When did South China Sea become China's "core interest"?

[Viva_Viet]

That is two different things.

1, this is a country's internal political system, such as the Qing dynasty, he has a privileged system of Manchu, but he is still a Chinese dynasty.

2, you are ignorant of Chinese history of such element into the case (1265.10.15-1307.02.10), the second YUAN emperor, in the important central body, you see how many HAN?

时中书省平章政事任职两年以上者共有9人：不忽木、帖可、剌真、阿鲁浑萨理、赛典赤伯颜、八都马辛、阿里、梁德珪、段那海等，其中梁德珪为汉人，段那海族属不详，其他7人均属于色目人。中书右丞、左丞任职两年以上者有5人：何荣祖、杨炎龙、张九思、尚文、何玮，均为汉人，儒家派人物。参知政事中任职两年以上者共10人，其中汉人6人，出身蒙古、色目族的共4人。


Central Secretariat Pingzhang affairs office when more than two years, a total of nine people: do not neglect wood, posts can be, assassination true, Aru Sa muddy grounds, game Code Red Bayan, Badu Mahindra, Ali, LIANG Gui, Section That the sea, etc., which LIANG Gui Han Chinese, ethnic segment that the sea is unknown, the other 7 per capita are Semu. In the book Youcheng, Zuo Cheng has served more than five years: He Rongzu, Yangyan Long, Zhang Jiusi, Shang Wen, He Wei, are Han Chinese, the Confucian school figures. Shenzhizhengshi to serve more than two years a total of 10 people, including six Han Chinese, Mongolian origin, color eyes family of four.

3, because there is a policy of ethnic discrimination, the YUAN was overthrown by the people, but it does not matter and if the YUAN Dynasty of China.

1. Manchu was all annexed by CHina, but Mongol still exist, how can you consider Mongol history is your ?? Does Mongol history accept Kublai Khan is CHina emperor ??

btw: Japan emperor in WW2 was CHina emperor also ??

 

[huzihaidao12]

To be honest, Vietnam paid tribute to China only to be able to live in peace and not be bullied and invaded by Chinese.
It could hardly be viewed as a vassal state when China did nothing to help Vietnam in fighting against the Siam or the Cambodian militarily, economically or diplomatically. That one-direction relationship should not be called "vassal". Being a vassal state means that you have to pay tribute and then get a full protection-package from your responsible boss.

To be honest, apart from a few times, the China really do not care about Vietnam, even if it has a tribute, but China also paid back to you.

---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 PM ----------

1. Manchu was all annexed by CHina, but Mongol still exist, how can you consider Mongol history is your ?? Does Mongol history accept Kublai Khan is CHina emperor ??

btw: Japan emperor in WW2 was CHina emperor also ??

Who told you exist as a system of Mongolia? Why do we say YUAN is a part of Chinese history? Because, YUAN only with China's system, such as the official governance system \ examination, the development of agriculture rather than livestock.

 

[Viva_Viet]

To be honest, apart from a few times, the China really do not care about Vietnam, even if it has a tribute, but China also paid back to you.

Don't care ?/ so why CHinese keep fleeing to VN to seek for protection ?

Who told you exist as a system of Mongolia? Why do we say YUAN is a part of Chinese history? Because, YUAN only with China's system, such as the official governance system \ examination, the development of agriculture rather than livestock

Check again the map, Mogol emperor control the vast land, not only China.They're influence by many culture.

 

[huzihaidao12]

As I told before, please show some official maps of Chinese government as the map I have given in my post. These vague writings do not make much sense. I know that Chinese have a good traditional to produce map for all of their territory. If Chinese empire considered these islands as a part of the country it should include them in the map.

If you want a clear record of all the islands, it is impossible, but that there is a record in the area, for example, MING Dynasty, "Miles Changsha" This is a generalization of the ocean and all the islands. And in some records where there are clear records of a number of important islands, Chinese scholars have detailed research, there is sufficient proof.

---------- Post added at 04:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------

http://img.blog.163.com/photo/38hk0fDsbymcG3NAbZ5r7g==/863002278595560409.jpg

Don't care ?/ so why CHinese keep fleeing to VN to seek for protection ?


Check again the map, Mogol emperor control the vast land, not only China.

Your information is wrong, your map also.


http://img.blog.163.com/photo/0cZKjYubVJAs46SZ9Johyw==/859061628921120253.jpg
---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------

It is ridiculous to use a foreign map, you can not use YUAN own maps?

---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

Don't care ?/ so why CHinese keep fleeing to VN to seek for protection ?

I'm not too concerned about what you have in the history of education, but you better have self-knowledge.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Your information is wrong, your map also.

Wrong ??CHeck again the link form the map bro, it have the ancient map also.

The English translation of the catalogue notes on this 700 year old map are reproduced below (thanks to James Fletcher for translating) ......



"Originating in Korea in the mid 1300s, this map is based on two works, one of which gives the pronunciation of the place names, the other gives the distances.



In 1368 these two maps were brought to Korea, where in 1402 they were combined into a single map. How the map got to Japan is unknown.



There are only two examples of this combined map in existence. The one in this exhibition was 'discovered' in 1988 in the Honko-ji Temple on the peninsula of Shimbara. It's the later of the two, probably from 1470ish.



The map shows the massive territory of the Mongolian empire and also the region of economic influence beyond its borders. In the centre is China as the heart of the Mongolian Yuan Dynasty

The map also shows that the Empire of the Mongols was the first international society in human history, a 'borderless culture'."
.

http://www.paradoxplace.com/Insight...s/Mongol_Images/Korean Map/Korean-Map-BAR.jpg


DOn't lie on History, bro
2. I can not see your link.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Wrong ??CHeck again the link form the map bro, it have the ancient map also.

http://www.paradoxplace.com/Insight...s/Mongol_Images/Korean Map/Korean-Map-BAR.jpg


DOn't lie on History, bro
2. I can not see your link.

You read that the ancient Chinese Writing on the map? It is the Chinese language, not the Mongolian language. That is YUAN territory, TANG is also a great territory than now.

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------

Why can not paste pictures?

 

[Viva_Viet]

You read that the ancient Chinese Writing on the map? It is the Chinese language, not the Mongolian language. That is YUAN territory, TANG is also a great territory than now.

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------

Why can not paste pictures?

1. VN also used China writting during ancient time, Nothing form VN belong to CHina
2. You means this pic ?? Oh, Mogol still dominated CHina, took some Korea land also ,.
and we don't see islands in SCS(east sea)

 

[huzihaidao12]

1. VN also used China writting during ancient time, Nothing form VN belong to CHina
2. You means this pic ?? Oh, Mogol still dominated CHina, took some Korea land also ,.
and we don't see islands in SCS(east sea)

It was different, because Vietnam has a long history of influence in Chinese culture, but Mongolia is just a short-term, and why to use the Chinese language, it is not self-esteem? It is only to show, YUAN accepted the Chinese system, including China's language.

This is the English map, I do not know YUAN to use English, which is new.

 

[Viva_Viet]

It was different, because Vietnam has a long history of influence in Chinese culture, but Mongolia is just a short-term, and why to use the Chinese language, it is not self-esteem? It is only to show, YUAN accepted the Chinese system, including China's language.

This is the English map, I do not know YUAN to use English, which is new.

1. SO, he had same purpose with VN, used CHina writting untill find a better writting systerm.

2. Kublai did not patrol those islands, he sent Naval forces to fought against Java kingdom in Spratly, and failed. Those islands never belong to him.Check again the first map with yelloow color, it's had naval battle in Spratly in 1293.

In 1293 near the end of his reign, Kublai launched a naval expedition against the Javanese kingdom of Majapahit, but the Mongol forces had to withdraw after considerable losses.

Read more: Kublai Khan Biography - life, history, son, information, born, house, achievements Kublai Khan Biography - life, history, son, information, born, house, achievements

 

[huzihaidao12]

1. SO, he had same purpose with VN, used CHina writting untill find a better writting systerm.

2. Kublai did not patrol those islands, he sent Naval forces to fought against Java kingdom in Spratly, and failed. Those islands never belong to him.Check again the first map with yelloow color, it's had naval battle in Spratly in 1293.

According to your logic, China and Vietnam are the same, because the Chinese also use Chinese characters, I say, it is different, such as Japan today still use Chinese characters, but anyone surprised? Those from long-term cultural exchange But if India suddenly announced that a Chinese official language, only a possible, China has occupied India (an assumption, not get excited, the Indian members). Mongolia is a grazing civilization, has its own language and system, he suddenly use the Chinese language just shows that he wish to inherit the power of ancient Chinese dynasties, using the official Chinese language and the use of China's various systems, YUAN emperor claiming he is a Chinese, a Chinese emperor, all together, it is enough to show YUAN is a China's ancient dynasties. It is different and Vietnam \ Korea \ Japan.

You need to come up with proof, YUAN Navy to launch military operations on Java, its goal is not the island, why do you think their goal is to islands, YUAN attack the island? Out your evidence, not even think to muddle through, although you have tried times.

 

[Viva_Viet]

According to your logic, China and Vietnam are the same, because the Chinese also use Chinese characters, I say, it is different, such as Japan today still use Chinese characters, but anyone surprised? Those from long-term cultural exchange But if India suddenly announced that a Chinese official language, only a possible, China has occupied India (an assumption, not get excited, the Indian members). Mongolia is a grazing civilization, has its own language and system, he suddenly use the Chinese language just shows that he wish to inherit the power of ancient Chinese dynasties, using the official Chinese language and the use of China's various systems, YUAN emperor claiming he is a Chinese, a Chinese emperor, all together, it is enough to show YUAN China's ancient dynasties. It is different and Vietnam \ Korea \ Japan.

You need to come up with proof, YUAN Navy to launch military operations on Java, its goal is not the island, why do you think their goal is to islands, YUAN attack the island? Out your evidence, not even think to muddle through, although you have tried times.

1. He said that to cheat all Chinese, infact he still Mongol, and when Yuan dynasty falled, Mogol retreatd back to their home land and refused to lived with Han.

The Yuan remnants retreated to Mongolia after the fall of Yingchang to the Ming in 1370, where the Yuan Dynasty was formally carried on, and is known as the Northern Yuan. According to Chinese political orthodoxy, there could be only one legitimate dynasty whose rulers were blessed by Heaven to rule as Emperor of China (see Mandate of Heaven), and so the Ming and the Northern Yuan denied each other's legitimacy as emperors of China, although the Ming did consider the previous Yuan which it had succeeded to be a legitimate dynasty. Historians generally regard Míng Dynasty rulers as the legitimate emperors of China after the Yuan Dynasty, though Northern Yuan rulers also claimed to rule over China, and continued to resist the Ming under the name "Yuan" or "Northern Yuan."[27]

Yuan Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. So, Pratly did not belong to Yuan emperor, and CHina gain Nothing form those islands now .

 

[huzihaidao12]

1. He said that to cheat all Chinese, infact he still Mongol, and when Yuan dynasty falled, Mogol retreatd back to their home land and refused to lived with Han.


Yuan Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. So, Pratly did not belong to Yuan emperor, and CHina gain Nothing form those islands now .

You do not have the right to decide, in fact, every Chinese emperor deceived that his rights from God, he is only a statement of power over, true or false is not important, China is not a concept of race, he is a cultural concept, so YUAN is a Chinese dynasty. Mongols would have fled the northern part, because they were defeated, although he deserved for their corrupt rule, which is a force, that is war, you expect?

You need to give your evidence, not some simple arguments.

Need I remind you, China's history is not limited YUAN? Starting from the HAN, almost every dynasty has recorded in the South China Sea, beginning from TANG, have a clear record for the South China Sea within the territory of China. YUAN only one dynasty, after which, MING and QING also clearly recorded in the governance and management of china in the South China Sea.

 

[huzihaidao12]

By the way, YUAN's last emperor, Yuan Shundi, although fled to the north, but still feel sad to leave his country and his hometown, which is also a historical record.

 

[Star√ation]

@huzihaidao12 @Viva_Viet: you will soon realize that any debate about the sovereignty over the South China Sea would be fruitless.
Chinese and Vietnamese members knew that months ago. So, if you are a newcomer, find old threads and read them instead of digging out all of these stuffs.

 

[huzihaidao12]

@huzihaidao12 @Viva_Viet: you will soon realize that any debate about the sovereignty over the South China Sea would be fruitless.
Chinese and Vietnamese members knew that months ago. So, if you are a newcomer, find old threads and read them instead of digging out all of these stuffs.

think I have an old debater, but some members of Vietnam always need I repeat over and over again, why?