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When Charlie Hebdo Denied Freedom of Expresion to its Cartoonist

[QUOTE="Akheilos, post: 6637115, member: 141155"

I never said about allowing...what are you 12 yr old? I just said common sense makes one not draw up something they dont know! Guess you lack that sense...No problem it isnt very common in people!
It does matter life is all about gains! People gain money for bashing Islam...its a fact![/QUOTE]

I am sorry - but picturing how the earth was thousands of years ago,
sketching how dinosaurs might have looked like
picturing air waves/electricity/magnetic waves

are all something we dont know how they look/work
but its perfectly within common sense to "depict" them and work with them. If its not for you, we differ in our opinions.
 
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Hey, I did not call those particular journalists the light towers of freedom nor do I actually like their works (far too leftist for me) but they were eventually ordered by a court to pay Sine a compensation of 40,000 Euros for firing him, which was indeed a mistake.
Their problem not mine...it came back to bite...
Now whether you want to criticize Muhamed or Sarkozy is entirely YOUR decision and if you do not agree with somebody elses choice on this, you can criticize him as well or simply make your own cartoons or try to express your views in any other civilized and lawful way. Thats the great thing about democracy.
Its not about me or if I agree or not....By analyzing why something happened doesnt automatically make it my problem! I am a scientist...I have a brain, it works 24/7 and picks things and analyzes them...thats human nature nothing to thank democracy about!


Then please explain it further for all non Muslims
I did...Every time I explain something you paint me in with it! Objectivity is apparently not taught in India :unsure:
 
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I never said about allowing...what are you 12 yr old? I just said common sense makes one not draw up something they dont know! Guess you lack that sense...No problem it isnt very common in people!
It does matter life is all about gains! People gain money for bashing Islam...its a fact!

1.) If people would not draw up things of which they dont know.... well we would live in a completely different world by now.
All the innovations, artistic master pieces, the huge amount of fictional works in literature, cinema etc etc ... seriously, I could go on for pages -_-

2.) Again, their choice. People can have different opinions on gain. For some it lies in expressing their feelings and opinions in artistic works. And if they want to criticize, they got every right to do so!
 
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I am sorry - but picturing how the earth was thousands of years ago,
sketching how dinosaurs might have looked like
picturing air waves/electricity/magnetic waves

are all something we dont know how they look/work
but its perfectly within common sense to "depict" them and work with them. If its not for you, we differ in our opinions.

1.) If people would not draw up things of which they dont know.... well we would live in a completely different world by now.
All the innovations, artistic master pieces, the huge amount of fictional works in literature, cinema etc etc ... seriously, I could go on for pages -_-

Yes, but for each and everything you have mentioned...you need a medium...bones for your dinosaurs, devices to read signals from waves, electricity and so on...

What's their medium for drawing muhammad's caroons? a turban with a bomb?
2.) Again, their choice. People can have different opinions on gain. For some it lies in expressing their feelings and opinions in artistic works. And if they want to criticize, they got every right to do so!
I did...Every time I explain something you paint me in with it! Objectivity is apparently not taught in India :unsure:
 
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and its in the same region that he gets the right to speech "rights" being upheld and gets a payment for being denied it in the first place.

I would like to see Salman Rushdie getting that treatment up there in any of the Peaceful country!

The guy got killed over having different opinions. This has got to stop and no justification can be possible. stop maligning him for the sake of scoring brownie points.

This was actually a win for freedom of speech. Talk about what half-baked news can do to people.
 
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Some people here seems to don't get that it was a satire newspaper,and really simply a joke.
They were criticizing all religions,politics etc.

dude , its nothing to make fun of , obviously there are tons of good Muslims living in France , look at the dead Police officer he was a Muslim too, who died protect french people , why cant your Govt or your own peoples stand against this ? making fun of any religion is offensive , those Cartoon will make few peoples laugh and make 1.5 billion Muslim hurt their feeling ... just for some Dollar we humans are ready to hurt the sentiment of billions , i wont mind that too , lets label whole world as Radicals , we are all radicals...

in the Above discussion almost every member is condemning the killings, but thing is people is west need to understand , you have freedom of Speech and Expression keep it yourself, your country is not run by Muslim there is no need to Drag Prophets in cheap jokes, and what for ?? just to get some Publicity , they are just marketing stunts , some goes worse ....
not every human been is same and Polite ... some react sensibly and some react with violence .. For french peoples it not a new thing that they dont know if they are making fun of Prophet there wont be any reaction , obviously they know cause we have seen such incidents in Past , if i know that a bottle contains poison ,than its not wise to still drink from it. ..

again ... no one is saying that killing those Cartoonist was a wise action and etc blah blah blah ... but both parties neeed to understand the sensitive of this matter ... and here we are again watching same Insulting cartoon all over the EU, so this is not going to end like this .. if you dont care about muslims and our prophet , than dont drag them to your magazines ...
 
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The 2 billion are free to choose not to see the cartoon or anything that they think offends them. They have no right to tell me what I choose to read or publish.

Than why the hypocrisy? a few dozen mil jews can chose to not watch,read or hear some guy denying holocaust? why jail the guy who denies that?
 
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See thats where your religious beliefs interfere with the law. Do you think that any self respecting modern state would put the "moral value" of a person who lived 1,400 years ago above the invaluable life of a living human?!
No but they should put morals before allowing the death of their own civilians by giving them "power" (freedom) where they know not the price of it!

Everything has laws, rules...Why is freedom left alone? Yet it is drawn in when Jews are concerned even saying someone converting to a Jew can be taken to court :rofl: Still dont see the hypocrisy then we def are on a different plane!

OP disagrees with this...They were only spurring hate!

Thats their choice and none of my business just like they are dead and AGAIN it has nothing to do with me or my religion...Their choice...their consequences!

RIP is all I can say

Yupp i am guilty of swinging in their circle of bipolarism and I do behave like them. Now they are killed because of the way they behaved, I should be executed too.. Are you passing my execution order or you need to go higher up? May be check with Allah, if he wished those people dead or would wish others dead for the crime of drawing picture of the prophet of his? I am sure he is so helpless that he needs you folks to sort out issues which he should be looking into otherwise.
I have reported you ...simply coz you cant seem to stick to the topic and are extreme in your pov

Why are you mad ...cant swallow truth maybe you should be thread banned!

The 2 billion are free to choose not to see the cartoon or anything that they think offends them. They have no right to tell me what I choose to read or publish.
And that's exactly what they are doing minding their own business but even that bugs the world...when we condemn its not enough...100 scholars openly write how such mentality of random killing is haram, it is still not enough, when people disregard Anjem Ch it is still not enough! What do you want us to do ? Why arent the West doing anything like stop putting people with no degree in Islam (Anjem Ch) as some important figure! You guys pick your own fights (you dont ask us if we want Anjm up there on CNN, We already dont read your magazines) and then when it blows in your face we are to blame? How is that fair?

And those people have serious issues understanding the concepts of personal freedom as well...
says the one who cant call hypocrisy for what it is :tsk:
 
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Her own pov is extremist and she is calling others POV extreme. Cant tolerate a joke stop acting like mad people. The more you do it , the more people will make fun of you, your people, your religiob or the first or the last prophets. Deal with it!!
 
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If Islam prohibits people to depict Mohamed, why on Earth should people who dont believe in it be forced to do so as well?! :hitwall: Especially in a secular nation that puts emphasis on personal freedom?
Islamic law prohibits you from drawing a pic of Mohamed, right? So if you force somebody else in a free nation to not draw a picture of him, isnt that forcing him to accept your religious views?
If you dont like what somebody says, you can argue with him in a peaceful manner. But you cant stop him from doing so.

Dude, i hate to say it but i partially agree with you. Our holy prophet stopped us from drawing or painting him because he didnt want anyone to worship him as an idol. What we were seeing today is extremism. The holy prophet would never allow anybody to be killed just because they insulted him or his religion. There are countless occasions in his lifetime to justify this(like the women who threw trash on him everyday and when she got sick the holy prophet went to her house and looked after her). Do they(extremists) seriously expect us to believe that the man who thought that even taking one life was a toll on humanity wanted us to kill people because they drew a picture of him and not because of the purpose he stopped us from?

But never the less any and every government should stop hate speech and racism from being promoted no matter how much freedom of speech they posses, as this will help co existence and promote peace.
 
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Freedom of expression means that people should not be legally persecuted or violently attacked for what they believe. This does not mean what you say has no consequences whether in your social life or your professional one. Media in the Muslim world routinely says much worse things about Christians, Jews, Hindus, Israel, India, the West, Shiites, Sunnis etc every day and nobody violently responds to it.
Brunei bans Christmas
Brunei bans Christmas over fears that public celebrations could 'lead Muslims astray' | Daily Mail Online
 
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Her own pov is extremist and she is calling others POV extreme. Cant tolerate a joke stop acting like mad people.
Calling a wrong a wrong is not extremism! It is this behaviour of the West being OVERLY righteous which has caused a plague to kill

The inability to use your own brain and calling a wrong a wrong is what is causing all the decay! If you call THAT extremist then you are pathetic and strangling your own freedom !!


The topic here is their hypocrisy! Cant point a wrong as a wrong maybe you should stay out of such threads!
The more you do it , the more people will make fun of you, your people, your religiob or the first or the last prophets. Deal with it!!
I dont care what they say...Its your fear of what they say coz you are warning me against human apparently you are afraid of (simple projection psychology)...No one can stop one from calling a spade a spade ESP when they are hiding behind hypocrisy!

As for your lack of understanding SHOW ME ONE POST where I have said they did right! JUST 1 POST! If you cant show then please taking your accusation drama elsewhere!

Freedom of expression means that people should not be legally persecuted or violently attacked for what they believe. This does not mean what you say has no consequences whether in your social life or your professional one. Media in the Muslim world routinely says much worse things about Christians, Jews, Hindus, Israel, India, the West, Shiites, Sunnis etc every day and nobody violently responds to it.
Brunei bans Christmas
Brunei bans Christmas over fears that public celebrations could 'lead Muslims astray' | Daily Mail Online
They are atleast not hiding behind the secular curtain and say/ show what they are!

They dont brag to preach freedom and then back down when it comes to Jews, Judaism or anything along those lines as OP has shown!


I am not saying they are doing the right thing BUT at least they are not hypocrisy! You have a cure and can object to what they are doing...Its your choice! But to argue with a hypocrite who does something but if same thing happens to them they hide behind freedom of expression as in the case of religious drawings vs the son of the president being said to convert to Judaism (How is that more offensive than drawing cartoons?)
 
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Charlie Hebdo shootout: Assuaging bigots is not the answer

Yesterday’s terror attack at the offices of the magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris that killed 12 people, mostly cartoonists and journalists, felt extremely personal. People were killed because they caused offense. The job of the media is to cause offense. If we aren’t offending someone, somewhere on some issue – we possibly aren’t doing our job.



Is the price of offending nutcases, death? How far do you hold your silence? Who all are you supposed to be scared of? Can you really blaspheme against a religion you don’t follow? If you don’t believe in God, or you don’t believe in the story of the origin of the universe in terms of religious reference points, if you don’t believe in a ‘One God’ theory and are joyfully polytheistic, if you like beef, if you laugh at idols, if you question the Virgin Birth, if you don’t believe that Prophet Mohammed is the last prophet— are you committing blasphemy or going against religious beliefs? What if they are not your religious beliefs? Are you supposed to follow the religious dogma of religions you don’t follow? And why?

There is this extreme religious fundamentalist arrogance that looks at the world and expects it to be reordered as per the dictates of someone’s interpretation of a ‘holy book’. And the reason the term holy book is in quotes is that there is no one holy book for all the people, and there never will. Every time, we give in to any section of population whose sentiments are ‘hurt’ by some depiction or the other, we are not just giving up on the essence of religion, but the essence of a Secular Democratic Republic. The job of the State is not to assuage offended egos, and self appointed guardians of morality, religion and God, but to protect the rights of the individual whose right to express and expression is threatened.

The ruling against the representation of the Prophet was to prevent idolatry (which is considered to be taboo in Islam). However, when people, who are neither followers of Islam nor of any religion, are killed by terrorists for physically depicting the Prophet, this is the most primitive form of idolatry behaviour possible. A human sacrifice to an angry God. No God, no religion asked for this. Self appointed guardians of religion, who are possibly borderline psychopaths, are setting the agenda and expect the rest of the universe to follow out of fear.

Expecting people who do not follow a faith to follow the taboos of a faith is not just nonsensical, it also interferes with other people’s freedom to religion of their choice. I have been hearing voices on social media, op-ed pieces in respected newspapers on how restraint is needed in expression. This piece from the Financial Times especially hit hard--

299832-charlie-ft-screenshot.jpg


Financial Times later changed this to a version that did not include the word stupid. Actually, Charlie Hebdo is not being stupid. They are exercising their freedoms.

There was an inexplicable quote by a woman I really admired as a school girl, Kiran Bedi -

France Terror-Shoot-Out sends a message: why deliberately provoke or poke? Be respectful and civil. Don't hurt people's sensitivities!"

Why provoke is a good question but maybe a better question is why do some people get provoked while most of the world doesn’t. And, why are we supposed to give up our freedoms for these whiny, attention grabbing types? And how long do we live in fear, and for what all?

We live in a world where anything can cause offense. The fact that you eat meat can cause offense to a vegetarian; the fact that you as a woman demand control on your body may cause offense to an orthodox religious type; the fact that you interpret the scriptures can cause offense to those who believe in a comic book version of the religion. There is no end to those who get offended and throw a hissy fit that says ‘pay attention to me and my views, I am important’.


Every time we give in to buy peace, we forget one thing – peace cannot be purchased. And peace purchased to assuage the anger of a psychopath carrying a gun, is temporary fragile peace. You will do something else tomorrow to offend him and cause him to raise the gun again. This is not about religion. This is about domination of all spaces in society and making them comply with a twisted vision of reality.

It needs to stop now. Peshawar and Paris are the clarion calls to stop appeasing bigots of all shades. And, finally I will end with a quote attributed to Charab – the cartoonist who was murdered yesterday by terrorists-

"I am not afraid of retaliation. I have no kids, no wife, no car, no credit. It perhaps sounds a bit pompous, but I prefer to die standing than living on my knees."

Charlie Hebdo shootout: Assuaging bigots is not the answer | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
 
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i just want to ask on question.

How did the Charlie Hedbo people a bigot? Because they are french?

First not to discuss whether or not banning antisemitism and holoclaust is an bigot act, let just say it is, then it was the French Government who's the bigot?

Charlie Hedbo, like every French citizens and organisation required to follow the rules of France, so, is following law of their own country make them a bigot? I mean, this is not charlie hedbo rules that they can only insult anything but jews and holoclaust, right?

Charlie Hedbo would still be sue if they had published anti holoclaust and antisemitism cartoon, and if they do and not get sued, then you can call them a bigot...
 
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