Whats PAF thinking ?

[DarX]

M telling you IAF will get F-16's by 2022

Nothing in the IAF gets done this quickly. They took 15 years to order only 36 Rafales in an off-the-shelf deal. And we are talking about setting up a whole new production line for the F-16s. You should think more like 2042 for the first commissioning date.

 

[Glass]

what a lot of people forget is that pakistan will most likely be in a better economic situation in 2025 so i would also take that into account. Good discussion so far

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Nothing in the IAF gets done this quickly. They took 15 years to order only 36 Rafales in an off-the-shelf deal. And we are talking about setting up a whole new production line for the F-16s. You should think more like 2042 for the first commissioning date.

Ok Then we should sleep as usual nothing to worry here
They gonna select Gripen or F-16 and m again saying F-16 it's gonna be

 

[Trisonics]

If you keep emotions aside, thre are only two reasons here:

1) No Money

2) By deliberately reducing conventional power, the chance of a nuclear confrontation is higher.

In my view point 2 is where Pakistan is concentrating it's resources on. That explains why we see more news on their missile systems. Conventionally, Pakistan is no match for the Indian might. Then why spend on anything more than minimum defense? when nukes have a bigger chance of a war not happening?
Other than hurt egos of some fan boys, point 2 makes complete sense to me.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

M telling you IAF will get F-16's by 2022

That just means You got no clue.
Decision is 2021, and that means years until the production line completes any aircraft.
2024-2025 much more likely.

 

[The SC]

I want to ask whats PAF thinking ? how much time they will take to decide to go for another platform like 4 or 4.5 Gen aircrafts ? how much time PAF will take to watch the moves of IAF ? you just cant sit Idle.

just take a look at what will we have after 10 to 12 years :

after 10 to 12 years, we will have most likely 250 (100 with AESA and 150 Non-AESA) JF-17 Thunders only.

F-16 Blk 40/50/C/D will start to retire as Jammer bhayya said in some other thread.

and if we go for the 5th Gen option NOW, thn we will have some 40 to 50 J-31.

so what we will have in our inventory is :

250 Jf-17s
40 or 50 J-31 (probably).

so we are going to miss some 100 or 150, 4.5th Gen aircrafts. i really like the Jf-17 project and i know it will be a potent interceptor/defence fighter. but you just cant pitch JF-17 against with every aircraft of IAF.

as we will going to replace F-16s in 10 to 12 years we have to choose our option NOW.
like Turky is going to replace its F-16s with its TFX project.
thn why PAF isnt thinking about this ?

I have read the news on internet and i have read it somewhere in PDF also few months ago that MoD have told the senate that PAF needs 40 to 50 latest aircrafts, so i am assuming its 4.5th Gen.

after that, its all silence. no words from anywhere. all i hear on PDF is that PAF is on the Wait and Watch mood. becoz India is still have to replace there old jets.

what i want to know that, IAF just started to negotiate with other countries (like Rafales, Gripens etc ), thn whats PAF doing now ?


the options we have in the market for 4.5th Gen aircraft:

Su-35 ( Russia, not gonna happen)
Typhoon ( good option but to much expensive )
J-10s (with AESA) is the only option we have.

i know that PAF is not intrested in J-10s after JF-17s production, but you cant compare the both.

J-10s are superior to Jf-17 in every aspect except AESA factor.
J-10s have 11 Hard points. its bigger and with AESA Radar it will be badder for enemies.


J-31, its still mystery , dont know how much chinese bros are intrested in this project.
but even if we have to go for 5th Gen option thn we have to choose it NOW. i dont understand why PAF is waiting to take decision as if they have some other options are available.

i dont find any other option available for 5TH GEN aircraft for PAF :

F-35 (forget it)
PAK-FA ( russian-indo project)
Turkish TFX ( no offense but its still on drawing board )
J-31 is the only option we have.

india is going to get 36 Rafales for IAF and 50 for navy, and are looking for F-16 Blk 70 or Gripen NG.
forget Rafales or F-16s/Gripen. they also have larger fleet of other aircrafts.

I dont believe that PAF have any financial issues for going for Chinese aircrafts option.
if we start NOW thn we will have some formidable defence in 10 to 12 years :

250 Jf-17s
100 to 150 J-10s
40 to 50 J-31s.

Now this looks doesnt bad for PAF, or does it ?

PAF also stated that it has a 5th generation project.. one should take that into account too..

Sir , i dont doubt JF-17 capabilities , its a potent fighter with defence POV, but it has its own limits, just like any other jets, it cant be pitch against air superiority fighter jets etc etc. untill or unless we produce 500+ units of JF-17s with AESA in Swarm Mode.

also what about when we will retire the F-16s fleet ? so what we gonna pitch against the IAF 4.5th Gen fighters ?

the 5th Gen jets like J-31s are good, but if we gonna buy it, thn it cant be more thn 40 to 50 Units. becoz 5th Gen platform is expensive.

so still, we will be missing some 4.5th Gen fighter Jet in that scenario.

The J-31 won't be that expansive if produced locally like the JF-17, an order of 100 or more will make the price revolve around $40 to $50 million, barely the price of the latest Mig-35 or the J-10C today..

Let me guess , you "sources" told you so?
What happened to the Su 35 deal which you said was happening?

Well, Sudan is getting it, the UAE and Egypt are getting it, not all of them are traditional customers of Russian weapons.. the UAE example makes it clear that it is a question of money.. cash to be exact..

 

[Muhammad Omar]

That just means You got no clue.
Decision is 2021, and that means years until the production line completes any aircraft.
2024-2025 much more likely.

Well at least they signed the MoU with US Lockhead Martin
no news about Saab Gripen no talks no MoU no delegation visit

 

[Trango Towers]

If you keep emotions aside, thre are only two reasons here:

1) No Money

2) By deliberately reducing conventional power, the chance of a nuclear confrontation is higher.

In my view point 2 is where Pakistan is concentrating it's resources on. That explains why we see more news on their missile systems. Conventionally, Pakistan is no match for the Indian might. Then why spend on anything more than minimum defense? when nukes have a bigger chance of a war not happening?
Other than hurt egos of some fan boys, point 2 makes complete sense to me.

the two points may make sense to you but here is a reminder.

1. tea at Lahore gymkhana
2. we stopped the biggest tank assault after ww2

we were no match for india even then.

never ever underestimate your enemy. he may surprise you.(ICC 2017 winners)

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Well at least they signed the MoU with US Lockhead Martin
no news about Saab Gripen no talks no MoU no delegation visit

The rules says that the partner should be presented before the end of 2017.
We are only half-way.
You do not know who SAAB is talking to.

Sweden had the largest stand in the Make in India exhibition last year,
and a large delegation headed by the Prime Minister participated.
That was followed up by a government minister visiting Modi in November,
where Modi was looking for an agreement on cooperation between Sweden and India
on defense matters.
Modi called our Prime Minister right before his trip to the US a few weeks ago,
thanking Sweden for its support for Make in India, and encouraged further contacts.
SAAB will not lose this deal on such issues.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

The rules says that the partner should be presented before the end of 2017.
We are only half-way.
You do not know who SAAB is talking to.

Sweden had the largest stand in the Make in India exhibition last year,
and a large delegation headed by the Prime Minister participated.
That was followed up by a government minister visiting Modi in November,
where Modi was looking for an agreement on cooperation between Sweden and India
on defense matters.
Modi called our Prime Minister right before his trip to the US a few weeks ago,
thanking Sweden for its support for Make in India, and encouraged further contacts.
SAAB will not lose this deal on such issues.

Ok let's wait then

 

[lovepakaramy]

PAF is thinking and planning new things and soon people will hear good news

Not again please Zarvan bhai.

 

[Zarvan]

Not again please Zarvan bhai.

PAF will give you supurises just like news of 3 more AWACS came as supurises

 

[Beethoven]

PAF will give you supurises just like news of 3 more AWACS came as supurises

Zarvan bhai can you tell us something about the aircrafts that are being looked at by the PAF as possible options????

 

[litman]

it is very unlikely that india will ever dare to cross the border and launch a full scale or limited war against pakistan. rafale will be inducted by 2019-20 and it will take few more years for the IAF to master them. meanwhile paf 's main stay will be F-16 and JFT . by 2020 we can exoect induction of some fifth gen jet to counter the iaf. there is no urgency right now. war is almost impossible . india is not afraid of our conventional weapons they are afraid of nukes which we have in numbers along with the delivery platforms.

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan bhai can you tell us something about the aircrafts that are being looked at by the PAF as possible options????

Options till now are open but we are thinking big and thinking about it for sometime let't hope for the best.