Whatever

[jamahir]

@CatsDelhi, interesting name. Please explain.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

@Naofumi, @Cliftonite, @Nilu Pule, @fisher1, @W.11, @letsrock, @Avicenna,

Please, do you have anything to say on this?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-do-you-deal-with-losing-interest-in-enthusiasm-for-life.587131/

- PRTP GWD

 

[Naofumi]

@Naofumi, @Cliftonite, @Nilu Pule, @fisher1, @W.11, @letsrock, @Avicenna,

Please, do you have anything to say on this?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-do-you-deal-with-losing-interest-in-enthusiasm-for-life.587131/

- PRTP GWD

Purpose of life, huh???

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Purpose of life, huh???

Not purpose man. Enthusiasm. I am not enjoying like I used to despite trying everything.

- PRTP GWD

@Naofumi, @Cliftonite, @Nilu Pule, @fisher1, @W.11, @letsrock, @Avicenna,

Please, do you have anything to say on this?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-do-you-deal-with-losing-interest-in-enthusiasm-for-life.587131/

- PRTP GWD

Not purpose man. Enthusiasm. I am not enjoying like I used to despite trying everything.

- PRTP GWD

@jamahir Forgot to tag you.

- PRTP GWD

 

[Naofumi]

Not purpose man. Enthusiasm. I am not enjoying like I used to despite trying everything.

- PRTP GWD

You have plateaued, simply not trying enough new things.

 

[jamahir]

Not purpose man. Enthusiasm. I am not enjoying like I used to despite trying everything.

Get yourself on the path to make yourself influential in the political and business worlds. Getting to that goal will take a lot of planning and it will change your life. It is a very interesting thing. I am doing it myself.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

 

[Avicenna]

@Naofumi, @Cliftonite, @Nilu Pule, @fisher1, @W.11, @letsrock, @Avicenna,

Please, do you have anything to say on this?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-do-you-deal-with-losing-interest-in-enthusiasm-for-life.587131/

- PRTP GWD

Sounds like you may relate.

I know I have.

We've all been there.

How old are you?

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

@Naofumi, @Cliftonite, @Nilu Pule, @fisher1, @W.11, @letsrock, @Avicenna,

Please, do you have anything to say on this?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-do-you-deal-with-losing-interest-in-enthusiasm-for-life.587131/

- PRTP GWD

@Reichmarshal

- PRTP GWD

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

@Cliftonite How are you? When did you tested positive? Did you had symptoms?

 

[Naofumi]

Out of curiosity : Do Punjabis migrated from India practice clan exogamy? Those from Haryana or Himachal?

Broader question : When did Muslim Punjabis lost clan exogamy? @Joe Shearer

I am asking this because some Haryanvi Muslims still practice clan exogamy like Hindus but Muslims elsewhere rarely do so.

@Joe Shearer you know about this? I mean the loss of clan exogamy due to Islamic influence..

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer you know about this? I mean the loss of clan exogamy due to Islamic influence..

Yes, but I didn't want to comment; Muslims, especially Pakistani Muslims, think they know all about Indian/South Asian sociology and correcting them is not easy; I'd rather stick a knitting needle in my eye.

This clan exogamy is known as gotra among caste Hindus (it doesn't exist elsewhere). The Jats have been in the news most often about gotra, thanks to their damned khap system; khaps are gotra-based panchayats, with wide powers of corporal or even capital punishment (needless to say, with no legal sanction whatsoever). How it works is that I, from Kashyap Gotra, may not marry anyone else from Kashyap Gotra; but I may marry a Dhanvantari or a Maudgalya or any other, all within the Vaidya/Baidya caste. Each caste has its own set of gotras; names might be held in common; so, Kashyap is found among Brahmins. The system works the same.

Now, when individuals, families or whole clans are converted, they lose caste, hence they lose gotra. There is then no more restriction in marrying outside the gotra. However, what tends to happen is that even though converts have lost caste and gotra, they tend to marry within the former caste, treating it like a tribe. So a Muslim Bhatti will try to marry another Bhatti, but not to any kind of rigid extent; it becomes a preference, not a rule. A Muslim Jat will try to marry another Jat, but it's not a big deal. Among Muslims and among Sikhs, anyone can marry anyone else. Having said that, the preference thingy can get extreme; so a Jat Sikh doesn't get married to a Khatri or to a Mazhabi. Some Khatri families are valued and distinguished above others, since they are descended to one or the other Guru, and Jats have no problem marrying into those.

Very broadly, the gotra and the caste are gone, only the memories of the caste remain as a tribal identity (quite bogus, par dil ko behlane ke liye), and people marry within their tribe. No formal restriction, however. Nor among the Sikhs.

 

[Naofumi]

This clan exogamy is known as gotra among caste Hindus (it doesn't exist elsewhere).

No, I have seen even Chamars practicing gotra-exogamy - even Dalits have gotras. I believe all North Indian Hindus practice it.

they lose caste, hence they lose gotra.

They don't lose it actually both khaps and other functions remains. Interestingly, Haryanvi Meos still practice it! I believe it may be due to Hindu influence or say less penetration of Islam, on another note, Islamic rulers and elites had prevalent cousin-marriage system which was copied by converts - cousin marriage directly negates gotra exogamy.

Yeah, this was one of the "good" feature of our civilisation, it's a natural defence against consanguineous marriages...

So a Muslim Bhatti will try to marry another Bhatti, but not to any kind of rigid extent; it becomes a preference, not a rule. A Muslim Jat will try to marry another Jat, but it's not a big deal. Among Muslims and among Sikhs, anyone can marry anyone else. Having said that, the preference thingy can get extreme; so a Jat Sikh doesn't get married to a Khatri or to a Mazhabi. Some Khatri families are valued and distinguished above others, since they are descended to one or the other Guru, and Jats have no problem marrying into those.

I believe most sociologists describe this as full-fledged caste system, I remember watching a documentary on the Sikh one.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No, I have seen even Chamars practicing gotra-exogamy - even Dalits have gotras. I believe all North Indian Hindus practice it.

I didn't know that. I know several 'noboshakha' castes who don't have it.

They don't lose it actually both khaps and other functions remains. Interestingly, Haryanvi Meos still practice it! I believe it may be due to Hindu influence or say less penetration of Islam, on another note, Islamic rulers and elites had prevalent cousin-marriage system which was copied by converts - cousin marriage directly negates gotra exogamy.

The Meos are a special case and inspired the Tableegh e Jamait originally.

Yeah, this was one of the "good" feature of our civilisation, it's a natural defence against consanguineous marriages...


I believe most sociologists describe this as full-fledged caste system, I remember watching a documentary on the Sikh one.

Interesting. I didn't know some of this. Must go and find a textbook on it.

 

[Naofumi]

I didn't know that. I know several 'noboshakha' castes who don't have it.

That's weird, so they practice any kind of exogamy or cousin marriages are allowed??

The Meos are a special case and inspired the Tableegh e Jamait originally.

Do Haryanvi Ranghars or Muley Jat practiced it (who are in Pakistan BTW), I guess not because UP Ranghars don't do too..