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Whatever

Where's your Wehrmacht series?
Soon soon :P
I am more OK with the person who disagree my opinion than the one who share my thought.
But only if they do it in respectful manner if they're gonna start their post with low level of personal attacks than what kher chlo choro is behes ko :P
 
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That i agree. But afterall, this is a bloddy online forum where everyone is faceless and no matter who says what at the end , nothing matters. Cyber bullying do exist as well as trolling, but we are not kids to be afraid from them. I am more OK with the person who disagree my opinion than the one who share my thought. As that way i end the debate by “live with it”. Very easy

To be honest, I don't see why people insult the religion of others. This bothered me before, it continues to bother me now.

The second thing is insults levelled at someone's family or kin. Really avoidable.

The third (these are not in any particular order) are attacks on personal integrity, especially of Pakistanis saying something against what some Pakistani fan-boy thinks is the gold standard for patriotism for Pakistanis, or of Indians saying something against what some Indian bhakt thinks is the gold standard for patriotism for Indians.

The only push-back (NOT a solution) is for remarks violating these boundaries to be quietly deleted. I don't know how that can be done.
 
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Most of UK and European monarchy for hundreds of years are all.interrelated and progeny of cousin unions.

WWI was fought between first or second cousins as I recall.

Cheers, Doc

Yeah but thats the let them have cake elite....they've always been royally (scuse the pun) messed up.
 
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I'd rather that people thought of 'Indic' religions and of 'Indic' theologies separately. Look at it this way:
  1. Three distinct religions, united by their derivation from references in the Vedas, that don't belong to any one of them but to all three; these three, worship of Vishnu, worship of Siva and worship of Shakti, HAVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT methodologies for achieving salvation. That is a strong argument for considering them distinct religions.
  2. These three, Vaishnavism, Saivism and Shakti-worship, are within what is known as Hinduism, but there is also the other three, Buddhism, Jainism and, in parts, Sikhism.
  3. Within these three, there are different ways of speculating about the nature of divinity: Advaita (monism), Visishtadvaita and Dvaita; these are particularly strong in the south, although they have huge influence all over India. If you want, the nature of these speculations can be elaborated separately, not here, not now.



YOU are a ****-***-*******.
Where's your Wehrmacht series?

Yes this conversation on forum itself undulates like the utterance of aummmmmmmm. There is always some Bangladeshi member (who grows fond of me and vice versa) that asks this kinda "question" every year...and I have to figure out how best to give an answer without too much deja vu for my sake.
 
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To be honest, I don't see why people insult the religion of others. This bothered me before, it continues to bother me now.

The second thing is insults levelled at someone's family or kin. Really avoidable.

The third (these are not in any particular order) are attacks on personal integrity, especially of Pakistanis saying something against what some Pakistani fan-boy thinks is the gold standard for patriotism for Pakistanis, or of Indians saying something against what some Indian bhakt thinks is the gold standard for patriotism for Indians.

The only push-back (NOT a solution) is for remarks violating these boundaries to be quietly deleted. I don't know how that can be done.


A person use abuses and insulting religion when he is out of logic and facts. Every such post directed at you is your victory in that particular debate.
 
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Soon soon :P

But only if they do it in respectful manner if they're gonna start their post with low level of personal attacks than what kher chlo choro is behes ko :P

Now you're making me nervous. My humour is not always understood, and far less often than that is it appreciated. Some of my closest friends have taken serious exception to this sense of humour and seem to be on the verge of suggesting surgical removal of the offending propensity - cutting out the funny bone is what they actually said.

A person use abuses and insulting religion when he is out of logic and facts. Every such post directed at you is your victory in that particular debate.

But it is so grossly uncivil. I can't get this, just can't. It's NOT on emotional grounds, it's on the grounds of how we deal with day-to-day interactions with other human beings. It isn't polite!

I'm being quite serious.

Soon soon :P

Waiting eagerly for it to begin....hope you will let me ad lib on it from time to time....

But only if they do it in respectful manner if they're gonna start their post with low level of personal attacks than what kher chlo choro is behes ko :P

I suppose you have not really chatted all that much with Bharwana....sigh....most ppl that havent dont "get it"...

That's true. Not much. Impressions I have is of an earnest young man with an unswerving patriotism that sometimes makes him come across a little tunnel-visioned.
 
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Fundamentalist. :angry:

Cheers, Doc

@Nilgiri I hope you won't mind my doing it in parts. I am sorry that I am not feeling ready to convey it in one writing for the time being, real life got disturbed by sudden sad demise of a young friend. It wasn't his time but that's the reality, we can't do much to reverse it or prevent it. Mine will come too.

However, I had promised to write so here is my attempt, I hope it makes some sense. It is simple my own personal account so you won't find any references to any historical writings and works.

Before I start.

Please Note
I don’t intend to offend anyone, any ethnicity, any religion any sect, any people, or preach anyone, readers may agree or disagree it’s totally up to them. So I will appreciate that no one takes this personally and tries arguing with me on those lines, I won’t change my views. And being a follower of Islam I firmly believe that every human on this earth should be free of subjugation, oppression, exploitation of any kind (monetary as well as non monetary) so he / she has the time and freedom to think himself and form his own independent opinions and make his own choices and decisions without any undue influence. Further personally I believe that in Islam Quran is the only true word of ALLAH (the God, the Al Mighty), rest of the literature and books have been written by ordinary humans, hence are subservient to Quran and open to thorough check and validation, if those traditions, stories, history contradict with Quran they are not Islam, and I don't accept any justification for existence of any sect, whether you call them schools of thoughts or differing views, they remain sects, and there is no place for any division in Islam. (This is the area where it all went wrong, a parallel man made religion constructed over centuries to avenge Islam and defame Islam ...... whether you agree or not 99.9% of criticism of Islam is because of these men made and written books).

Having said that I will start by trying to first answer the illogical blame that gets put on Islam, People were converted to Islam at the sword tip aka forceful conversions. There are many recent and historical examples where one can study and conclude what percent of people will surrender to any forceful conversion (the invading oppressor), what percent would resist it, what percent would flee and the ones who have been forcefully converted, how long they are going to stay loyal. For example take Rohingya, the poor helpless people, how many of them converted to Buddhism to get their lives spared? Yazidis in Iraq, they got killed, made sex slaves, some forced to convert ..... but what is their current status, do they accept it or despise it? Kashmiris, honestly won't majority Indians be happy and their lives become easy if they get converted to Hinduism? Why don't they? Afghanistan that country gets bombed every now and then, do they leave their religion despite being the poorest nation on the face of this Earth? British India, Mughal India ........ how come after all these many invasions Hindus are almost billion plus, China how it was left majority Atheists? Sikhs, Christians and Muslims in these areas and region no matter whatever form of religion they are practicing they tend to be loyal and faithful .... how come generations of forcefully converted people remain loyal and faithful? Bosnia would disagree. Look at Iran, they say it was majority Sunni and it became Shiite, and now they say that 70% want to convert back to Zoroastrianism ..... why they converted to being Shiite and why (if there is any truth to it) wish to convert to Zoroastrianism ..... would any authoritative rule be able to stop them if that is case?

These are just simple examples which I present to you to think and consider, you can convert hundreds and thousands forcefully but you cannot convert the whole generations and keep them loyal. Any neutral unbiased person shouldn't find it hard to agree with.

Moving forward ...... where is the source of or motivation for forceful conversions, it has to be documented a Divine order ..... else it is human not Religion. So

Is there any verse of Quran or Divine commandment in Quran, that orders Muslims to forcefully convert others?

None. Instead Quran clearly mentions "To you your religion, for us our's", "Why don't you think, why don't you see, why don't you listen", "The ones who don't agree leave them" ....... these are some extracts of how Quran speaks about it ....... But then how it all happened? How come the numbers increased and why Muslim armies marched into different regions (Early Muslim expansion only)?

How it happened initially.
You know for any sensible normal human or millions of humans, to convert or to change to anything, it has to be something superior in thought, purpose, service, betterment, ideology and rewards .......... and its a given that any existing system that has been proven inferior, that system and its strict adherents would feel threatened by any superior ideology / system. That is why revolutions happen(ed), because people get fed up with continuous subjugation and slavery of systems, because people want things to change for better ....... and in one similar superstitious, humanely backward society, that is where Islam the last Divine interference / instruction / guidance / help originated, It shook and threatened the core of a superstitious society where treating humans like animals was routine. Islam was (and is) a threat because its true teachings focus primarily on freedom of humans, Islam not only guaranteed freedom and rights for humans (both men and women) but also animals. And that was (is) not acceptable by Kings/ Lords/ Masters/ Oppressors/ Exploiters, Capitalists and Clergy (anywhere in any form). If you are a normal human like many others and not some wealthy capitalist, a prince or some high priest enjoying authority and rule over many ..... you would want freedom from all these three ......... and that freedom came in form of Islam. Reason why it gathered so much support and followers in short span of time ..... those common people witnessed the system of equality and justice brought by Islam, the concept of State looking after its citizens, the freedom of having a say and to think and freely express ..... if this wasn't the case, Islam would have died centuries ago.

Why they invaded other territories

Do I really need to ask what do you think or feel when you hear our dear doc called "Hendi", when you see an ordinary common Indian's image being posted here and made fun of and subliminally every Indian and Pakistani told that you are inferior ugly weaklings? Or even today you must hear and read that "lizard eating people" insult thrown at Arabs ... It's not a surprise for me because Doc's ancestors were 100 times more arrogant, rude, insensitive and proud, They had the king, they had the Clergy, they had the rich wealthy capitalists ......... the result common people resented them, they felt exploited, oppressed, overburdened, subjugated and humiliated. You can ask doc he still boasts how they ruled and kept my people in check for centuries ......... and their mistake? They couldn't timely understand that once those lizard eating desert dwellings had been reformed and changed they had seen how it feels like to be treated as a free human .... they believed and practiced a belief system where every human was free with equal rights, and that it is their duty to ensure that. So when they (Persians) were politely told to look after those poor and helpless and don't make their lives miserable ....... their baby king replied "Go back to your desert and we will look after your clothing and will feed you" .... the height of ignorance and failure to be humble. The result, divine duty to come to the rescue of helpless (its very clearly given in Quran, if one studies permission in Quran for war). Now doc may disagree and say that we came after their land and wealth, we killed and raped, destroyed their once civilisation .... but can he answer why only a handful of them fled and why majority remained behind despite there were no borders to restrict their movement .... why it was a common Persian who killed their king and not some desert dwelling Arab ............ can an occupier remain there forever without support and willingness of local populace? (Today's Afghanistan and mighty USSR and USA). If everything got destroyed then how come doc so conveniently displays an old Persian flag, how come they celebrate all their past festivals? Ask doc what he thinks of you if you could become someone equal to him and ask me ...... only this response can make you understand why it all happened. For him blood matters, for me human of any blood color or race can join me and become better than me. Our fight remains the fight for free humanity, there never was anything against their land their religion, their beliefs ..... I hope you won't see me ever making fun of his beliefs or criticizing his beliefs in anyway. Instead why I support him, because he is minority now, whereas if what majority think of my religion, I should be at the front line totally wishing for his non existence. And I happen to be the weakest Muslim possible.

This is my try at the introduction ......... containing some questions. Next I will try to write something to inform you of how Doc's ancestors after fleeing got their revenge and how it all started to go wrong for us.
 
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I just think BD deserves lot better than BAL or BNP....these two should not be the choices and playing their games with each other to get sympathy from the people they abuse again and again in the end.

So responsibility lies on BD people to create something better in the end....rather than say it was better/worse from one of these parties...and that keeping one as lesser evil etc for stability sake is long term acceptable. I mean @Mage and others already saying if SHW is gone, thats it for BAL, they will be chased out of the country and fully purged. Like I don't think that will happen so quickly at all (and the time spent in that delaying will cost a whole lot...almost civil war like probably)....but can you imagine how bad this is for country of 170+ million people to even be building up such now?

This is why I don't think people should be making "for the greater good" argument to allow political party cheat to stay in power (or just establish itself as the only power to begin with)....because if people need to learn things hard way but have their voices heard at least in process....so be it! You need to give people that choice...if you always staple it and glue it forever so they can't do that....you only make it worse down the road....and even much more blood and tears will be spilled then (or in many ways worse... a slow decline like china into this moral laziness). It is catch 22 situation unfortunately...I say BD its not too late, not even close...but something has to give soon (say in the next decade).

@bluesky @Skies
SHW, as it seems is not looking for a dynastic rule. She could have easily established her son in politics by now. But she keeps him away. If not now then when? Hasina is getting old too. She won't have the level of control she has now, in the future.

One party situation for BD is nothing new. There wasn't any alternative to BAL when Awami league was formed. But BAL was purged after 1975 and there wasn't any alternative to BNP during Zia's time. Both were autocratic rulers. So was Ershad. BD was pretty much one party rule from 1971-1991. Although there were three parties that ruled in separate times. You can say BD enjoyed some form of democracy from 1991 to 2014...Even in that time BNP tried to establish one party rule in 1996. And BAL eventually did that in 2014. The reason BAL didn't try it in their 1996-2001 term, that time they were a weak majority in parliament. They could not have gotten 2/3rd support in any way.

People had the option to get rid of the two witches back in 2008....but the problem is both parties BAL and BNP did some good work and build up a large loyal support base by 2008. So people could not think beyond those two to rule the country. People at least Bangladeshis doesn't think about politics much. Or even their thinking is one dimensional. Awami League was responsible for liberation of Bangladesh. Sheikh Hasina is the daughter of Mujib. Vote for Awami League. Zia saved the country from BAKSAL. Khaleda Zia is his wife. Vote BNP. We are Muslims. Vote Jamaat or Ersahd is better than two main parties. Vote Ershad.

People doesn't care about their policies or what they actually do. It's not far fetched to call it democracy of illiterates. Awami league with the autocratic nature is destroying their soft support. And this way in the future, only hardcore Awami league supporters will support them. Average public will turn away. When Sheikh Hasina loses grip it will be the end for them. And even if it may be the end, it's still hard to see anyone other than BNP's Tareque Zia as a replacement. Will it be better? I don't know. A civil war is what I fear as the worst case. But I think someone or some party will emerge as replacement before it gets this worse. Remember, there were no civil war back in 1975. Zia survived a coup in and swiftly took charge crushing every obstacles.
 
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But it is so grossly uncivil. I can't get this, just can't. It's NOT on emotional grounds, it's on the grounds of how we deal with day-to-day interactions with other human beings. It isn't polite!

I'm being quite serious.

Well such abuses also used to hurt me but then i just started avoiding abusers.
I dint wanted anyone to abuse me so i ensured two things. (After writing them i found its 3, not 2)

1. I dont drag him in a cursing competition.

2. I dont fall in a cursing competition.

3. Asses the situation, personality and previous track record of the person you are engaging and set boundries for yourself as per that individual’s frame of reference or Should i say “mental level”.

I put these steps into working and Al-hamdulillah its going well.
 
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That's true. Not much. Impressions I have is of an earnest young man with an unswerving patriotism that sometimes makes him come across a little tunnel-visioned.

He also delights in having tomato farmer as his first identity, as I explained to dubious earlier:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/whatever.46703/page-5132#post-11081326

I have bantered much with him....and when I bring up his lack of economics knowledge in some way...he cheerily chides me (to put a poignant ironic witty point across right back at me) he is simply just a tomato farmer...( yet goes toe to toe with me etc is what I think he's getting at) :P

It is really just a friendly bit of fun, so it can seem maybe rude to others not in the know....I brought it out of the blue in that thread starting out...so I guess I didn't really think all that through....given there are lot of negative rating worthy stuff that goes unchallenged here to begin with.
 
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@Nilgiri I hope you won't mind my doing it in parts. I am sorry that I am not feeling ready to convey it in one writing for the time being, real life got disturbed by sudden sad demise of a young friend. It wasn't his time but that's the reality, we can't do much to reverse it or prevent it. Mine will come too.

However, I had promised to write so here is my attempt, I hope it makes some sense. It is simple my own personal account so you won't find any references to any historical writings and works.

Before I start.

Please Note
I don’t intend to offend anyone, any ethnicity, any religion any sect, any people, or preach anyone, readers may agree or disagree it’s totally up to them. So I will appreciate that no one takes this personally and tries arguing with me on those lines, I won’t change my views. And being a follower of Islam I firmly believe that every human on this earth should be free of subjugation, oppression, exploitation of any kind (monetary as well as non monetary) so he / she has the time and freedom to think himself and form his own independent opinions and make his own choices and decisions without any undue influence. Further personally I believe that in Islam Quran is the only true word of ALLAH (the God, the Al Mighty), rest of the literature and books have been written by ordinary humans, hence are subservient to Quran and open to thorough check and validation, if those traditions, stories, history contradict with Quran they are not Islam, and I don't accept any justification for existence of any sect, whether you call them schools of thoughts or differing views, they remain sects, and there is no place for any division in Islam. (This is the area where it all went wrong, a parallel man made religion constructed over centuries to avenge Islam and defame Islam ...... whether you agree or not 99.9% of criticism of Islam is because of these men made and written books).

Having said that I will start by trying to first answer the illogical blame that gets put on Islam, People were converted to Islam at the sword tip aka forceful conversions. There are many recent and historical examples where one can study and conclude what percent of people will surrender to any forceful conversion (the invading oppressor), what percent would resist it, what percent would flee and the ones who have been forcefully converted, how long they are going to stay loyal. For example take Rohingya, the poor helpless people, how many of them converted to Buddhism to get their lives spared? Yazidis in Iraq, they got killed, made sex slaves, some forced to convert ..... but what is their current status, do they accept it or despise it? Kashmiris, honestly won't majority Indians be happy and their lives become easy if they get converted to Hinduism? Why don't they? Afghanistan that country gets bombed every now and then, do they leave their religion despite being the poorest nation on the face of this Earth? British India, Mughal India ........ how come after all these many invasions Hindus are almost billion plus, China how it was left majority Atheists? Sikhs, Christians and Muslims in these areas and region no matter whatever form of religion they are practicing they tend to be loyal and faithful .... how come generations of forcefully converted people remain loyal and faithful? Bosnia would disagree. Look at Iran, they say it was majority Sunni and it became Shiite, and now they say that 70% want to convert back to Zoroastrianism ..... why they converted to being Shiite and why (if there is any truth to it) wish to convert to Zoroastrianism ..... would any authoritative rule be able to stop them if that is case?

These are just simple examples which I present to you to think and consider, you can convert hundreds and thousands forcefully but you cannot convert the whole generations and keep them loyal. Any neutral unbiased person shouldn't find it hard to agree with.

Moving forward ...... where is the source of or motivation for forceful conversions, it has to be documented a Divine order ..... else it is human not Religion. So

Is there any verse of Quran or Divine commandment in Quran, that orders Muslims to forcefully convert others?

None. Instead Quran clearly mentions "To you your religion, for us our's", "Why don't you think, why don't you see, why don't you listen", "The ones who don't agree leave them" ....... these are some extracts of how Quran speaks about it ....... But then how it all happened? How come the numbers increased and why Muslim armies marched into different regions (Early Muslim expansion only)?

How it happened initially.
You know for any sensible normal human or millions of humans, to convert or to change to anything, it has to be something superior in thought, purpose, service, betterment, ideology and rewards .......... and its a given that any existing system that has been proven inferior, that system and its strict adherents would feel threatened by any superior ideology / system. That is why revolutions happen(ed), because people get fed up with continuous subjugation and slavery of systems, because people want things to change for better ....... and in one similar superstitious, humanely backward society, that is where Islam the last Divine interference / instruction / guidance / help originated, It shook and threatened the core of a superstitious society where treating humans like animals was routine. Islam was (and is) a threat because its true teachings focus primarily on freedom of humans, Islam not only guaranteed freedom and rights for humans (both men and women) but also animals. And that was (is) not acceptable by Kings/ Lords/ Masters/ Oppressors/ Exploiters, Capitalists and Clergy (anywhere in any form). If you are a normal human like many others and not some wealthy capitalist, a prince or some high priest enjoying authority and rule over many ..... you would want freedom from all these three ......... and that freedom came in form of Islam. Reason why it gathered so much support and followers in short span of time ..... those common people witnessed the system of equality and justice brought by Islam, the concept of State looking after its citizens, the freedom of having a say and to think and freely express ..... if this wasn't the case, Islam would have died centuries ago.

Why they invaded other territories

Do I really need to ask what do you think or feel when you hear our dear doc called "Hendi", when you see an ordinary common Indian's image being posted here and made fun of and subliminally every Indian and Pakistani told that you are inferior ugly weaklings? Or even today you must hear and read that "lizard eating people" insult thrown at Arabs ... It's not a surprise for me because Doc's ancestors were 100 times more arrogant, rude, insensitive and proud, They had the king, they had the Clergy, they had the rich wealthy capitalists ......... the result common people resented them, they felt exploited, oppressed, overburdened, subjugated and humiliated. You can ask doc he still boasts how they ruled and kept my people in check for centuries ......... and their mistake? They couldn't timely understand that once those lizard eating desert dwellings had been reformed and changed they had seen how it feels like to be treated as a free human .... they believed and practiced a belief system where every human was free with equal rights, and that it is their duty to ensure that. So when they (Persians) were politely told to look after those poor and helpless and don't make their lives miserable ....... their baby king replied "Go back to your desert and we will look after your clothing and will feed you" .... the height of ignorance and failure to be humble. The result, divine duty to come to the rescue of helpless (its very clearly given in Quran, if one studies permission in Quran for war). Now doc may disagree and say that we came after their land and wealth, we killed and raped, destroyed their once civilisation .... but can he answer why only a handful of them fled and why majority remained behind despite there were no borders to restrict their movement .... why it was a common Persian who killed their king and not some desert dwelling Arab ............ can an occupier remain there forever without support and willingness of local populace? (Today's Afghanistan and mighty USSR and USA). If everything got destroyed then how come doc so conveniently displays an old Persian flag, how come they celebrate all their past festivals? Ask doc what he thinks of you if you could become someone equal to him and ask me ...... only this response can make you understand why it all happened. For him blood matters, for me human of any blood color or race can join me and become better than me. Our fight remains the fight for free humanity, there never was anything against their land their religion, their beliefs ..... I hope you won't see me ever making fun of his beliefs or criticizing his beliefs in anyway. Instead why I support him, because he is minority now, whereas if what majority think of my religion, I should be at the front line totally wishing for his non existence. And I happen to be the weakest Muslim possible.

This is my try at the introduction ......... containing some questions. Next I will try to write something to inform you of how Doc's ancestors after fleeing got their revenge and how it all started to go wrong for us.

Very sorry about your friend bhai. I lost my best friend exactly a year ago. The pain and loss does not go away.

Also, you have completely misunderstood the Aryan concept of blood and faith. Be it Zoroastrian or Dharmic. It's not about equality ....

Cheers, Doc
 
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Very sorry about your friend bhai. I lost my best friend exactly a year ago. The pain and loss does not go away.

Thanks and I remember you had told me.

Also, you have completely misunderstood the Aryan concept of blood and faith. Be it Zoroastrian or Dharmic. It's not about equality ....

Can every and each human be Aryan? And how people look at being Aryan and in what context it gets used? I am sure it always carries that being superior tone to it. doesn't it?

Equal humans are above the petty identities and distinctions ...... they don't really care then.
 
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@Nilgiri I hope you won't mind my doing it in parts. I am sorry that I am not feeling ready to convey it in one writing for the time being, real life got disturbed by sudden sad demise of a young friend. It wasn't his time but that's the reality, we can't do much to reverse it or prevent it. Mine will come too.

However, I had promised to write so here is my attempt, I hope it makes some sense. It is simple my own personal account so you won't find any references to any historical writings and works.

Before I start.

Please Note
I don’t intend to offend anyone, any ethnicity, any religion any sect, any people, or preach anyone, readers may agree or disagree it’s totally up to them. So I will appreciate that no one takes this personally and tries arguing with me on those lines, I won’t change my views. And being a follower of Islam I firmly believe that every human on this earth should be free of subjugation, oppression, exploitation of any kind (monetary as well as non monetary) so he / she has the time and freedom to think himself and form his own independent opinions and make his own choices and decisions without any undue influence. Further personally I believe that in Islam Quran is the only true word of ALLAH (the God, the Al Mighty), rest of the literature and books have been written by ordinary humans, hence are subservient to Quran and open to thorough check and validation, if those traditions, stories, history contradict with Quran they are not Islam, and I don't accept any justification for existence of any sect, whether you call them schools of thoughts or differing views, they remain sects, and there is no place for any division in Islam. (This is the area where it all went wrong, a parallel man made religion constructed over centuries to avenge Islam and defame Islam ...... whether you agree or not 99.9% of criticism of Islam is because of these men made and written books).

Having said that I will start by trying to first answer the illogical blame that gets put on Islam, People were converted to Islam at the sword tip aka forceful conversions. There are many recent and historical examples where one can study and conclude what percent of people will surrender to any forceful conversion (the invading oppressor), what percent would resist it, what percent would flee and the ones who have been forcefully converted, how long they are going to stay loyal. For example take Rohingya, the poor helpless people, how many of them converted to Buddhism to get their lives spared? Yazidis in Iraq, they got killed, made sex slaves, some forced to convert ..... but what is their current status, do they accept it or despise it? Kashmiris, honestly won't majority Indians be happy and their lives become easy if they get converted to Hinduism? Why don't they? Afghanistan that country gets bombed every now and then, do they leave their religion despite being the poorest nation on the face of this Earth? British India, Mughal India ........ how come after all these many invasions Hindus are almost billion plus, China how it was left majority Atheists? Sikhs, Christians and Muslims in these areas and region no matter whatever form of religion they are practicing they tend to be loyal and faithful .... how come generations of forcefully converted people remain loyal and faithful? Bosnia would disagree. Look at Iran, they say it was majority Sunni and it became Shiite, and now they say that 70% want to convert back to Zoroastrianism ..... why they converted to being Shiite and why (if there is any truth to it) wish to convert to Zoroastrianism ..... would any authoritative rule be able to stop them if that is case?

These are just simple examples which I present to you to think and consider, you can convert hundreds and thousands forcefully but you cannot convert the whole generations and keep them loyal. Any neutral unbiased person shouldn't find it hard to agree with.

Moving forward ...... where is the source of or motivation for forceful conversions, it has to be documented a Divine order ..... else it is human not Religion. So

Is there any verse of Quran or Divine commandment in Quran, that orders Muslims to forcefully convert others?

None. Instead Quran clearly mentions "To you your religion, for us our's", "Why don't you think, why don't you see, why don't you listen", "The ones who don't agree leave them" ....... these are some extracts of how Quran speaks about it ....... But then how it all happened? How come the numbers increased and why Muslim armies marched into different regions (Early Muslim expansion only)?

How it happened initially.
You know for any sensible normal human or millions of humans, to convert or to change to anything, it has to be something superior in thought, purpose, service, betterment, ideology and rewards .......... and its a given that any existing system that has been proven inferior, that system and its strict adherents would feel threatened by any superior ideology / system. That is why revolutions happen(ed), because people get fed up with continuous subjugation and slavery of systems, because people want things to change for better ....... and in one similar superstitious, humanely backward society, that is where Islam the last Divine interference / instruction / guidance / help originated, It shook and threatened the core of a superstitious society where treating humans like animals was routine. Islam was (and is) a threat because its true teachings focus primarily on freedom of humans, Islam not only guaranteed freedom and rights for humans (both men and women) but also animals. And that was (is) not acceptable by Kings/ Lords/ Masters/ Oppressors/ Exploiters, Capitalists and Clergy (anywhere in any form). If you are a normal human like many others and not some wealthy capitalist, a prince or some high priest enjoying authority and rule over many ..... you would want freedom from all these three ......... and that freedom came in form of Islam. Reason why it gathered so much support and followers in short span of time ..... those common people witnessed the system of equality and justice brought by Islam, the concept of State looking after its citizens, the freedom of having a say and to think and freely express ..... if this wasn't the case, Islam would have died centuries ago.

Why they invaded other territories

Do I really need to ask what do you think or feel when you hear our dear doc called "Hendi", when you see an ordinary common Indian's image being posted here and made fun of and subliminally every Indian and Pakistani told that you are inferior ugly weaklings? Or even today you must hear and read that "lizard eating people" insult thrown at Arabs ... It's not a surprise for me because Doc's ancestors were 100 times more arrogant, rude, insensitive and proud, They had the king, they had the Clergy, they had the rich wealthy capitalists ......... the result common people resented them, they felt exploited, oppressed, overburdened, subjugated and humiliated. You can ask doc he still boasts how they ruled and kept my people in check for centuries ......... and their mistake? They couldn't timely understand that once those lizard eating desert dwellings had been reformed and changed they had seen how it feels like to be treated as a free human .... they believed and practiced a belief system where every human was free with equal rights, and that it is their duty to ensure that. So when they (Persians) were politely told to look after those poor and helpless and don't make their lives miserable ....... their baby king replied "Go back to your desert and we will look after your clothing and will feed you" .... the height of ignorance and failure to be humble. The result, divine duty to come to the rescue of helpless (its very clearly given in Quran, if one studies permission in Quran for war). Now doc may disagree and say that we came after their land and wealth, we killed and raped, destroyed their once civilisation .... but can he answer why only a handful of them fled and why majority remained behind despite there were no borders to restrict their movement .... why it was a common Persian who killed their king and not some desert dwelling Arab ............ can an occupier remain there forever without support and willingness of local populace? (Today's Afghanistan and mighty USSR and USA). If everything got destroyed then how come doc so conveniently displays an old Persian flag, how come they celebrate all their past festivals? Ask doc what he thinks of you if you could become someone equal to him and ask me ...... only this response can make you understand why it all happened. For him blood matters, for me human of any blood color or race can join me and become better than me. Our fight remains the fight for free humanity, there never was anything against their land their religion, their beliefs ..... I hope you won't see me ever making fun of his beliefs or criticizing his beliefs in anyway. Instead why I support him, because he is minority now, whereas if what majority think of my religion, I should be at the front line totally wishing for his non existence. And I happen to be the weakest Muslim possible.

This is my try at the introduction ......... containing some questions. Next I will try to write something to inform you of how Doc's ancestors after fleeing got their revenge and how it all started to go wrong for us.

Thanks for putting your views so clearly and for taking the time bud. Much appreciated.
 
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