Whatever

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Are there any lessons that Pakistan can learn from China in the way that it is dealing with radicalism in Xinjiang, to be applied within Pakistan?

Do you think a reverse is also possible i.e Pakistani policies exercising control in Xinjiang?

The way I see it is development in both China and Pakistan would infect bring them closer...Those who would seem to be more religious would come down to Pakistan, narrowing the cultural divide would eventually over the years diversify Chinese thinking.


@FaujHistorian @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @levina

 

[VCheng]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Are there any lessons that Pakistan can learn from China in the way that it is dealing with radicalism in Xinjiang, to be applied within Pakistan?

Do you think a reverse is also possible i.e Pakistani policies exercising control in Xinjiang?

The way I see it is development in both China and Pakistan would infect bring them closer...Those who would seem to be more religious would come down to Pakistan, narrowing the cultural divide would eventually over the years diversify Chinese thinking.


@FaujHistorian @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @levina

All relationships are two way streets, so yes, China may need to learn its lessons from Pakistan too, wherever applicable.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The biggest obstacle would be religion; while China is a communist country, Pakistan is an Islamic republic. A little cogitation indicates that Pakistan would have a tough time executing laws to counter radicalism the way it was countered in China. But the Pak. govt can for sometime take a "few" undemocratic steps and curb rise of dissidents on its soil.
One thing's for sure that its high time Pak.Govt displayed the will to sanitize the country completely, just as @Rain Man quoted.

@levina Do you think with Prosperity terrorism can be eradicated?

To eradicate evil one has to reach the root cause...If one is able to find it becomes easier to find the solution. The issue with radicalisation can be solved by two things one is education and poverty. In a communist country poverty is eradicated so only education remains the issue which can be solved...

 

[VCheng]

The biggest obstacle would be religion; while China is a communist country, Pakistan is an Islamic republic. A little cogitation indicates that Pakistan would have a tough time executing laws to counter radicalism the way it was countered in China. But the Pak. govt can for sometime take a "few" undemocratic steps and curb rise of dissidents on its soil.
One thing's for sure that its high time Pak.Govt displayed the will to sanitize the country completely, just as @Rain Man quoted.

@levina Do you think with Prosperity terrorism can be eradicated?

To eradicate evil one has to reach the root cause...If one is able to find it becomes easier to find the solution. The issue with radicalisation can be solved by two things one is education and poverty. In a communist country poverty is eradicated so only education remains the issue which can be solved...

The problem is NOT religion. Please be clear about this. The problem is the intermixing of matters of religion with matters of State. Nobody is saying to eliminate religion. That is a false tactic.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I am on record as a strong proponent of separating religion from matters of State in Pakistan. May be that is the most important lesson to contemplate here, given that China has no religion influencing State policies?

Sir, This is not as simple as it looks... Pakistan came into existence on the basis of religion. Most people in the world only think there are two types of systems Capitalist and Communist but in reality there are Three. The third is a mixture of these two which is very similar to Islamic System. Today no country is actually following this system for a very simple reason (internal divide amongst Muslims). This is causing different sects to come up with different concepts hence disagreement which unfortunately get out of control so all the states tend to avoid these by force. In Pakistan this was not the case hence what we see today is extremism because the state is confused on how to run as there is no system at all. If we consider the last 70 years of Pakistan's no political or dictator has ever tried to solve the issue of bringing the people together but have done the opposite.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Are there any lessons that Pakistan can learn from China in the way that it is dealing with radicalism in Xinjiang, to be applied within Pakistan?

Do you think a reverse is also possible i.e Pakistani policies exercising control in Xinjiang?

The way I see it is development in both China and Pakistan would infect bring them closer...Those who would seem to be more religious would come down to Pakistan, narrowing the cultural divide would eventually over the years diversify Chinese thinking.


@FaujHistorian @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @levina

China is using multiple policies. Some are very very drastic like demographic changes, new draconian laws that infringe on personal choices. etc.

I do not think our society and region can use the same approach at this stage.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The problem is NOT religion. Please be clear about this. The problem is the intermixing of matters of religion with matters of State. Nobody is saying to eliminate religion. That is a false tactic.

I know that is the reason I asked @levina the question because she had raised the question of religion.

 

[Levina]

@levina Do you think with Prosperity terrorism can be eradicated?
To eradicate evil one has to reach the root cause...If one is able to find it becomes easier to find the solution. The issue with radicalisation can be solved by two things one is education and poverty. In a communist country poverty is eradicated so only education remains the issue which can be solved.

Yes, possibly we might be able to reduce the number of ppl getting brainwashed by religious extremists. But look around, many ppl who are involved in terrorist activities like David Headley are not illiterates, such ppl 're educated and willingly join such organisations.
Few days back i had read @Irfan Baloch 's post where he had revealed that young teenagers these days got attracted to ISIS because they looked formidable and cool. Now what can you do to prevent teenagers from perceiving terrorists organizations as cool?? This is beyond me...
I seriously dont know if there's any solution to this gargantuan problem...but am keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

China is using multiple policies. Some are very very drastic like demographic changes, new draconian laws that infringe on personal choices. etc.

I do not think our society and region can use the same approach at this stage.

Sir, there is a broader reason behind Chinese policies...They do not want to show there is a divide in China because that has in the past caused them to loose their territory and history. For them the people living in any province of China should be considering the Communist ideas without second thoughts. This is the very reason the western states like the Turks have been invading and concurring parts of China. These Turkmen have always been considered an enemy of China, so today they have to find other ways to stop them because an all out war is not in the interest of China. This would show the world that China is week within.

Some time back on one of the TV channels of Pakistan there was a talk show in which there was a limited discussion to this issue was raised. There was some consideration given that Pakistan is considered by China to be an ideal candidate to solve this issue but for that they have to find some way to integrate the two. Hence today we see the China is heavily investing in both the areas.

Though the stage is not where one can walk over immediately but the first step towards integration.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Sir, there is a broader reason behind Chinese policies...They do not want to show there is a divide in China because that has in the past caused them to loose their territory and history. For them the people living in any province of China should be considering the Communist ideas without second thoughts. This is the very reason the western states like the Turks have been invading and concurring parts of China. These Turkmen have always been considered an enemy of China, so today they have to find other ways to stop them because an all out war is not in the interest of China. This would show the world that China is week within.

Some time back on one of the TV channels of Pakistan there was a talk show in which there was a limited discussion to this issue was raised. There was some consideration given that Pakistan is considered by China to be an ideal candidate to solve this issue but for that they have to find some way to integrate the two. Hence today we see the China is heavily investing in both the areas.

Though the stage is not where one can walk over immediately but the first step towards integration.

Bhai Jaan,

you don't have to "sell" me China's policies in this.

The original question was to see if Pakistan can use the same policies. And my answer is "No we cannot". It is a simple answer. I am not judging what China is doing or what it is not.

Thank you.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Yes, possibly we might be able to reduce the number of ppl getting brainwashed by religious extremists. But look around, many ppl who are involved in terrorist activities like David Headley are not illiterates, such ppl 're educated and willingly join such organisations.
Few days back i had read @Irfan Baloch 's post where he had revealed that young teenagers these days got attracted to ISIS because they looked formidable and cool. Now what can you do to prevent teenagers from perceiving terrorists organizations as cool?? This is beyond me...
I seriously dont know if there's any solution to this gargantuan problem...but am keeping my fingers crossed.

Well this is the power of Hollywood...Gun, bombs and brutality has been shown in such high percentage that the younger generation has forgotten the horrors, Infect they are immune and take pleasure... CNN, BBC etc showing footage of war coverage and the next day X-box or Play station games on the very subject are available to children aged 12 could only indicate that this a business. So one side wins and the other losses it is up to you to decide who you want should win. Looking at the Indian movie "RA one" we also see the same issue. Where is one supposed to go?

You would remember Tom and Jerry had episodes in which Tom is smoking a few years back they banned it because they want to discourage smoking...so why they are not doing same things movies, news and games.

 

[VCheng]

Sir, This is not as simple as it looks... Pakistan came into existence on the basis of religion. Most people in the world only think there are two types of systems Capitalist and Communist but in reality there are Three. The third is a mixture of these two which is very similar to Islamic System. Today no country is actually following this system for a very simple reason (internal divide amongst Muslims). This is causing different sects to come up with different concepts hence disagreement which unfortunately get out of control so all the states tend to avoid these by force. In Pakistan this was not the case hence what we see today is extremism because the state is confused on how to run as there is no system at all. If we consider the last 70 years of Pakistan's no political or dictator has ever tried to solve the issue of bringing the people together but have done the opposite.

The problems caused by mixing religion with State cannot be cured by "more" or "better" religion. This ideal Islamic State that many advocate simply does not exist. Religion is a personal matter, and that is where it should remain. Lack of this vital discipline extracts a heavy price from those violating it, as we can see.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Bhai Jaan,

you don't have to "sell" me China's policies in this.

The original question was to see if Pakistan can use the same policies. And my answer is "No we cannot". It is a simple answer. I am not judging what China is doing or what it is not.

Thank you.

Sir, my question was other way around as well...

 

[Spectre]

Well this is the power of Hollywood...Gun, bombs and brutality has been shown in such high percentage that the younger generation has forgotten the horrors, Infect they are immune and take pleasure... CNN, BBC etc showing footage of war coverage and the next day X-box or Play station games on the very subject are available to children aged 12 could only indicate that this a business. So one side wins and the other losses it is up to you to decide who you want should win. Looking at the Indian movie "RA one" we also see the same issue. Where is one supposed to go?

You would remember Tom and Jerry had episodes in which Tom is smoking a few years back they banned it because they want to discourage smoking...so why they are not doing same things movies, news and games.

Yes, possibly we might be able to reduce the number of ppl getting brainwashed by religious extremists. But look around, many ppl who are involved in terrorist activities like David Headley are not illiterates, such ppl 're educated and willingly join such organisations.
Few days back i had read @Irfan Baloch 's post where he had revealed that young teenagers these days got attracted to ISIS because they looked formidable and cool. Now what can you do to prevent teenagers from perceiving terrorists organizations as cool?? This is beyond me...
I seriously dont know if there's any solution to this gargantuan problem...but am keeping my fingers crossed.

Major reasons in addition to glamorization of violence in developed or relatively developed countries for prosperity terrorism are:

1. Disenfranchisement - The youth from minority community cannot integrate themselves with local population which leads to feeling of alienation and abandonment. They look for some place to belong too and this fact is often exploited by terrorist organizations. We have seen multiple cases of this in UK, France and Europe in general.

2. Racism - However we might love to deny it there is under current of racism in western countries where whites perceive themselves to be superior. In addition acts of terrorism has made them vary of Muslim youth in particular which further reinforces the feeling of alienation and abandonment among minorities. It's a vicious circle.

3. Propaganda and Logistics- Slick marketing providing a reassurance of brotherhood and camaraderie to these disaffected youths act as fuel to the fire. Well established networks makes it logistically possible to turn what have been just sympathies to the cause of terrorists to the acts of terrorism itself.

Just my two cents

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The problems caused by mixing religion with State cannot be cured by "more" or "better" religion. This ideal Islamic State that many advocate simply does not exist. Religion is a personal matter, and that is where it should remain. Lack of this vital discipline extracts a heavy price from those violating it, as we can see.

That is the next step after we determine if there is anything to learn in the first place.

Sir,
The concept of religion that you have is something I also believe in. However this is not how majority thinks.

The question still remains how to solve this problem? We can not change hearts of millions, so we have to find some sort of common grounds at which they could possibly agree.

Situation of Pakistan is such that it is going to ADAPT a system of governance but it can not simply adopt one from any existing systems. This was the reason a method was given in the Constitution 1973 but till date nothing constructive has been achieved due to lack of will and motivation.