What should be done to Increase Religious tolerance in Pakistan/ serious Discussion

[Dubious]

ro·man·tic
rōˈmantik,rə-/
adjective

of, characterized by, or suggestive of an idealized view of reality.
"a romantic attitude toward the past"


synonyms: idyllic, picturesque, fairy-tale; More
______________ idealistic, idealized, romanticized, unrealistic, fanciful, impractical;
______________ head-in-the-clouds, starry-eyed, optimistic, hopeful, visionary, utopian, fairy-tale

antonyms: practical, realistic



Time to learn a bit about the basic definitions.




@Talon

Allow me to update your statement


.Were we "realist/practical" about religion we would have stuck to proper Islam not to some deformed thing we want to call Islam.......

I know the meaning stop showing off and patronizing others! Thank you!

 

[liall]

That #6 post wow. Here is your answer OP post number 6.

 

[Dubious]

If Pakistan was renamed Republic of Pakistan today it would make no difference, the reason being the people have been made intolerant through the mosques and the mardrassahs and the Mullahs are the ones who spread the nonsense. Removing religion from government is great in fact I agree religion should not be in government but these Mullahs have no power in government today the only power they have is through their influence in mosques and mardrassahs. So how can the government solve the problem without getting involved in the matters of religion in Pakistan is beyond me. Even when Ataturk removed religion from government in Turkey he brought all mosques under the center and neuteured the Mullahs (different story he went overboard and started enforcing his views onto the people) first.

@Talon @Pakistanisage @LoveIcon @FaujHistorian

I agree the state has to be involved! Today the mosques are preaching whatever they want coz no one has control of what is going on! We dont have a center assembly keeping check of what is going on! so this is a big plus point and hence I was never for govt not being involved...That is already happening...

The only way Mullah are involved is in their brain washing ability! They say you dont do this you are not Muslim...You dont do that you are Kafir and whatever...Their tongue needs to be cut out! Seriously even Nabi didnt go and say to his chacha you are kafir and he was a Nbai while these Mullahs are nothing!

That #6 post wow. Here is your answer OP post number 6.

This is why I said Indians please exit the thread! Please stop derailing an on going discussion! Thank you!

I didn't get your point, what i highlighted was that problem of intolerance is not the invention of US - It started as soon as Prophet died.

Well it is not but it def was somehow fueled..Once upon a time one would go oh he is Shia or oh he is Sunni...Now they go He is Shia/ Sunni and out comes a gun...

I want to know what changed between that once upon a time and today!

1 thing which is obvious is that America said hello to Afghanistan and our stupid population and leaders agreed to whatever was said........so it is a possibility....that the training and brainwashing fueled what may or may not have happened...Maybe we would have gone down this road but not as aggressively nor as quickly!

Quran being incomplete is not my opinion - it's the excuse of sectarian people.

Then they should be slapped with that ayat and ignored as a leader!

Because you need a Strong Leader for that - Our Father was the Strongest there ever was & the one we needed the most - He died & subsequent Leadership hasn't been worth an iota of the Statesman he was !

Unfortunately Nations don't build themselves up & they most certainly don't solve their more pressing problems by themselves for that requires decades of social evolution with blood shed, hurt emotions, reactions & at times separation to rectify these problems.

Turkiye became the Great Republic that it is because of the vision & the blood & sweat of the Greatest of them all - Ataturk !

China became the Great Country she is because of the vision & the perseverance of Deng Xiaoping !

America survived terrible ruin because of someone like Lincoln !

We're stuck with the Khans, the Bhuttos & the Sharifs & the likes of them by other surnames for the past 65 years; the people won't change....they'd only display a sense of urgency, restlessness that, when not harnessed like it was in '47 to build a Nation out of nothing, will revert to some of their more primal instincts - Tribalism; no I don't mean FATA but the parochial us vs them demarcations on provincial, sectarian, ethnic, linguistic & class lines !

Ok...this is the political POV....and the sad state that change koi lai ga mein nai change houn ga

 

[Armstrong]

Ok...this is the political POV....and the sad state that change koi lai ga mein nai change houn ga

Okay !

 

[Dubious]

@Talon

Allow me to update your statement


.Were we "realist/practical" about religion we would have stuck to proper Islam not to some deformed thing we want to call Islam.......

Hence the Indian posters who were saying try not to take it seriously or dont this and that fails here automatically! And this is also 1 reason I told them to exit!

Next question...How to get someone excited about a religion which you yourself have shown phobia of?!

Okay !

Change happens from within....1 person can make a change....Look at Prophet Muhammad, Salah Uddin, Christian King, Aṣḥama ibn Abjar of Abyssina and so many others who were 1 man to bring in change...We also have Edhi...someone please learn his miracle magic!

 

[Armstrong]

Change happens from within....1 person can make a change....Look at Prophet Muhammad, Salah Uddin, Christian King, Aṣḥama ibn Abjar of Abyssina and so many others who were 1 man to bring in change...We also have Edhi...someone please learn his miracle magic!

Okay !

So Vote for Armstrong for the Presidency !

 

[Dubious]

Okay !

So Vote for Armstrong for the Presidency !

Putter thora bara ho ja phir sochain gay

 

[Armstrong]

Putter thora bara ho ja phir sochain gay

Well if I ever do get to be the President I'd be sure to have @Alpha1 declared as our National Mascot & yes of course he'd be made to wear the Cat Woman costume 24/7 !

 

[Dubious]

OK

so you buy a new Iphone (or Android).

And you cannot make a phone call or surf the net. Then it is obviously your INDIVIDUAL lack of understanding.

However if 1 billion people cannot make a phone call using a similar phone

Then

the problem is with the phone. and NOT the people.


Same thing with Sharia.

I just saw this....

Of the 1 billion exactly how many are literate?

Of the 1 billion exactly how many care about Islam rather than their personal pocket?

Of the 1 billion exactly how many even tried to bring in shariah?

Of the 1 billion exactly how many actually has a degree in Shariah?

Of the 1 billion exactly how many who have a degree are in decision making positions?

Of the 1 billion exactly how many who have a degree are in decision making positions and are not interested in their pockets?

When taking all these into consideration of the 1 billion not 1!

Hence, the phone is not problematic but the thing you have brought forward as a phone is not a telephone but brick painted to look like Nokia 1100...def wont call anyone!

This reminds me of the following joke No racism intended just found it as it was:

Sardar went to the appliance store sale and found a bargain.
"I would like to buy this small TV," he told the salesman.
"Sorry, we don't sell to SARDARs," he replied.
He hurried home removed his turban and changed his hair style, and returned
to tell the salesman "I would like to buy this TV."
"Sorry, we don't sell to Sardars," Salesman replied.
"Damn, he recognized me," he thought. he went for a complete disguise this
time, haircut and new hair color, new outfit, big sunglasses, then waited a
few days before he again approached the salesman.
"I would like to buy this TV."
"Sorry, we don't sell to Sardars," he replied.
Frustrated, he exclaimed "How do you know I'm a Sardar?"
"Because that's a microwave," he replied.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Next question...How to get someone excited about a religion which you yourself have shown phobia of?!
!

Please never ever put "excitement" in religion.

Thank you

 

[Dubious]

I know one Imam who went on Umrah with group of people and he used to conduct prayers in their hotel room not in Mosque --- Reason, Imams of the mosques there are wahabi and prayers behind them is not accepted. We have retards in every sect but it's always wahabis in spot light while other nuts are doing same type of things but nobody criticize them. If you want to deal with sectarian issue than you should take all the idiots into account not just wahabi.

1 example...Myabe we should stop ignoring nut jobs and start replying them! That way one will hopefully analyze themselves if they fit in the nut job profile!

Please never ever put "excitement" in religion.

Thank you

Phobia building up?

I have always been excited enough to read a book or 2 about Islam....if you have no enthusiasm how do you expect to have a positive influence on others regarding what the real Islam says? Its easier to say lets do this and that...we should do that and this but when asked to practice it...Please dont comes in every statement?

Look at the amount of excitement in a Mullah...We should go for war...We should blow ourselves up and get heaven or whatever they brainwash others with!

@cb4 anything you wish to add? I didnt know who else to mention ....

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....
Look at the amount of excitement in a Mullah...We should go for war...We should blow ourselves up and get heaven or whatever they brainwash others with! ...

That's what happens when you add excitement to relgiion.

Religion is always about spiritual side, to bring calmness and sanity to people.

However Islamism was never about calmness and sanity.

 

[Dubious]

Ah yes @PersonasNonGrata any thing you would like to add to this thread?

That's what happens when you add excitement to relgiion.

Religion is always about spiritual side, to bring calmness and sanity to people.

However Islamism was never about calmness and sanity.

There is no harm in being excited about something...it draws attention and if the intention is pure why be afraid? Living in fear is never going to bring any form of change!

@Fracker any ideas to contribute here?

 

[Fracker]

@Fracker any ideas to contribute here?

Religious tolerance comes with the understanding the religion at the first place.

I guess Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) last sermon need to be distributed, educated to every person, and when everyone is clear on this line. Thing will start moving into better direction.

"All praise is due to Allah, so we praise Him, and seek His pardon and we
turn to Him. We seek refuge with Allah from the evils of ourselves and
from the evil consequences of our deeds. Whom Allah guides aright there is
none to lead him astray; and there is none to guide him aright whom Allah
leads astray. I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, the One,
having no partner with Him. His is the sovereignty and to Him is due all
praise. He grants life and causes death and is Powerful over everything.
There is no God but Allah, the One; He fulfilled His promise and granted
victory to His bondsman, and He alone routed the confederates (of the
enemies of Islam).
O’ People! Listen to my words, for I do not know whether we shall ever
meet again and perform Hajj after this year. O’ Ye people! Allah says, O’
people We created you from one male and one female and made you into
tribes and nations, so as to be known to one another. Verily in the sight
of Allah, the most honoured amongst you is the one who is most
God-fearing. There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a
non-Arab over an Arab, nor for the white over the black nor for the black
over the white except in God-conciousness.
All mankind is the progeny of Adam and Adam was fashioned out of clay.
Behold; every claim of privilage whether that of blood or property, is
under my heels except that of the custody of the Ka’bah and supplying of
water to the pilgrims, O’ people of Quraish, don’t appear (on the Day of
Judgement) with the burden of this world around your necks, whereas other
people may appear (before the Lord) with the rewards of the hereafter. In
that case I shall avail you naught against Allah.
Behold! All practice of the days of ignorance are now under my feet. The
blood revenges of the days of ignorance are remitted. The first claim on
blood I abolish is that of Ibn Rabiah bin Harith who was nursed in the
tribe of Sa’ad and whom the Hudhayls killed. All interest and usurious
dues accruing from the times of ignorance stand wiped out. And the first
amount of interest that I remit is that which Abbas ibn Abd-al Muttalib
had to receive. Verily it is remitted entirely.
O’ people! Verily yor blood, your property and your honour are sacred and
inviolable until you appear before your Lord, as the sacred inviolability
of this day of yours, this month of yours and this very town (of yours).
Verily you will soon meet your Lord and you will be held answerable for
your actions.
O’ people! Verily you have got certain rights over your women and your
women have certain rights over you. It is your right upon them to honour
their conjugal rights, and not to commit acts of impropriety, which if
they do, you are authorised by Allah to separate them from your beds amd
chastise them, but not severely, and if they refrain, then clothe and feed
them properly.
Behold! It is not permissible for a woman to give anything from the wealth
of her husband to anyone but with his consent.
Treat the women kindly, since they are your helpers and not in a position
to manage their affairs themselves. Fear Allah concerning women, for
verily you have taken them on the security of Allah and have made their
persons lawful unto you by words of Allah.
O’ people! Allah, the Mighty and Exalted, has ordained to every one his
due share (of inheritance). Hence there is no need (of special) testament
for an heir (departing from the rules laid down by the Shari’ah).
The child belongs to the marriage-bed and the violator of wedlock shall be
stoned. And Reckoning of their (deeds) rests with Allah.
He who attributes his ancestry to other than his father or claims his
clientship to other than his master, the curse of Allah is upon him.
All depts must be repaid, all borrowed property must be returned, gifts
should be reciprocated and a surety must make good the loss to the assured.
Beware! No one committing a crime is responsible for it but himself.
Neither the child is responsible for the crime of his father, nor the
father is responsible for the crime of his child.
Nothing of his brother is lawful for a Muslim except what he himself gives
willingly. So do not wrong yourselves.
O’ People! Every Muslim is the brother of every other Muslim, and all the
Muslims form one brotherhood. And your slaves; see that you feed them with
such food as you eat yourselves, and clothe them with the clothes that you
yourselves wear.
Take heed not to go astray after me and strike one another’s necks. He who
(amongst you) has any trust with him, he must return it to its owner.
O’ people! Listen and obey, though a mangled Abyssinian slave is appointed
your Amir, provided he executes (the Ordinance of) the Book of Allah among
you.
O’ people! No Prophet would be raised after me and no new Ummah (would be
formed) after you.
Verily I have left amongst you that which will never lead you astray, the
Book of Allah, which if you hold fast you shall never go astray.
And beware of transgressing the limits set in the matters of religion, for
it is transgression of (the proper bounds of) religion that brought
destruction to many people before you.
Verily, the satan is disappointed at ever being worshipped in this land of
yours, but he will be pleased by obedience in anything (short of worship
that is) in matters you may be disposed to think insignificant, so beware
of him in your matters of religion.
Behold! Worship your Lord; offer prayers five times a day; observe fast in
the month of Ramadhaan; pay readily the Zakat (poor due) on your property;
and perform pilgrimage to the House of God and obey your rulers and you
will be admitted to the Paradise of your Lord.
Let him that is present, convey it unto him who is absent, for many people
to whom the message is conveyed may be more mindful of it than the
audience.
And if you were asked about me, what would you say?"
They answered, "We bear witness that you have conveyed the trust (of
religion) and discharged your ministry of Prophethood and looked to our
welfare."
Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) lifted his forefinger
towards the sky and then pointing towards people said:
"O’ Lord: Bear Thou witness unto it.
O’ Lord: Bear Thou witness unto it."​

 

[Edevelop]

@cb4 anything you wish to add? I didnt know who else to mention ....

Pakistan needs to follow the Turkish model. No one can become a Mullah or give any sort of Khutba unless they are approved by Local, Provincial, and Federal Governments. In other words, they must follow set of regulations.