What should be done to Increase Religious tolerance in Pakistan/ serious Discussion

[KingMamba]

Great.

I think you are ready to build your own little mosque called "Just a place of worship".

open to Hindus, Christians, Jews, Salafis, Ayatullis, Mullis, and yes Ahmadis too,.


Correct?

If you know and believe in the Kalima you should be allowed into a Masjid that is it, stop twisting @Pakistanisage words you worthless turd.

 

[Dubious]

Why is it not being done is because we are in this confused debate who is liberal and who is not.

Why does it matter? Teach the basics and then move out...You can be a Muslim if you do not know the shariah....you can equally be a Muslim if you dont know how to divide assets...You can also be a practicing Muslim even if you never did Hajj (coz you cant afford it or whatever the reason may be)...

When America was teaching us jihad is good and we were getting dollars for it, we radicalized our society to gain a geopolitical objective. Well America got its purpose, we got shit.

Now America is teachign us terrorism is bad and all of a sudden the orientation of our so called liblerals is the same.

If we cant reason and think whats happening around us, we cant find a reight direction.

That may carry some weight!

To bring back tolerance and education in our society we do need our citizen informed of Islam. We dont need everyone to be a scholar but at least educated about it.

This is true...no one can be a surgeon let alone a GP without going through medical collage!

Honestly, we dont even have basic education of Islam. If we had it, we would not have had so much chaos, indiscipline, lack of merit and lack of hygiene in our lives, cities and streets.

I agree with this notion....But @FaujHistorian is saying the opposite that we are brainwashed with romanticizing Islamic History...Since I never studied in Pakistan...my knowledge only comes from the books of my cousins which I browse through when I go to Pakistan or the school visits and collage and Uni visits I get to do coz most of my family is in education sector...

 

[FaujHistorian]

Abu Bakr did not fight Umar RA, Usman RA, or Ali RA. .....

Abu Bakar rah became Khalifa (bad idea bad concept) due to the sword of Umar.

If you don't know this

you are romanticizing history

not looking at it with critical pov

 

[Dubious]

Figah is root of all evils, we should educate on basics & quran only. Fiqah education should be allowed for adults only, so that he/she can study all of them and than decide either to go in this crap or not.

This can be 1 option! But why arent we thought of the Quran...the only thing we are thought is rattafication of the Arabic txt not the meaning!

 

[KingMamba]

you know when i asked this to my qari sahab when i was in sixth grade , I was asked to STFU and stop asking these questions
you are touching very sensitive parts of Islamic history, so expect emotional outbursts from people here

Yeah and what did you ask him? Is the history hidden from you in anyway? All Muslims know about their war and even what it was about so what did your qari intend to hide from you?

 

[FaujHistorian]

If you know and believe in the Kalima you should be allowed into a Masjid that is it, stop twisting @Pakistanisage words you worthless turd.

Don't tell me

Turn your guns to the Mullahs and Ayatullahs.

I personally am comfortable in any place of worship.

Why on earth you are making it personal anyways.

Discuss ideas and not posters. Rule#1 OF pdf

 

[KingMamba]

Abu Bakar rah became Khalifa (bad idea bad concept) due to the sword of Umar.

If you don't know this

you are romanticizing history

not looking at it with critical pov

Wrong he was voted in by those who were present, shias claim it was Umar RAs sword which brought him to power which is debateable because their bias against him needs to be taken into account. The only mistake made was not waiting for everyone to be present.

 

[FaujHistorian]

This can be 1 option! But why arent we thought of the Quran...the only thing we are thought is rattafication of the Arabic txt not the meaning!

iN 2014 you don't have to be taught by some Qari

Go open up the website on any topic.

Cross check it

double and tripple check it.

That's the education

Wrong he was voted in by those who were present, shias claim it was Umar RAs sword which brought him to power which is debateable because their bias against him needs to be taken into account. The only mistake made was not waiting for everyone to be present.

Obviously you have taken the first step towards critical analysis.

Please continue

 

[shiv]

think critically before u act rather than just because someone said so ?

 

[Pakistanisage]

Wrong he was voted in by those who were present, shias claim it was Umar RAs sword which brought him to power which is debateable because their bias against him needs to be taken into account. The only mistake made was not waiting for everyone to be present.

Don't waste your time with this guy.

He is " Shar Pasand " and Pure " Fitna ".

 

[liall]

I do not think that education removes religious bias. If that was the case why do some Muslims/Hindus/sikhs face bias in west where literacy is 95-100%. It is the ignorance about others religion that does that. Only way is let the people mix i.e talk to people from other religions be friends with them. Easy way is to take children on educational trips to say Masjid/Mandir/Church/Gurudwara/Synagouge. When they interact become friends the hatred goes away

 

[KingMamba]

Okay so how about you tell us what you think @FaujHistorian this thread was never about the history but you brought up the Khalifa Rashidun and spoke bakwas about them based on questionable narratives without realizing that the thread was about creating tolerance in Pakistan amongst sects.

Pakistan does not have sharia law so you can stop your barking for a second and give us your view of "the fix" because @Pakistanisage and I gave our views yet you have not given any view on how Pakistan can be made more tolerant.

 

[Dubious]

When did Sharia create sunni-shia, stop spreading lies @FaujHistorian.

Even the shia Imams followed the same sharia as sunni imams. Imam Hanifa RA was a student of Imam Jafar as Sadiq RA, Muhammad ul Baqir, and Zayd bin Ali RA. If sharia created Sunni-Shia then the "Sunni" Abu Hanifa would not have become a student and learned laws from those three "shia" leaders.

Strong points!!

Some of the beliefs that shias hold today that separate them from sunnis like occultation, self flagellation, infallibility of leaders, and human incarnation of God (few that come to mind) are not find in sharia or even in the Quran itself.

No idea where these come from...Reminds me of the story in Surah Baqarah when Musa AS went to the mountain to get revelations from God...the Bani Israel made a cow from jewelry and started worshiping it...Sooo this disease is as old as it can be to associate something or someone with God!

Back in the day shia just meant you believed Ali AS should have been the first leader and was not even a sect it evolved into one as the centuries past because of a lack of dialog between Muslims. It was just your political view of the leadership. Anyway that time has past now it has been 1400 years, who cares if he should have been first (although this is my own personal belief I am not a shia lol) you cannot change the past therefore the Pakistani government needs to shut down Mullahs who still fight over this irrelevant belief, annex all mosques under one ministry and close down those who refuse to comply, prosecute all Mullahs who declare fatwas for inciting unrest, and start training state appointed Mullahs who will leave the political spat of yesterday out of their sermons. It is that simple.

Awesome post Key words made bold so that it will catch the eyes of those who missed it!

Shia were followers who believed in a certain leadership the word itself means followers....

Hence I said the people themselves (the followers) are to blame for anything not Islam, not shariah not the Khalifs...The followers chose a certain path....they amplified it so that people stuck to their idea!

Dude why you limit your history, fact is 3 out of 4 caliphs were killed because of INTOLERANCE

@KingMamba this is what I said :

and so? They are dead! Get over it! Move on! Because the followers of them had this disease of lingering in the past did Muslims fall soo far down it is unimaginable!


Say whatever you want...I am not bothered about that...I am more interested in why is it happening on my land?!

 

[FaujHistorian]

Don't waste your time with this guy.

He is " Shar Pasand " and Pure " Fitna ".

Ayana unko dikhaya tu bura maan ga-aay

 

[KingMamba]

Obviously you have taken the first step towards critical analysis.

Please continue

I have already analysed the events of 1400 years ago and came to my own conclusion (which I have already stated in this thread) but I also realize that history will not solve the problems of Pakistan today (the topic of this thread) so I do not see the need to fight over historical narrative. In Pakistan Muslims are killing Muslims the most so the fix needs to begin there.

Dude why you limit your history, fact is 3 out of 4 caliphs were killed because of INTOLERANCE

Intolerance to what? Was it religious differences that got them killed? What is the topic of this thread?