What should be done to Increase Religious tolerance in Pakistan/ serious Discussion

[acid rain]

Stop taking religion seriously. do not hunt down people who do.

 

[airmarshal]

As I said,

we romanticize our religion and hence your response,


if you want to understand why Islamists butcher each other

go around and see if other religions have committed fratricide sometimes in the past.

And if they did

how did they get rid of it.

Similar lessons can be applied to modern Islmaist disease as well.



Good point!


Quran doesn't


$hitty Sharia does.


Why?

Sharia $hit is not based on Quran but on the stone age beduin arabi-ajami (us vs. them) ideology (nay idiot-ology).


Hope this helps,.

Shitty Sharia!! Are you a Muslim. What a fucked up mind you have. Take your words back. Sharia is Islamic law. Its not based on tradition, its based on Islamic principles of Quran.

Examples - Family law is complete law in Quran. Its in Surah Baqrah and Sura Nisaa. Just like inheritance law is also in Quran. So is penal code (Surah Maeda).

This is Islamic Sharia. If we dont follow it, thats our problem. And you are calling this shit, right?

A jahil maulvi and a jahil so called educated retard like you are actually two faces of the same coin.

 

[Dubious]

Teach Islam right from beginning of school. Teach values of tolerance that are in abundance in Islam.

My question why isnt this done yet? Islamization of Pakistan is what I see all over the forum yet this is not even done!

Where did intolerance come from? Go back to late seventies when Shah of Iran was toppled & an anti American regime came into being in Iran. Also, when Soviets invaded Afghanistan, it was time to invest into some ideology that would invigorate fight against 'infidel' Soviets and also take care of 'infidel' Shias of Iran. That is when Americans nodded to Saudis to teach a narrow, short sighted brand of Islam that was militant in nature & was designed to only get two short term objectives of defeating Soviets and containing 'Shia' Islam.

That can be 1 theory....But why didnt the educated people in Islam (no not the everyday Mullah but those who got degrees in the subject) do anything? or voice out?

Since all this happened in our neighborhood and we had ambitious establishment to utilize the geopolitical situation in 'our interest', we became the test lab for both anti-Shia and anti-Soviet brand of CIA Islam.

Where does Islam, in which chapter of Quran first distinguishes Islam into 'Shia' and 'Sunni' Islam? Where does it ask to first declare one an infidel and then go after him and call this a 'jihad'?

true....

Islam in South Asia taught peace and accommodation. No wonder Islam spread in Indian subcontinent and became a dominant religion. If we were taught otherwise, we would have hated it. Tell me who would in the right senses, ever accept Islam in a way Taliban purportedly are fighting for it? This aggressive, narrow minded, violent and militant Islam has no place in the world, even among Muslims, let alone influencing others to accept it.

Wonder when they will get the msg

Stop taking religion seriously. do not hunt down people who do.

please read post 13 and 15...thank you

 

[FaujHistorian]

....We have extravagance weddings while Islam says only Nikkah + witnesses and Wali, Haq mehr and Vallima ...simple as that...but nope we want to spend from what we dont have (this is 1 difference between our religion and culture but we combine the 2)..No harm if you can afford it....but shouldnt be made compulsory like my niece spend x amount of money I should spend xx on my daughter's wedding

It is none of my business to what someone is doing during and after the wedding. If Islam says do this or do that. So what.

Ultimately wedding is between a man and a woman (I know some of you out there have different def, but I don't care )

I seriously doubt Command T started this thread for a wedding? or about a wedding, on a wedding.

Did He?

Am I missing something?

I thought the subject line says something different,.

 

[Sugarcane]

I mean if we can stand shoulder to shoulder at Mekkah, Madinah with whatever sect then why not in our own homeland?

I know one Imam who went on Umrah with group of people and he used to conduct prayers in their hotel room not in Mosque --- Reason, Imams of the mosques there are wahabi and prayers behind them is not accepted. We have retards in every sect but it's always wahabis in spot light while other nuts are doing same type of things but nobody criticize them. If you want to deal with sectarian issue than you should take all the idiots into account not just wahabi.

 

[Dubious]

Been to saudi and spent much more time outside islamist tri-cities (makkah madeena jeddah).

It is obvious your knowledge about SAudi society is very limited.

And

hence your rebuttal.

If you have been to Jeddah then you would not have termed it Islamist!

2ndly, Saudi society is 1 thing...My rebuttal was about Islam from Rashidun Khalifah which you picked up! Not modern Saudi...Please stop jumping between eras!

 

[Pakistanisage]

Good point.

I don't go to an Ahmadi mosque

but

now that you have pointed out

We both will start praying in one of those places.

OK?

Aren't you contradicting yourself.

The point is that there shouldn't be any Ahmadi mosque.

There should be just Mosque, not an Ahmadi Mosque or Shia Mosque or Barelvi Mosque or Deobandi Mosque.

" Just Mosques " for People like me who consider themselves to be " Just Muslims ".

Prophet Muhammad PBUH was " Just Muslim " not a Shia Muslim or a Sunni Muslim.

 

[Sugarcane]

I know educating the people...I suggested that then there was a question educate them based on which fiqh? Why not educate them on the basics first coz seriously even the basics must be rusty if you can allow yourself to divide!

Figah is root of all evils, we should educate on basics & quran only. Fiqah education should be allowed for adults only, so that he/she can study all of them and than decide either to go in this crap or not.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....The sad truth is our lack of understanding..[about]..Shariah ..

OK

so you buy a new Iphone (or Android).

And you cannot make a phone call or surf the net. Then it is obviously your INDIVIDUAL lack of understanding.

However if 1 billion people cannot make a phone call using a similar phone

Then

the problem is with the phone. and NOT the people.


Same thing with Sharia.

 

[KingMamba]

When did Sharia create sunni-shia, stop spreading lies @FaujHistorian.

Even the shia Imams followed the same sharia as sunni imams. Imam Hanifa RA was a student of Imam Jafar as Sadiq RA, Muhammad ul Baqir, and Zayd bin Ali RA. If sharia created Sunni-Shia then the "Sunni" Abu Hanifa would not have become a student and learned laws from those three "shia" leaders.

Some of the beliefs that shias hold today that separate them from sunnis like occultation, self flagellation, infallibility of leaders, and human incarnation of God (few that come to mind) are not find in sharia or even in the Quran itself.

Back in the day shia just meant you believed Ali AS should have been the first leader and was not even a sect it evolved into one as the centuries past because of a lack of dialog between Muslims. It was just your political view of the leadership. Anyway that time has past now it has been 1400 years, who cares if he should have been first (although this is my own personal belief I am not a shia lol) you cannot change the past therefore the Pakistani government needs to shut down Mullahs who still fight over this irrelevant belief, annex all mosques under one ministry and close down those who refuse to comply, prosecute all Mullahs who declare fatwas for inciting unrest, and start training state appointed Mullahs who will leave the political spat of yesterday out of their sermons. It is that simple.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Aren't you contradicting yourself.

The point is that there shouldn't be any Ahmadi mosque.

There should be just Mosque, not an Ahmadi Mosque or Shia Mosque or Barelvi Mosque or Deobandi Mosque.

" Just Mosques " for People like me who consider themselves to be " Just Muslims ".

Prophet Muhammad PBUH was " Just Muslim " not a Shia Muslim or a Sunni Muslim.

Great.

I think you are ready to build your own little mosque called "Just a place of worship".

open to Hindus, Christians, Jews, Salafis, Ayatullis, Mullis, and yes Ahmadis too,.


Correct?

 

[Dubious]

Some idiots who want to call themselves liberal and secular and very advanced in their thought are going crazy here. They keep bringing Khulfa e Rasheden here. It shows their lack of knowledge.

Brother please refrain from addressing what 1 is doing or not doing...That is between them and GOD....ever heard of that story where near death a religious guy ends up in a pub while the druggy ghunakar did 1 good deed and when both died ....the ghunakar went to heaven while mr. religious went to hell...Take that as an example hence I try my best not to judge as I dont know where or how I will die so no name calling ...thank you!

Khulfa e Rasheedeen have a very unique place in history of Islam that even Quran endorses. Bringing them down to your uneducated and filthy level and comparing their lives with your unfulfilled lifestyle that promotes friends and families to positions that they dont deserve is not only a reflection of your bias, but also your jahalat.

Keep in mind 1 thing they were respected but were humans and they did do some wrong...though what they did for Islam outweighed what wrong they did ...The only wrong which I see significant was Usman for favouring his family members and friends while those (followers) who wanted Ali to be Khalifa couldnt swallow democracy when it hit them and Omar and Uthman were chosen over Ali....That was the followers fault...And as for the war between Ali and Ayesha...they said their sorries and departed in good terms...but the followers made sure others remembered it...abuse of history!

We are today what we are because of the way we have built our personalities. If we have not educated ourselves, have not created systems based on merit, have adopted wrong values and proudly espouse them, what has Islam and Khulfa e Rasheedeen got to do with it!

I totally agree with this bit!!

 

[Sugarcane]

Teach Islam right from beginning of school. Teach values of tolerance that are in abundance in Islam.

Where did intolerance come from? Go back to late seventies when Shah of Iran was toppled & an anti American regime came into being in Iran. Also, when Soviets invaded Afghanistan, it was time to invest into some ideology that would invigorate fight against 'infidel' Soviets and also take care of 'infidel' Shias of Iran.

That is when Americans nodded to Saudis to teach a narrow, short sighted brand of Islam that was militant in nature & was designed to only get two short term objectives of defeating Soviets and containing 'Shia' Islam.

Since all this happened in our neighborhood and we had ambitious establishment to utilize the geopolitical situation in 'our interest', we became the test lab for both anti-Shia and anti-Soviet brand of CIA Islam.

Where does Islam, in which chapter of Quran first distinguishes Islam into 'Shia' and 'Sunni' Islam? Where does it ask to first declare one an infidel and then go after him and call this a 'jihad'?

Islam in South Asia taught peace and accommodation. No wonder Islam spread in Indian subcontinent and became a dominant religion. If we were taught otherwise, we would have hated it. Tell me who would in the right senses, ever accept Islam in a way Taliban purportedly are fighting for it? This aggressive, narrow minded, violent and militant Islam has no place in the world, even among Muslims, let alone influencing others to accept it.

Dude why you limit your history, fact is 3 out of 4 caliphs were killed because of INTOLERANCE

 

[FaujHistorian]

....My rebuttal was about Islam from Rashidun Khalifah ...

you cannot have rebuttal about something you romanticize about

and refuse to do critical analysis about.

 

[airmarshal]

My question why isnt this done yet? Islamization of Pakistan is what I see all over the forum yet this is not even done!

Why is it not being done is because we are in this confused debate who is liberal and who is not.

When America was teaching us jihad is good and we were getting dollars for it, we radicalized our society to gain a geopolitical objective. Well America got its purpose, we got shit.

Now America is teachign us terrorism is bad and all of a sudden the orientation of our so called liblerals is the same.

If we cant reason and think whats happening around us, we cant find a reight direction.

To bring back tolerance and education in our society we do need our citizen informed of Islam. We dont need everyone to be a scholar but at least educated about it.

Honestly, we dont even have basic education of Islam. If we had it, we would not have had so much chaos, indiscipline, lack of merit and lack of hygiene in our lives, cities and streets.