What is Bangladesh doing to counter Indian interference?

[TopCat]

I was quoting a reputable author who quotes Pakistan civil servant and scholar Akbar S. Ahmed. The topic was what East Pakistanis were called by Punjabis pre-1971. See

Bangladesh: past and present - Google Books

Its not the only time you use this kind of wording. I saw the pattern of your post. Either you are a troll or you are a racist. Period.

 

[Spitfighter]

But, anyway, in average, Iranians are quite fair-skinned. You have to understand that such a person goes darker and darker if a family starts to live in a hot and humid country even without marrying into another family that has different blood line.

Right, so how come the English in South Africa and Zimbabwe still look white? Can you explain that or not?

However, that person's other physical features such as sharpness of nose, colour of eyes, amount of body hair etc. do not change equally. So, it is only the shade of skin that changes. Among the Muslims of Bengal there is no pure blooded Iranian or Arab, or locals, because in the course of the last few centuries, all the Muslims have become somehow a mixed-blooded community.

What do you think is the dominant eye color in Bangladesh? is Blue more prevalent or Black? Are your physical features different from ours?

Moreover, not so many Iranians migrated to India/Bengal. Many of the Iranians who came to India with Nadir Shah remained in India. But, most of them settled in Uttar Pradesh as soldiers. Bengal may not have that many Iranians from the beginning.

And yet some are ignorant enough to claim Persian ancestry as you have correctly pointed out. Not only do I find it patriotically embarrassing to claim foreign ancestry a thousand years after the fact, I would be ashamed to call myself a desi if I ever heard someone from UP claiming they were Iranian.

Not only has it been centuries, but the females must have been natives to being with, so its actually quite funny that 50 generations down the line people are still busy calling themselves 'Persians'

Whatever it may be, we are a mixed blooded community and Bangladesh is now our native country. So, it is not acceptable if someone projects himself (as can be seen in one post) as Persian. All the muslim countries are more or less had influx of foreign people who became the natives.

Lets assume for a second that Bangladeshis are a 'mixed race', what makes your 'mix' unique to Bangladesh?

Getting back however, what makes you think a majority of Bengali Muslims (or Muslims in general) are mixed anyway? There are plenty of Christians in India, you think they're half white? You think the invaders conquered India, mixed in with the local population and didn't bother converting anyone to their religion to extend their power? An overwhelming majority of muslims in the sub continent are simply converts.

It is also true for Saudi Arabia. Many Muslims from other countries including Bengal, Iran, Uzbekistan, Adfghanistan, Turkey etc. had settled there 70 or 80 years ago, and now their descendents are Saudi citizens.

You are confusing two different concepts, naturalization and race. Just because they are Saudi citizens doesn't mean they are the same race as the majority (NOT ARABS). If I'm an Indian American it doesn't mean my kids will gradually become white or hispanic (depending on who the majority is) but they will still be Americans (citizens).

I just do not understand why the Indians are so eager to keep us only as local and not a mixed blooded community? What benefit do they get? Probably they can bully us more in that way.

I don't understand why you lot can't debate without feeling so insecure/victimized all the time, also why are you so eager to be mixed?

, I think I know, but I'll leave it at that.

 

[eastwatch]

The foreign armies did not come with large numbers of women - the foreign Sipahis would have taken local women as wives and concubines. So the mixing began immediately, not after second or third generation.

The descendants of the foreign Sipahis are called Ashrafs. Even though the Sipahis were relatively few, they and their descendants had greater reproductive success - they are about 20% of the population. The remainder 80% are not descendants of Sipahis and are called Ajlafs. Even amongst the Ashrafs, it is not that the women were imported, so Ashrafs are mostly of native blood.

Where is there mud being thrown? The mud is in the racist tendencies of your own mind.

Sher Shah Suri was an Afghan Sipahi in Babar's army, who became the governor of Bihar, and then overran Bengal.

This is the racism that is in your own mind.

Do you know the meaning of Arya?

Mr. Halaku Khan Sahab, to know about the movement of Turkic Afghan people from Afghanistan to far away Bengal, you have to thoroughly read the history of how these people happened to be in Bengal. You are giving only a hypothetical general account, but I have given here a specific account of all those happened in the late 12th to early 13th centuries throughout India including Bengal.

In short, it was not an invasion in a conventional sense. Rather, it was how a neighbouring people living in the poor mountains of Afghanistan had migrated to Hindustan, the then food surplus richest region in the world. But, you have failed to see this. This type of movement of human groups were very common in those days.

When you have written on imaginations, I have written by reading the history. Better you read 'Taj-ul-Nasiri' by Minhaj-ud-Din Siraj and many other original history books written in those days to properly understand the flow of migration of people.

Before I say about Arya, could you please tell me what is the meaning of 'Aryavarta', and how many years ago this word was coined by the Indians? Was this word coined by Max muller of GERMANY or was it coined many thousand years before him.

I have a feeling that you will teach me that the meaning of Arya is NOBLE. Regardless of whatever may be regarded as the LITERAL meaning now-a-days, the word Arya used to have much wider meaning. So, you better say something about that meaning instead of denying the immigration of Aryas, which has become a trend in India.

One thing, to discuss historical facts in their true perspectives is neither racial nor it is a crime. With this mind, some day you will say that to discuss about African negroes being brought to America is also racial.

By the way, Muslims of Bengal also have a small percentage of negro blood in their veins. There was also a negro sovereign named Sultan Muzaffer Shah in the early 16th century. He was basically an army General of Bengal, and Malik Andil was his original name. He was defeated and killed by a 1st generation Arab named Syed Hossain Shah. His dynasty is very famous. All the Kolkata elites know about this Hossain Shahi Dynasty. How about, do I still look racial?

 

[Halaku Khan]

Before I say about Arya, could you please tell me what is the meaning of 'Aryavarta', and how many years ago this word was coined by the Indians? Was this word coined by Max muller of GERMANY or was it coined many thousand years before him.

Long discussion on Aryan Invasion/Migration theories beginning here: http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/35113-akbar-other-mughals-14.html#post512348

 

[eastwatch]

Eastwatch buddy some of your post are worth reading specially regarding the news about Bangladesh...Its helps us know more about Bangladesh..But when you degrade your self as a third rate racist you are loosing lots of respect around here

You are totally mistaken about my intention. I am certainly not a racist. I am just trying to post the past immigration of Muslims to India, specially in Bengal, with information from the history. My purpose is certainly not to glorify about our foreign as well as mixed ancestory. I am only stating the facts.

At the end of the day, we all together belong to Hindustan and then, of course, we now identity ourselves as Bangladeshi.

 

[eastwatch]

Right, so how come the English in South Africa and Zimbabwe still look white? Can you explain that or not?

What do you think is the dominant eye color in Bangladesh? is Blue more prevalent or Black? Are your physical features different from ours?

And yet some are ignorant enough to claim Persian ancestry as you have correctly pointed out. Not only do I find it patriotically embarrassing to claim foreign ancestry a thousand years after the fact, I would be ashamed to call myself a desi if I ever heard someone from UP claiming they were Iranian.

Not only has it been centuries, but the females must have been natives to being with, so its actually quite funny that 50 generations down the line people are still busy calling themselves 'Persians'

Lets assume for a second that Bangladeshis are a 'mixed race', what makes your 'mix' unique to Bangladesh?

Getting back however, what makes you think a majority of Bengali Muslims (or Muslims in general) are mixed anyway? There are plenty of Christians in India, you think they're half white? You think the invaders conquered India, mixed in with the local population and didn't bother converting anyone to their religion to extend their power? An overwhelming majority of muslims in the sub continent are simply converts.

You are confusing two different concepts, naturalization and race. Just because they are Saudi citizens doesn't mean they are the same race as the majority (NOT ARABS). If I'm an Indian American it doesn't mean my kids will gradually become white or hispanic (depending on who the majority is) but they will still be Americans (citizens).

I don't understand why you lot can't debate without feeling so insecure/victimized all the time, also why are you so eager to be mixed?

, I think I know, but I'll leave it at that.

Please read post #393 to get answers to many of your questions. I would like only to add that history is not logic. So, instead of asking why the europeans do not look like the native negroes in south africa, you better try to get answer to this, why the Muslim Turkey people look more european, but their cousins in the central asia have quite a mongoloid features.

I do not want to elaborate, but history says that the central asian NOMADIC Turkic people had migrated from the central asia to the present day Turkey via Iran and conquered the land. Only a few years before this migration, another group of Turkic people migrated to and conquered Hindustan in 1192 and then Bengal in 1203.

However, both these groups lost their original physical features in two different ways. One group became nearly white european and the other group became dark-skinned Hindustani. However, it does not alter the truth that both these groups were cousins to each other someday in the long forgotten past. This is what history teaches us.

 

[Iggy]

You are totally mistaken about my intention. I am certainly not a racist. I am just trying to post the past immigration of Muslims to India, specially in Bengal, with information from the history. My purpose is certainly not to glorify about our foreign as well as mixed ancestory. I am only stating the facts.

At the end of the day, we all together belong to Hindustan and then, of course, we now identity ourselves as Bangladeshi.

Sorry if I misunderstood you ..but my intention was not to defame you or anything like that..When i saw that words you write its hard to digest those kind of words coming from a guy like you..Any way don't get emotions catch you while writing posts bro..

 

[toxic_pus]

I would like only to add that history is not logic.

That explains a lot, why your history is so messed up and your logic is so juvenile. Because you understand neither. In any case, your first contention, that environment makes a person look the way s/he looks is actually correct. Unfortunately since you just took a shot in the dark, you couldn't respond to Spit's query. The answer lies in the speed of evolution (leaving aside the intermingling issue). It takes sever thousand generations to make a significant, visually identifiable change, while, the actual change may start to happen at a more micro level, a lot earlier. And it is only recently, that the Whites have started living in those areas. In the grand scheme of things, it is a mere blink of an eye.

Today, as opposed to 10,000 years ago, when population was scant, intermingling hastens up the process of gene acquisition, and it will be futile for anybody on earth to claim s/he is genuine this or pure that. Globally speaking, we are either more similar than different to each other, or more different than similar.

 

[Khajur]

Leave Eastwatch alone, u know as he proudly claims he is mixed race...not just one but of several races.

His theory is, the Turkic _Afgan general, Bakhtiyar Khalji
came with army of Muhammad of Ghor and later captured Bengal in 1203Ad with an afghan army whose nos dont go beyond few tens of thousands made the current the muslim Bengalis of BD and WB of nearly 20crs of people a mixed race.Its centainly the case this guys is hardly comfortable in his Bengali skin and always looking for to add layers of others races .

The percetage of Bengali muslims ppl who can claim as foreign ancestry is almost negligible in the overall population of this group as most are native converts .There was no historical evience of mass exodus of Turkic _Afgan or even Moghuls to the region of Bengal military or otherwise.

There are far more muslims in north india with foreign muslim ancestry than found in a much larger group of Bengal's muslims.

PS:Eastwatch , Go ahead start abusing for calling ur bluff.

 

[eastwatch]

Leave Eastwatch alone, u know as he proudly claims he is mixed race...not just one but of several races.

His theory is, the Turkic _Afgan general, Bakhtiyar Khalji
came with army of Muhammad of Ghor and later captured Bengal in 1203Ad with an afghan army whose nos dont go beyond few tens of thousands made the current the muslim Bengalis of BD and WB of nearly 20crs of people a mixed race.Its centainly the case this guys is hardly comfortable in his Bengali skin and always looking for to add layers of others races .

The percetage of Bengali muslims ppl who can claim as foreign ancestry is almost negligible in the overall population of this group as most are native converts .There was no historical evience of mass exodus of Turkic _Afgan or even Moghuls to the region of Bengal military or otherwise.

There are far more muslims in north india with foreign muslim ancestry than found in a much larger group of Bengal's muslims.

PS:Eastwatch , Go ahead start abusing for calling ur bluff.

You are unnecessarily trying to ridicule me because you, being educated, know what I have said is true. About population, was the population 800 yrs before same as today? If you do not now find justification in my logic, then, I am sorry, I am not going to write any more. Read with patience all my posts as well as many other relevant history books before you again send your bias.

Most of my classmates were disgusted at the thought of reading, memorizing and understanding only tens of pages of history. You are also no different. Better do not try history, it is not for someone with short memory. You should have asked your parents to give you big-capacity MAGAZ. Because, your present MAGAZ is not fit to memorize thousands of pages of history.

 

[Khajur]

You are unnecessarily trying to ridicule me because you, being educated, know what I have said is true. About population, was the population 800 yrs before same as today? If you do not now find justification in my logic, then, I am sorry, I am not going to write any more. Read with patience all my posts as well as many other relevant history books before you again send your bias.

Most of my classmates were disgusted at the thought of reading, memorizing and understanding only tens of pages of history. You are also no different. Better do not try history, it is not for someone with short memory. You should have asked your parents to give you big-capacity MAGAZ. Because, your present MAGAZ is not fit to memorize thousands of pages of history.

For all the invasions and historic assimilations of muslims of north india and pakistan(punjab and sindh) with the Arabs,Turkic,persians,Afghan and moghuls foreigners...its a widely accepted fact that most of them are natives converts and belong to simiar ethinc groups such as punjabis,jats ,Rajputs,Gujaratis of hindu and sikh religionists ...where as accoding to ur theory littered with lame excues makes Bengali muslims some how a mixed race...how ridiculous ,i cant believe we are arguing over it.

Ur theory and logic is absolute rubbish so much so that even u are well aware of it urself...dont try to publisize such notes beyond forums like this one used for more rhetoric battles rather than intellectual discourse...u'll end up a making a bigger mockery of urself than what witnessed here.

I thank my parents for not giving me " big-capacity MAGAZ " like the one u inherited from ur parents.

 

[Halaku Khan]

It would be desirable for people to avoid making personal remarks, and get back to the subject of the thread.

 

[eastwatch]

Someone was throwing malicious comments about the ugly features of Bangali Muslims. The following link is just a newspaper report with a picture of a public meeting held yesterday. The picture shows what I have been saying all along. The reason that we do not have one proto type of physical feature and do not have one shade of complexion, is that we are from different stocks of people, that include also the local Hindus who accepted Islam in the long past.

But, since Islam does not allow discrimination on the basis of creed, race or colour, therefore, the Muslims of Bengal have become a racially mixed group of people. However, features still differ from each other. Since this process will continue until Qayamat, therefore, there will certainly come a time when we will be completely assimilated among each other.

The New Nation - Internet Edition

Please see also another picture of Indians that I have just found in the Hindustan Times. I am surprised to see that they do not necessarily look like Bollywood film stars. I wonder how a person from this society can throw mud at the features of Muslims of Bengal just to win a debate. It proves that today's Indians are callaous, they cannot accept a truth in a free mind.

Indians, I am encountering here, cannot be compared with those elite Bangali Hindu historians of Calcutta, whose books written during British Raj and probably can be found today only in the Asiatic Society in Calcutta, enlightened me so much on the subject that I am dealing here.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/audio...or-post-of-BJP-president/Article2-476715.aspx

 

[rawraw]

Reproduce?

 

[eastwatch]

That explains a lot, why your history is so messed up and your logic is so juvenile. Because you understand neither.

Instead of sending trash, send some logical view and stop unnecessary critism of Bangali Muslims. What logic do you understand? Why do not you think of the circumstances under which I said that history is not logic? I repeat it is not, because history is based on FACTS in the past of a land and its people. It is not a logic when someone says that since the white south africans do not look like negroes, then why should the foreign muslims in Bengal do not look exactly like the people in their original native lands.

This was the background that I said above. But, you came with bashing. I was not expecting this from you because I know you have some knowledge in anthropology. I was expecting you to say that in case of south africa, two groups of people are extremely different from each other and they have not inter-mixed. But, in case of Bengal, the situation is just opposite. Outsiders of different stocks and locally converted Muslims were NOT that extremely different as it is in south africa, and more important point is, all these groups also married among each other after they have immigrated to Bengal.

Do not send bullshits anymore when responding to my posts. I am not that ignorant like many of your half-educated Indian posters. If you have no additional points, then just avoid my posts. I have seen enough of your type of intellectuals in my life. So, try not to be oversmart, and do not talk as if you are living in the sky.

By the way, why President Obama is not a white man when his mother is a white woman?