What INSAS has really achieved after 15 years & what its future

[MilSpec]

I am not a big fan of M4...and i really cant understand why IA went for it.The M4 has a problem of getting stuck in harsh environments.Uzi is a good buy but i would have loved to see SCAR or HK416 instead of M4.

Sir,
I own a AKM, and my friend owns a short barrel AR 15 (semi auto m4), I pretty much shoot every other week and have put more than couple of thousand rounds through both of them. Let me tell you this, there is no gun in the world that does not jam.

m16/m4 platform is an extremely accurate, long range rifle evolving from rich rifleman traditions of america. It is an extremely potent rifle system, and the key element is it's modularity, with a simple tool and pushing a few levers, you can switch uppers from a regular barrel to bull barrell, you can change the receiver and barrel for different cartridge chambers. It's a lego gun and was way ahead of it's time.

The bad rap it gets from vietnam is due to it's disinformation spread in the days about it being so advanced, that it did not need cleaning. When the initial batch was shipped out to vietnam, it did not include cleaning kit, The issue was satisfactorily resolved later.

Countries that have rich rifleman cultures around like aussies, israelis, pakistanis, canadians all have shown faith in the stoner platform. I can personally vouch it is an extraordinarily good rifle system if maintained properly. It is not for conscripts and militia's, it is for professional riflemen who take pride in their rifle, Indian spec forces are one of them, hence will suit them quite well.

ps. HK 416 is based on the m16 platform.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Sir,
I own a AKM, and my friend owns a short barrel AR 15 (semi auto m4), I pretty much shoot every other week and have put more than couple of thousand rounds through both of them. Let me tell you this, there is no gun in the world that does not jam.

m16/m4 platform is an extremely accurate, long range rifle evolving from rich rifleman traditions of america. It is an extremely potent rifle system, and the key element is it's modularity, with a simple tool and pushing a few levers, you can switch uppers from a regular barrel to bull barrell, you can change the receiver and barrel for different cartridge chambers. It's a lego gun and was way ahead of it's time.

The bad rap it gets from vietnam is due to it's disinformation spread in the days about it being so advanced, that it did not need cleaning. When the initial batch was shipped out to vietnam, it did not include cleaning kit, The issue was satisfactorily resolved later.

Countries that have rich rifleman cultures around like aussies, israelis, pakistanis, canadians all have shown faith in the stoner platform. I can personally vouch it is an extraordinarily good rifle system if maintained properly. It is not for conscripts and militia's, it is for professional riflemen who take pride in their rifle, Indian spec forces are one of them, hence will suit them quite well.

ps. HK 416 is based on the m16 platform.

Sir,

I know all rifles jam but some jam more than others.Although i havent been lucky enough to fire a M4 but have seen some videos of US SOF using them and it getting stuck and them talking about how easily it can get jammed if not cleaned..and how unreliable it is in sandy environments.Wars are always not faught with gaps in between battles and hence you need a reliable weapon in the end.Moreover my source was a video and not a first hand experience so i think i would trust you more than a video on youtube.

But can you tell me why US SOF are nowadays using SCAR-L and HK416?

 

[MilSpec]

Sir,

I know all rifles jam but some jam more than others.Although i havent been lucky enough to fire a M4 but have seen some videos of US SOF using them and it getting stuck and them talking about how easily it can get jammed if not cleaned..and how unreliable it is in sandy environments.Wars are always not faught with gaps in between battles and hence you need a reliable weapon in the end.Moreover my source was a video and not a first hand experience so i think i would trust you more than a video on youtube.

But can you tell me why US SOF are nowadays using SCAR-L and HK416?

US mil complex is very difficult and complicated business arena. I wish I could explain it here, but I really dont want to post it as I am a Indian living in US. If you really want to know this issue,exchange email id as PM's dont work anymore

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

US mil complex is very difficult and complicated business arena. I wish I could explain it here, but I really dont want to post it as I am a Indian living in US. If you really want to know this issue,exchange email id as PM's dont work anymore

(I hope you got the email ID)

Moreover i came across this article which made an impression on my mind that it isnt very reliable.

The USA’s M4 Carbine Controversy

 

[damiendehorn]

i am trying to understand, what sort of TOT you guys need to make a rifle? its not like its an MBT, or a fighter plane! the simple solution is to let tata do the job, then you guys would have a decent localy designed rifle. there is a fantastic rifle very similar to the german g36 family from mexico, let the tatas or one of the other companies buy out the whole company (should be peanuts to them) and build the rifle in india.

almost forgot i think its called the fx-05....just look it up on wiki....

 

[Abingdonboy]

Guys, after reading this thread I started doing some serious research and gettin in touch with a few guys I know in the firearm business. Let me tell you, whilst I cannot confirm it, that we could be in for a few surprises in the next few years wrt SF rifles. I have heard the Indian SF have got some serious cash to spend and they are on the hunt for a new "traditional" rifle that can be seriously "tooled up"! I have heard the SCAR and HK416 are at the forefront of this competition. Now I don't have specifics as even my friends don't have such info as with so much relating to Indian SOFs it is very hush hush so I don't know quantities or anything like that nor potential operators. One of my guys said he wouldnt be surporsed of the weapon wasnt in service already!!All I can say is watch this space!!

Indian SOFs are finally getting attention and heavy funding.

 

[Omega007]

Actually the barrel of the TAVOR-21 is longer than that of the M4/M-16 but due to the bull-pup design is shorter in overall length wich means it is more accurate but doesn't have a length/mobility penalty. Indian SOFs have been smart to get the Tavors.

Wrong.M 16 has 505mm long barrel where as TAR 21 has 460mm barrels. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[chairborne ranger]

Actually the barrel of the TAVOR-21 is longer than that of the M4/M-16 but due to the bull-pup design is shorter in overall length wich means it is more accurate but doesn't have a length/mobility penalty. Indian SOFs have been smart to get the Tavors.

Wrong.M 16 has 505mm long barrel where as TAR 21 has 460mm barrels. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

pretty sure m-4 has a 370 mm barrel...the m-16 has a 508 mm barrel..but then that's not what we're inducting

 

[Sergi]

Guys, after reading this thread I started doing some serious research and gettin in touch with a few guys I know in the firearm business. Let me tell you, whilst I cannot confirm it, that we could be in for a few surprises in the next few years wrt SF rifles. I have heard the Indian SF have got some serious cash to spend and they are on the hunt for a new "traditional" rifle that can be seriously "tooled up"! I have heard the SCAR and HK416 are at the forefront of this competition. Now I don't have specifics as even my friends don't have such info as with so much relating to Indian SOFs it is very hush hush so I don't know quantities or anything like that nor potential operators. One of my guys said he wouldnt be surporsed of the weapon wasnt in service already!!All I can say is watch this space!!

Indian SOFs are finally getting attention and heavy funding.

They always got that. It's just we are coming to know it.

The question won't be about SF. Those guies get what they want. It's about IA standard. Hope it work out.

Keep us posted if you get more info and when space is filled

 

[MilSpec]

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, hey , sorry I just got back, did not get your email, post it and delete it

 

[Terminator]

You can compare it with an orignal here.

Dear O Dear...I am not arguing abt the background of this person at all, he may have defense background. Please observe the encircled parts of gun & minutely compare it with the real one. See the magazine of replica G36 (toy)...now u got ur answers..

Gear Geek's: Well G36 Airsoft rifle

 

[saumyasupratik]

Dear O Dear...I am not arguing abt the background of this person at all, he may have defense background. Please observe the encircled parts of gun & minutely compare it with the real one. See the magazine of replica G36 (toy)...now u got ur answers..

Gear Geek's: Well G36 Airsoft rifle

Also no markings on safe, single and auto lever selector.

 

[Sergi]

Dear O Dear...I am not arguing abt the background of this person at all, he may have defense background. Please observe the encircled parts of gun & minutely compare it with the real one. See the magazine of replica G36 (toy)...now u got ur answers..

Gear Geek's: Well G36 Airsoft rifle

Cocking mechanism seems missing. That might prove your claim. But I am still not believing a army guy wll be playing with replica toy and posting it on FB. let's see what others say on this

 

[Terminator]

Cocking mechanism seems missing. That might prove your claim. But I am still not believing a army guy wll be playing with replica toy and posting it on FB. let's see what others say on this

Boasting on FB perhaps.............

 

[Sergi]

Boasting on FB perhaps.............

Can't comment positively on that. Never seen IA guy boasting about his gun - and if you are right why with fake one ??? When everyone on profile is able to find its dud and not real one ???

You are OP. add poll to this thread asking opinion about which rifle will be selected