What can Pakistan learn from Bangladesh?

[UKBengali]

The Welsh and English comparison is clumsy, but lets entertain it for a moment. Where did you think all the Welsh coal went? Did the money get spent in Wales? Perhaps Yorskhire should be asking for it's share of the profits Britain made from using/selling it's coal. Scotish oil is another example. Scotland doesn't get all the money from that - yet it's clearly not as wealthy as SE England. How about the steel in Wales, Sheffield etc - exported all over the world, yet you don't see Sheffield as Dubai or Singapore.

In nations the wealth is placed in the hands of government and spent where required, or where the government sees fit. You get to change that at the ballot box. In third world countries, sometimes you don't get to do that either. Bangladeshis who justified a civil war and the creation of another state from 1 based on the context of supression of democracy, are today in this very thread making excuses for Hasina's quashing of democracy for a sense of the greater good.

Sometimes you have to look beyond the bias.

Scotland as a direct result of the Barnett formula has been getting higher public spending for decades than England.
Yes Scotland's oil went to mostly England(as England has 10 times more pop whereas BD was more populous than Pakistan) but the English spend around 10% more on public services on Scotland than in England and they keep doing it even today. As a direct result of this the gap between England and Scotland in gdp per capita is pretty much zero now.

Pakistan spent less on public services in BD than in Pakistan during 1947-1971. BD in fact should have been getting more money to spend on infrastructure and public services to lessen the gap between the two wings but it actually increased from 1947-1971!


LOL at bringing in Yorkshire that is part of England and not a separate nation like Wales and Scotland!

 

[Tom-tom]

The Welsh and English comparison is clumsy, but lets entertain it for a moment. Where did you think all the Welsh coal went? Did the money get spent in Wales? Perhaps Yorskhire should be asking for it's share of the profits Britain made from using/selling it's coal. Scotish oil is another example. Scotland doesn't get all the money from that - yet it's clearly not as wealthy as SE England. How about the steel in Wales, Sheffield etc - exported all over the world, yet you don't see Sheffield as Dubai or Singapore.

In nations the wealth is placed in the hands of government and spent where required, or where the government sees fit. You get to change that at the ballot box. In third world countries, sometimes you don't get to do that either. Bangladeshis who justified a civil war and the creation of another state from 1 based on the context of supression of democracy, are today in this very thread making excuses for Hasina's quashing of democracy for a sense of the greater good.

Sometimes you have to look beyond the bias.



OTE]

The Welsh and English comparison is clumsy, but lets entertain it for a moment. Where did you think all the Welsh coal went? Did the money get spent in Wales? Perhaps Yorskhire should be asking for it's share of the profits Britain made from using/selling it's coal. Scotish oil is another example. Scotland doesn't get all the money from that - yet it's clearly not as wealthy as SE England. How about the steel in Wales, Sheffield etc - exported all over the world, yet you don't see Sheffield as Dubai or Singapore..

Wales did get developed, if weren't for them eras, Cardiff and many other cities wouldn't have existed, they would have remained as grass land. SE England is wealthy, largely part due to the fact of London. What makes london so unique is its densely packed I think it's called aggregate economics. For example a research lab will be located near a legal office or a fiance house. As there are so many different enterprises of different fields in one area, more work gets done. Thus more economic output. London does not pillage other areas, more money get spent in Scotland and other deprived areas.

 

[313ghazi]

Scotland as a direct result of the Barnett formula has been getting higher public spending for decades than England.
Yes Scotland's oil went to mostly England but the English spend around 10% more on public services on Scotland than in England and they keep doing it even today. As a direct result of this the gap between England and Scotland in gdp per capita is pretty much zero now.

Pakistan spent less on public services in BD than in Pakistan during 1947-1971. BD in fact should have been getting more money to spend on infrastructure and public services to lessen the gap between the two wings but it actually increased from 1947-1971!

You make out like Bangladesh was/is one unit and Pakistan was another. Pakistan is made up of Punjab, KPK, Sindh, Balochistan FATA, GB, AJK - which one of these areas can say they got "the right amount of spending" let alone "more spending than they deserve?"

I see you've not mentioned Wales anymore.

Wales did get developed, if weren't for them eras, Cardiff and many other cities wouldn't have existed, they would have remained as grass land. SE England is wealthy, largely part due to the fact of London. What makes london so unique is its densely packed I think it's called aggregate economics. For example a research lab will be located near a legal office or a fiance house. As there are so many different enterprises of different fields in one area, more work gets done. Thus more economic output. London does not pillage other areas, more money get spent in Scotland and other deprived areas.

Lets not mix the Tory voting SE with London in general. The SE gets a lot spent on it than many parts of the North and the midlands. You don't see anyone waging a civil war about it in the UK.

 

[UKBengali]

You make out like Bangladesh was/is one unit and Pakistan was another. Pakistan is made up of Punjab, KPK, Sindh, Balochistan FATA, GB, AJK - which one of these areas can say they got "the right amount of spending" let alone "more spending than they deserve?"

I see you've not mentioned Wales anymore.

Yes BD was a nation in it's own right and totally different to the rest of Pakistan that has territorial contiguity and has a similar culture to each other.

Please do not drag this on - admit the looting that Pakistan did during 1947-1971 and we can move on. It is not like BD will ask for any compensation from a poorer country anyway.

Lets not mix the Tory voting SE with London in general. The SE gets a lot spent on it than many parts of the North and the midlands. You don't see anyone waging a civil war about it in the UK.

England is England. It will not break up if one part feels aggrieved at spending differentials.

Wales and especially Scotland are being bribed to stay in the Union - enough said!

 

[Sehnsucht]

@UKBengali @Tom-tom @313ghazi
It's pointless arguing over what happened so long ago.Past is past.Whatever happened, already happened.No point bickering over spilled milk.
Pakistan & Bangladesh have different priorities & face different challenges.Comparing our countries are like comparing apples & oranges.
Better we instead focus on building up our economy, military & build up brotherly relations with both country.Whatever our bitter past may be, we now face a common enemy in our borders.

 

[UKBengali]

@UKBengali @Tom-tom @313ghazi
It's pointless arguing over what happened so long ago.Past is past.Whatever happened, already happened.No point bickering over spilled milk.
Pakistan & Bangladesh have different priorities & face different challenges.Comparing our countries are like comparing apples & oranges.
Better we instead focus on building up our economy, military & build up brotherly relations with both country.Whatever our bitter past may be, we now face a common enemy in our borders.

Comparison was starting by a Pakistani blog here.
It is very important for Pakistanis to learn from BD as this is the best economic model they have to be honest.

Very worrying how nearly all Pakistanis are blaming external factors rather than themselves for their economic failures. Unless they improve their economy their ability to maintain their military will be severely compromised.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Comparison was starting by a Pakistani blog here.
It is very important for Pakistanis to learn from BD as this is the best economic model they have to be honest

Again, Pakistan faces different challenges compared to Bangladesh. They have barely stable borders & has a 6-7 times larger existential threat right next door.

Very worrying how nearly all Pakistanis are blaming external factors rather than themselves for their economic failures. Unless they improve their economy their ability to maintain their military will be severely compromised.

That's common human trait.Very few like to admit that their unfortunate circumstances are as much of their own faults as it's others.
It's a kind of coping mechanism.

 

[Indos]

@UKBengali

So what is actually done by Bangladesh to make its economy has 7 percent economic growth for decades ? This simple question is not even answered by the article, so what kind of things that Pakistan should follow from Bangladesh economic model ?

South Korea for instant has clear strategy to follow which is to build Chaebols and from there those conglomerate can have enough capitals to build sophisticated industry like automotive, heavy industry, and electronics. This is derived from trickle down effect economic theory.

Indonesia follow similar path as well during Soeharto (although we also build massive state owned companies besides nurturing private own conglomerates) but then scrapped that strategy after we got democracy and even we set up anti monopoly regulation and has anti monopoly body to enforce that regulation.

After Asian Financial Crisis we know the important of having small and medium size companies since this company who save Indonesian economy during the crisis. About 60.6 percent Indonesian GDP is now coming from small and medium size companies.

 

[bluesky]

@UKBengali

So what is actually done by Bangladesh to make its economy has 7 percent economic growth for decades ? This simple question is not even answered by the article, so what kind of things that Pakistan should follow from Bangladesh economic model ?

South Korea for instant has clear strategy to follow which is to build Chaebols and from there those conglomerate can have enough capitals to build sophisticated industry like automotive, heavy industry, and electronics. This is derived from trickle down effect economic theory.

Indonesia follow similar path as well during Soeharto (although we also build massive state owned companies besides nurturing private own conglomerates) but then scrapped that strategy after we got democracy and even we set up anti monopoly regulation and has anti monopoly body to enforce that regulation.

After Asian Financial Crisis we know the important of having small and medium size companies since this company who save Indonesian economy during the crisis. About 60.6 percent Indonesian GDP is now coming from small and medium size companies.

@Avicenna the American, do you think that the post above suggests something that can be emulated to industrialize Bangladesh?

 

[UKBengali]

@UKBengali

So what is actually done by Bangladesh to make its economy has 7 percent economic growth for decades ? This simple question is not even answered by the article, so what kind of things that Pakistan should follow from Bangladesh economic model ?

South Korea for instant has clear strategy to follow which is to build Chaebols and from there those conglomerate can have enough capitals to build sophisticated industry like automotive, heavy industry, and electronics. This is derived from trickle down effect economic theory.

Indonesia follow similar path as well during Soeharto (although we also build massive state owned companies besides nurturing private own conglomerates) but then scrapped that strategy after we got democracy and even we set up anti monopoly regulation and has anti monopoly body to enforce that regulation.

After Asian Financial Crisis we know the important of having small and medium size companies since this company who save Indonesian economy during the crisis. About 60.6 percent Indonesian GDP is now coming from small and medium size companies.

Well actually BD growth has been like this for the last 4 decades:

1980s - 4% average
1990s - 5% average
2000s - 6% average
2010s - 7% average


This decade it could hit 8%+ but we need a few more years to be confident of this.

What this shows as is there was a long term plan that was executed at least partially successfully to develop the economy over time.

In contrast does Pakistan even have a long term economic plan? Governments change all the time and there does not seem to be any economic consistency between them.

As an example of BD long-term plans we just need to look at Dhaka RSTP 2016-2035 that is in full swing. It envisions the building of 5 metro lines, 2 rapid bus transport lines, 3 radial ring roads, 6 elevated expressways and many other roads in Dhaka. As per plan the infrastructure is being built that will not only benefit Dhaka but the rest of the country as they will no longer have to travel through Dhaka to get from one side to another.
The whole plan is mainly being funded by Japan with BD contributing it's own share.

Sorry but Pakistan just does not seem to have any long-term plans as far as I can see. CPEC is good but just how will all this infrastructure be used to grow the Pakistani economy? You may fail with a plan, but you will 100% fail without a plan!

BD does not really have a simple plan like S Korea. It has kept debt to gdp ratio extremely low and supported the garment industry to grow to it's current huge size.
Now it is using the relatively low-debt to gdp ratio to build lots of infrastructure and create SEZs to create even more economic activity.
It is also supporting industries like electronics and shipbuilding with tax incentives. IT itself has been wrapped up in the "Digital BD" for the last decade initiative and we are seeing fruits as exports have grown to over 1 billion US dollars and per capita are on the level of India now.

 

[Che palle]

We can teach you about ethnic nationalism

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Pakistanis are involved in coming up with so many excuses to explain why they are 3rd world after 72 years of independence and still have no stable fast growing economic foundation. They even had access to BD resources during 1947-1971 to boot!
I hope the current government in Pakistan has a different attitude as otherwise Pakistan will not have any chance of moving forward economically.

Food for thought - Pakistan is predicted to slide to world's 50th largest economy by 2034 whereas BD is predicted to rise to 24th.

War is an excuse? Victim of terrorism is an excuse? Constant skirmishes on LoC with India is an excuse?

Actually arrogant ones are BD members who just found a little success (from textile mills) and now want to gloat in Pakistanis' faces.

Your agenda is obvious.

I'm consistently disappointed by the attitude of some of these guys.

You are incapable of understanding the Pakistani mindset, this is why 1971 was a blessing in disguise. It united Pakistan under one ideology and one cause. No longer are we dragging our feet to appease those who didn't believe in our ideals.

These are decisions that an independent Pakistan took. The war on terror was a direct consequence of Pakistan's support for the Taliban in the 1990s.

Post Zia-democracy is also a choice that Pakistan as independent nation made.

It is depressing to see Pakistanis making excuses for their economic failure and so there is little hope that they will be prepared to change a failed economic system.

Like I say your need to spend more on defence and geopolitical environment is more than made up by your 24 years head start in independence, 24 year subsidy from BD during 1947-1971 and vastly greater natural resources.

What is the solution?

Bow down to Soviets? Bow down to US?

Playing second fiddle to India may suit BD.

Surrender and cowardice does not suit a strong nation like Pakistan.

I hope the current Pakistani government is a lot more humble than the Pakistani posters here as otherwise the future for Pakistan is very bleak.

You are the arrogant and obsessed ones here. We don't even think to compare ourselves to BD.

China is the better example for us.

Please do not drag this on - admit the looting that Pakistan did during 1947-1971 and we can move on. It is not like BD will ask for any compensation from a poorer country anyway.

I see, so this is the cause of your obsession.

You are trying to take further revenge for 1971.

The war is over, leave the barracks and go back to your homes.

It is very important for Pakistanis to learn from BD as this is the best economic model they have to be honest.

Not very important for us, but I think it is very important for you.

Most Pakistanis don't have a very good opinion of BD as a country. I don't want to go further as it may hurt your feelings.

Comparison was starting by a Pakistani blog here.

Express Tribune is a known anti-Pakistan website, which posts US, Indian propaganda.

We can teach you about ethnic nationalism

No thanks. We have been there and disowned that mindset. For a multicultural, multiethnic state like Pakistan, Islam and shared history are the main motivators.

 

[UKBengali]

Actually arrogant ones are BD members who just found a little success (from textile mills) and now want to gloat in Pakistanis' faces.

BD economy is far more than garments - IT exports are around 2-3 billion US dollars when unofficial channels are counted and growing at some 20-30% a year.
Lots of other industrial activity is going on and BD home market is dominated by domestic companies in areas like pharmaceuticals, electronics and shipbuilding. As an example of the level that BD shipbuilding sector has reached, Damen will construct their first S Asia shipyard in BD.

Garments was the past, other industries will now propel growth as otherwise a 350 billion US dollar economy cannot be propelled at 8% growth a year.

 

[bluesky]

100% True and some myopic bangladeshis are still not seeing that reality. And yes, those dollars would be of no use.

Dollars may be of no use. But, learning the process of nation-building will be of use in the long term. An economic buildup goes through trials and errors.

 

[Avicenna]

War is an excuse? Victim of terrorism is an excuse? Constant skirmishes on LoC with India is an excuse?

Actually arrogant ones are BD members who just found a little success (from textile mills) and now want to gloat in Pakistanis' faces.

Your agenda is obvious.



You are incapable of understanding the Pakistani mindset, this is why 1971 was a blessing in disguise. It united Pakistan under one ideology and one cause. No longer are we dragging our feet to appease those who didn't believe in our ideals.



What is the solution?

Bow down to Soviets? Bow down to US?

Playing second fiddle to India may suit BD.

Surrender and cowardice does not suit a strong nation like Pakistan.



You are the arrogant and obsessed ones here. We don't even think to compare ourselves to BD.

China is the better example for us.



I see, so this is the cause of your obsession.

You are trying to take further revenge for 1971.

The war is over, leave the barracks and go back to your homes.



Not very important for us, but I think it is very important for you.

Most Pakistanis don't have a very good opinion of BD as a country. I don't want to go further as it may hurt your feelings.



Express Tribune is a known anti-Pakistan website, which posts US, Indian propaganda.



No thanks. We have been there and disowned that mindset. For a multicultural, multiethnic state like Pakistan, Islam and shared history are the main motivators.

I’m about as interested in the Pakistani mindset as you are in the Bangladeshi one.

Your last post is just evidence backing up my previous assertion.

Regardless, good luck to you and good luck to us.