Was Charles Darwin a Racist ?

[desioptimist]

You are applying logic to an unlimited being?

How can the uncreated be created?

Thats the answer to your question... either God was created by super God... or there is someone who is ETERNAL (from a beginning which has no beginning to an end which has no end)

In scientific terms... do not apply time on God... God created time so God is not bound by what He has created... (i.e there was nothing before the creation of the universe... big bang... not even time because time is merely an ongoing fourth dimension)

You want my autograph now? Your welcome

This is called solving the problem by definition.
This is how it works.

Suppose you dont know how something works. Lets say how it rains.
You create an imaginary entity called Rain God.
Define Rain God as something which causes rain.

Problem solved. Only that it is a fake answer. The real answer was found the hard way.

Similarly, people are trying to find the real answer to the question, how did universe come into being. They may never get the answer, or they may get it within a year.
However some people will define an entity called God, which created it, by definition God cant be created, and hurray, problem solved.

I want your autograph sir, definitely.

 

[TEXAS BATTLESTAR]

I feel poor for those who always look scientific evidence for everything in order to believe it. Imagine their gf/wife express her love for them and they ask her where is evidence of love. where is proof of existence of love?

That's easy, just f*ck with them!

 

[metro]

Ah I appreciate your interest but this takes a lot of time... I should tell you... you risk your current belief system if you want to proceed with this... so dont come near this discussion unless you are willing to adopt a totally different belief system (and reject your current one)...

I can certainly direct you to the material that you can read...

Why you think Ill have to leave my current belief system in order to understand the existence of God ?

Should I assume that you want to imply that only Islamic God exists, and only Its existence can be proven ?
Sir, facts are not subjective.
2+2=4, and the Earth revolves around the Sun even if you and I may think differently.
So the argument of “your God against God word” is not a valid one when it comes to logical and scientific facts.

 

[ARSENAL6]

LOL...best proof is to talk to a homosexual in person and found out what they encounter and felt growing up.

Thats not proof

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

For the third time, let me explain why scintific method and rationality should be the only guiding light to find the truth

Agree and let me remind you again that science has not discovered all the truths about everything. Science has its limitation in finding all the truth or absolute knowledge because science rely on senses of scientist which are limited..limited in hearing..limited in listening..limited in intelligence..limited in watching etc. Scientist are finite which cannot grasp the concept of infinity. They could also make errors in their judgement or observation.

Let us first assume for arguments sake that science has limited capability in finding truth. As you said things like God, Soul or Djinn cannt be verified by science, as they are beyond science as of now( or forever).

Let me propose another such entity "X" which does not exist( exists in my mind, I just made it up)
When I told you that it exists, and you said prove it, I just told you what you mentioned above, it is beyond science.

There are so many things which are beyond science, we have only learnt a little.
However it does not give anybody free allowance to propose their wacky thoughts, and when challenged just say: It is beyond science.

Ok dude would you like me to tell the properties of your entity X in order for me to believe in it. I will do reasoning whether i should believe in X or not after you tell me the property or attributes of your entity X. I will find out X is real or fake after you give me some information about it. How many followers of entity X are there or you the are only one wwo believe in its existence? You did not understood my point.

God by definition is eternal being. What about your entity “X”? God by definition is not matter? What about your entity “X”. Words of God written in religious scriptures what about your entity X? I get information about God from religious scriptures brought by many prophets. Prophets were real. Their message was real. Where do you get your information about your entity “X”? God is the creator of universe( as i told you before science is silent here and you said science only discover truth then where is truth about existence of universe ) what about your entity X . God created life what about your entity X. I have got plenty of logical reasons to believe in creator.

Something does not suddenly appear from nothing. Either the universe has always been here or it had a beginning. If it had a beginning than a split second before this there had to be nothing. Religious peoples say it must have been God others particularly scientists avoid the question rather doggedly. Rational thinking is very helpful when dealing with physical matter. When we are dealing with God, however all 'proof' is hopeless if we are concerned in obtaining physical proof.

Hence, the best way is to accept that we dont know (like you said about singularity) or we may never know. That does not allow others to create false answers.
A "I dont know" answer is much better than a fake make believe answer.

About bold part, why would god want you to have faith?
What if I say If God wanted us to know his existence surely he would have made it clearer(assuming that he really exists)
Do you know his mind, that he wants faith to be above reason, when it is about him?
Lastly science has not ruled out santa claus either.

We all create our own realities. what is fake for one may be real for others. Yes i do believe in religious scriptures’ and messengers of God otherwise how i would have known the existence/message of God. I believe in words of Quran as true that’s why i call myself believer. I read your words here which is proof of your existence. I read the words of Quran and i feel these are the words of God and proof of his existence. If we could prove existence of God as we prove G = 9.8 m/s^2 or if we could see physical existence of God then what would be our test in this life? Its like me asking you to believe in my existence after we had face to face conversation. My existence became fact after we had face to face conversation. Would it make sene to give you reward or punishment to recognise something which is 100% clear/fact or visible? Do you believe in soul? Or you think our body is physical just like Robot? What about dreams, hope, fear, love? Are they real? Can you prove their physical existence?

I never said i believe in God without reasons. I have got many logical reasons to believe in his existence. I cannot follow something if my mind or heart is not convinced with it. I am sure you too cannot believe in something whom your heart or mind is not accepting.

I only have to look out my window to see the results of the existence of a Greater Power that made it all. Why the native birds and the growth of beautiful trees , the tides of the sea down below us here on the mountain. The more I study the amazing qualities of all living things so individually crafted, the more I believe there is a Master Mind behind it all. Why even man's computers seem ancient against the complexities of natural life on earth. Who built in the instinct to the wild geese who cross Mt Everest in their migration. There are so many of nature's mysteries that I am in awe of and that in turn makes me in awe of a God that created these wonders. Now do you feel same about your entity” X”

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

But, like i said earlier, religious beliefs are blind beliefs, so it will absolutely impossible to prove the existence of God in a logical or scientific way.
Religion and Science/logic are two different things, please try to understand that.
Religious beliefs are blind beliefs, they are to be believed, not proven.

Now i don't really know about your defination of "Blind" . If you say beliefs/believers are blind because they don't make any sense then i don't agree with you. If you mean they are blind because you cannot bring physical or scientific evidence or you cannot do experiment in lab to prove their existence or you cannot observe God with telescopes then sure i agree with you : )

What existence mean to you? Does existing mean that God is a physical form in our universe? If you read my previous post it was me who said that we should not mix science with religion because science is study of nature and physical matter while most concepts of religions are super natural. Science is helpless about super natural concepts unless scientist discover some tools to detect or observe the existence of non physical beings.

We see the stars, we see the moon, we see the sun and we see it all working in ordered fashion to bring comfort and existence to a human life. Is there a hand mightier than human creativity behind all this order? Would it be a little pretentious to believe that human beings even as creative as we know them to be, could have designed and fashioned our world and all it contains? Is there not a source that supplies the energy for creation in an ongoing basis?
Is it really possible that by chance came about intelligent beings with the ability to show emotions, think, solve, breathe, laugh etc? The idea of ruling God out of when Creation came to be is simply ridiculious to others and makes sense to some. Being an atheist is like this: you don't have to think about who/what caused creation because the Universe came into existence by chance and this life is without end. Being a believer of God is like this: God was always present and fashioned and designed creation with scientific knowledge and beauty etc. For me the God scenario is more sophisticated and logical

 

[desioptimist]

Agree and let me remind you again that science has not discovered all the truths about everything. Science has its limitation in finding all the truth or absolute knowledge because science rely on senses of scientist which are limited..limited in hearing..limited in listening..limited in intelligence..limited in watching etc. Scientist are finite which cannot grasp the concept of infinity. They could also make errors in their judgement or observation.

Did I not agree that science may not be capable of finding everything. Why are you trying to say something which I already agreed.

The question is whether somebody should believe something which is beyond the capability of scientific observation and reasoning.
Even if I take the answer as yes, how do you know it is true.

X is a logical entity which does not exist but I claim that it does. You can imagine anything you want.
Example "Santa claus".
I think you are missing the point again. The point is anybody can tell his imaginary entity to me and when I use logic and reason, he can just say, it is a matter of belief, beyond science.

And if you have logic and reason to believe in god, please present here.
Existence of a book called quran does not prove existance of god,but it proves that some human wrote it.

 

[metro]

Laws of nature exists, you can call that God.
But God of religion, does not exist, nor it can be proven logically or scientifically.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Even if I take the answer as yes, how do you know it is true.

If you get convinced and satisfied then its true and real for you.

X is a logical entity which does not exist but I claim that it does. You can imagine anything you want. I think you are missing the point again. The point is anybody can tell his imaginary entity to me and when I use logic and reason, he can just say, it is a matter of belief, beyond science.

I gave you reasons in my previous post why it make more sense to believe in existence of creator then believe in your entity X. I asked you to tell me the properties of entity X? You don't know anything about X? While my decision of believing in my God is informed decision.
Peoples can create their own Gods. You can also consider this entity X as your God. I dont have any problems with it but i cannot believe in something without reasoning . I accept something only if my heart and mind is convinced with it. I am not blind believer

And if you have logic and reason to believe in god, please present here.

Did not you read my essay above?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Laws of nature exists, you can call that God.
But God of religion, does not exist, nor it can be proven logically or scientifically.

Who created these laws of nature? Who created nature?

 

[metro]

Who created these laws of nature? Who created nature?

I dont know. Maybe mother nature did.
But certainly not the God of religions.

 

[metro]

Now i don't really know about your defination of "Blind" . If you say beliefs/believers are blind because they don't make any sense then i don't agree with you. If you mean they are blind because you cannot bring physical or scientific evidence or you cannot do experiment in lab to prove their existence or you cannot observe God with telescopes then sure i agree with you : )

What existence mean to you? Does existing mean that God is a physical form in our universe? If you read my previous post it was me who said that we should not mix science with religion because science is study of nature and physical matter while most concepts of religions are super natural. Science is helpless about super natural concepts unless scientist discover some tools to detect or observe the existence of non physical beings.

We see the stars, we see the moon, we see the sun and we see it all working in ordered fashion to bring comfort and existence to a human life. Is there a hand mightier than human creativity behind all this order? Would it be a little pretentious to believe that human beings even as creative as we know them to be, could have designed and fashioned our world and all it contains? Is there not a source that supplies the energy for creation in an ongoing basis?
Is it really possible that by chance came about intelligent beings with the ability to show emotions, think, solve, breathe, laugh etc? The idea of ruling God out of when Creation came to be is simply ridiculious to others and makes sense to some. Being an atheist is like this: you don't have to think about who/what caused creation because the Universe came into existence by chance and this life is without end. Being a believer of God is like this: God was always present and fashioned and designed creation with scientific knowledge and beauty etc. For me the God scenario is more sophisticated and logical

I am not a believer because I do not see any evidence of the existence of God. By “God” I mean the god of religions. The creation can be easily explained with evolution and I see no evidence of a hearing, seeing caring God. I believe in a principle that underlies the universe.
Over 200,000 innocent people lost their lives in Haiti and the most vulnerable people on Earth are often hit by similar calamities. Where is God?
Does God see our suffering and does not care? Does he see it, wants to help but he can’t? Or maybe, he does not know what is happening. Therefore, he is callous, impotent or ignorant. Such God does not deserve our worship.
Suffering does not end with human misery. It is woven into the fabric of the universe. Why should any loving God design the world in such a way that the sustenance of some creatures must necessity depend on the destruction of the lives of many others? The most cynical part is that these creatures that are destined to be food are endowed with senses and feelings. They suffer excruciating pains before becoming snacks and those who survive them suffer untold sorrow. When a deer loses her calf, her anguish is no less than the anguish we humans feel for the loss of our children. If truly this universe is designed by a god, he must be utterly cruel.
Jews and Christians reason that the suffering in the world is the result of Adam and Eve’s disobedience. This belief is rehashed in the Quran also. By doing so they are in effect acknowledging that God is unjust. How can a just and loving god, punish thousands of generations and millions of species in land and sea because one couple ate an apple without permission? Is this punishment commensurate with the offence? Is it fair that entire world suffer because one guy stole an apple? And we are supposed to believe that such god is wise, just and forgiving?
Because our foolish progenitors could not control their stomach, God kicked them out of paradise, unleashed Satan to prey on their descendants and made all creatures devour each other. And we are supposed to, day and night worship this insane god and praise his justice, mercy and compassion.
Why do we humans want to fool ourselves? Well, it is because we need to believe.

If you can believe in God, you should. Believers are happier in general. It is comforting to believe someone listens to your prayers, takes care of you and will not abandon you in the dark moments of your life. The belief in God is placebo. Sometimes placebos save life. Placebo works as long as you don’t know the truth about it. Alas, I know the truth about God.

But be wary of the downside of belief too. A few weeks ago, famous American televangelist Pat Robertson said the deadly Haitian earthquake that killed over 200,000 people was God’s vengeance for a “pact” Haitians swore to the Devil to set them free from slavery over 200 years ago. Since then, he said, Haiti has been cursed by “one thing after the other.”
What is the message in this remark? That God wanted the blacks to remain slaves. They had to enlist the help of Devil to gain their freedom, which angered God who has been hitting those helpless people ever since with one curse after another.
Why would God want to keep the blacks in slavery? Assuming the ancestors of Haitian made a pact with Devil, those guys are dead. Why would a sane God punish their descendants? And more importantly, why should anyone help someone whom God has cursed and wants to punish?
The Quran is full of stories like this. The destruction of Aad by Allah is one such story.

As long as God means hope, it is good. Life without hope is hell. If the love of God makes you a Loving Mother , there is nothing wrong in it. Whether God exists or not, is secondary.

 

[desioptimist]

If you get convinced and satisfied then its true and real for you.

I gave you reasons in my previous post why it make more sense to believe in existence of creator then believe in your entity X. I asked you to tell me the properties of entity X? You don't know anything about X? While my decision of believing in my God is informed decision.
Peoples can create their own Gods. You can also consider this entity X as your God. I dont have any problems with it but i cannot believe in something without reasoning . I accept something only if my heart and mind is convinced with it. I am not blind believer



Did not you read my essay above?

Are you saying logic and reasoning is different from scientific method?
Are you saying we should use a bit of reason but not too much, like the scientists do? Why?
Problem is once you are on the slippery slope of "enough reason for me", you cant stop yourself from sliding to absurd reasoning.
The people you see around you doing absurd religious things basically started at your level.

 

[Splurgenxs]

@metro
lol one big rant..tho true.
I don't believe in god but i do believe in karma.

 

[Vinod2070]

People seem so happy talking common inanities.

The sun doesn't set in muddy waters. Enough said.