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Church apologises to Charles Darwin over theory of evolution

Why do you feel so negative about medical science. If religon could solve all then why is there so much strive in this world ? After all medical science has solved so many problems in the world.

Regards

Marey Bhai.
It is not science I am contradicting, I am reaffirming my faith in Quran.I would take the word of Allah above all the science in the world.
Flintlock-- Although the Darwinian theory states that man evolved from apes, in order to confirm this theory, you need to answer 2 more questions.
A If that is the case why have more monkeys not evolved into human beings, inspite of 4 odd million years,
B. where is the proof of the existence of an intermediate being between apes and humans. Every few yrs scientists declare with great gusto that they have found the missing link, and then the voice dies down. As long as the missing link is not available the theory remains unproven.
Araz
 
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And Religion has ? Better to be the descendants of Monkeys than that of the God men who only bring misery to each other. It was not a monkey which created the Gujarat riots or the Lal Masjid or the Shia Sunni Massacre in Khurrram.

Regards

Do not equate religion to the bigotry of the clergy. Taken on its own, all religions if followed properly can lead to peace and mutually harmonious existence.
It has forever been the bigotry of man which has besmirched the name of religion. It is our fault that we have assigned the *****, and bigoted member of the clergy to be the pall bearers and "Thaikeydar " of religion. Read the book yourself and understand it. You will not go wrong. However, if you want a concised version fed to you, remain forever in darkness, for you are relying on people who are less educated, less motivated, and prone to all the weaknesses that you have.
Dont blame religions for your ills.
WaSalam
Araz
 
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Neo the preacher :enjoy:
"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good" ;)
1 Thes 5:21

Problem with religion is that its interpretations could be different, Similar in science if its not a established fact the their could be different theories.
Science is evolving religious interpretations do change.

But religion is not based on concrete fact its only based on faith.

You already answered the query, religion is not based on concrete facts but faith. Faith and science don't go hand in hand. Unless we find a solid waterproof theory to prove evolution is right I'd rather stick with faith in a Supreme being and his creation.
 
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Do not equate religion to the bigotry of the clergy. Taken on its own, all religions if followed properly can lead to peace and mutually harmonious existence.
It has forever been the bigotry of man which has besmirched the name of religion. It is our fault that we have assigned the *****, and bigoted member of the clergy to be the pall bearers and "Thaikeydar " of religion. Read the book yourself and understand it. You will not go wrong. However, if you want a concised version fed to you, remain forever in darkness, for you are relying on people who are less educated, less motivated, and prone to all the weaknesses that you have.
Dont blame religions for your ills.
WaSalam
Araz

i dont blame religion for any good but I do see a lot of instances where it kills people. However I must also agree that misuse of science also creates problems. So whats difference between science and religion ? both can be used by bad people. However Darwins theorey and Haldanes laws are much easier to understand that religion.

Regards
 
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i dont blame religion for any good but I do see a lot of instances where it kills people. However I must also agree that misuse of science also creates problems. So whats difference between science and religion ? both can be used by bad people. However Darwins theorey and Haldanes laws are much easier to understand that religion.

Regards

There is a famous saying among the gun lobbyists in the US.."guns dont kill people, people do".

The same pretty much goes for Religion. You take up panga in the name of religion then obviously the blame goes to the religion. We do this all the while ignoring the underlying social, political and other factors involved in the conflict. Most of the so-called "religious" conflicts have underlying geographical/ethnic or socio-economic aspects.
 
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You're wrong there Neo. The theory of evolution is acknowledged as the most viable explanation for the origin of species by most if not all scientists, and definitely all scientists of repute.


Christian Student Survival Conference​

Evolution experts are quietly admitting that one of their most cherished examples of Darwin's theory, the rise and fall of the peppered moth, is based on a series of scientific blunders. Experiments using the moth in the Fifties and long believed to prove the truth of natural selection are now thought to be worthless, having been designed to come up with the "right" answer. Scientists now admit that they do not know the real explanation for the fate of Biston betularia, whose story is recounted in almost every textbook on evolution.

According to the standard account, only one version of Biston existed before the mid-19th century: a white variety, peppered with black spots. During the Industrial Revolution its numbers plummeted because it became easy prey for birds as it rested on the pollution-blackened trunks of trees.In its place a mutant, pitch-black form of the peppered moth began to thrive, as it could rest on tree trunks without fear of being eaten. Precisely as predicted by Darwin's theory of natural selection, this "fitter" mutant moth rapidly outnumbered the white version, reaching 100 per cent levels in some industrial areas.

During the Fifties, however, naturalists discovered a resurgence of the white variety, prompting the belief that Darwin had struck again through the Clean Air Acts, which had led to the return of unpolluted trees. These allowed the white moths to regain their Darwinian ascendancy, while the numbers of the now all-too-visible black variety fell.

This neat example of Darwinian evolution in action has been thought to be supported by solid evidence in the form of experiments begun in the Fifties by the late Oxford University scientist Bernard Kettlewell. But now evolution experts are pointing to blunders in Kettlewell's research that undermine the theory about the rise and fall of Biston. Scientists are beginning to concede that the white variety flourished again well before the return of pollution-free trees, while the black type continued to thrive in areas unaffected by industry. Experiments have also shown that neither moth chooses resting places best suited to its camouflage. Most damning of all, despite 40 years of effort, scientists have seen only two moths resting on tree trunks - the key element of the standard story and Kettlewell's experiments.

According to Michael Majerus, a Cambridge University expert on the moth, Dr Kettlewell tried to confirm the standard story simply by pinning dead moths on to parts of the trees where they could be seen easily by birds. Dr Majerus said: "He stuck them on low branches because he wanted to sit in his hide and watch them being eaten. They actually seem to rest in the shadows under branches, which makes even the black ones difficult to spot by birds."

Scientists are now beginning to doubt even the basic presumption that birds were responsible for the changing fortunes of the different types of Biston. According to Prof Jerry Coyne, an expert on evolution at the University of Chicago, when Dr. Kettlewell could not get the moths he needed naturally, he bred them in his laboratory. Prof Coyne said: "That could affect their vigour, so the level of bird predation he saw was just due to the fact that his moths were raised in the lab. In one case, Kettlewell actually used to warm them up on the bonnet of his car."

Prof Coyne insisted, however, that the moths are almost certainly an example of natural selection: "I'm certainly not saying Darwin is wrong. The real cause is probably connected with pollution - but beyond that I wouldn't want to go." He said, however, that Dr. Kettlewell's widely-quoted experiments are essentially useless. "There is a lot of wishful thinking and design flaws in them, and they wouldn't get published today."

Some fear that the new theories will be seized on by creationists to fuel "sensationalist" claims questioning all evidence for Darwin. Richard Dawkins, the professor of the public understanding of science at Oxford University and author of The Selfish Gene, said: "The details of any experiments done 40 years ago are bound to be vulnerable to detailed criticism. But, in any case, nothing momentous hangs on these experiments."

By Robert Matthews, Science Correspondent, London Telegraph 14 March 1999.
 
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Christian Student Survival Conference​


Some fear that the new theories will be seized on by creationists to fuel "sensationalist" claims questioning all evidence for Darwin. Richard Dawkins, the professor of the public understanding of science at Oxford University and author of The Selfish Gene, said: "The details of any experiments done 40 years ago are bound to be vulnerable to detailed criticism. But, in any case, nothing momentous hangs on these experiments."

By Robert Matthews, Science Correspondent, London Telegraph 14 March 1999.

That's the important point.

Lots of evidence versus Zero evidence.

Who's right?
 
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Interesting though....but if you had a choice between a drop of deadly poison or a gallon of it. Would you be more comfortable taking the lesser quantity knowing that it will kill you anyway?

What is wise..?

It makes a lot of sense to me to believe that a Supreme being created all there is in this universe with a diversity in intelligence at every level and that mutations to certain level are possible. But its quite simplistic to believe that we evolved from monkeys.

I can disassemble a simple toy and keep all the components in a box for a thousand years or even longer but it will never put itself together. How on earth can we believe that a something so sophisticated as a human body evolved from apes...???? :crazy:
 
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Interesting though....but if you had a choice between a drop of deadly poison or a gallon of it. Would you be more comfortable taking the lesser quantity knowing that it will kill you anyway?

Erm...scientific proof is not "poison". Its scientific proof. The same stuff that' used to prove everything from gravity to relativity.


I can disassemble a simple toy and keep all the components in a box for a thousand years or even longer but it will never put itself together. How on earth can we believe that a something so sophisticated as a human body evolved from apes...???? :crazy:

You have just stated the most widely held misconception about evolution by the general public.

Human Beings did not spontaneously assemble them from simple parts.

The process is called Natural Selection by way of Genetic Variation.
 
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Interesting though....but if you had a choice between a drop of deadly poison or a gallon of it. Would you be more comfortable taking the lesser quantity knowing that it will kill you anyway?

What is wise..?

It makes a lot of sense to me to believe that a Supreme being created all there is in this universe with a diversity in intelligence at every level and that mutations to certain level are possible. But its quite simplistic to believe that we evolved from monkeys.

I can disassemble a simple toy and keep all the components in a box for a thousand years or even longer but it will never put itself together. How on earth can we believe that a something so sophisticated as a human body evolved from apes...???? :crazy:


Religion believed the earth to be flat and how wrong we were ?

Religion believed that the moon is sacred but in the future man will live on it and leave our garbage on it.

Religion believed that immaculate conception is true but how wrong we were ?

Religion believes were unequal but science and education proved how wrong we were


etc..............................

Regards
 
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Which brings be back to my claim that here is no solid scientific proof that evolution is right.

More evidence vs zero evidence is not an option for a faithful mind. A single doubt nullifies faith....its like poison.
 
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Religion believed the earth to be flat and how wrong we were ?
Wrong, religion never claimed it, ignorant people did. tleast Bible or Holy Qur'an never did.

Religion believed that the moon is sacred but in the future man will live on it and leave our garbage on it.
Again no Evengelical belief claims moon to be sacred. Please show me any link, you won't find it in the Bible.

Religion believed that immaculate conception is true but how wrong we were ?
Only one such case in the Bible, Holy Mary and that to is referred to as work of God which can not be proven.

Religion believes were unequal but science and education proved how wrong we were
Religion (Bible in this case) teaches that all humans are equal, they're like children to God.

etc..............................

Regards[/QUOTE]
 
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Which brings be back to my claim that here is no solid scientific proof that evolution is right.

More evidence vs zero evidence is not an option for a faithful mind. A single doubt nullifies faith....its like poison.

Neo, have you studied biology in university? If you haven't then really, you have no basis on which to contradict scientific proof.

The problem with the faithful mind is that it doesn't need proof for its own faith, but demands unreasonable proof for opinions contrary to its beliefs and relies on nit-picking to claim outright that the opponent is wrong.
 
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A quote from Wikipedia ought to clear it up:

Creationists promote that evolution is a theory in crisis[85][86] with scientists criticizing evolution[87] and claim that fairness and equal time requires educating students about the alleged scientific controversy.

Opponents, being the overwhelming majority of the scientific community and science education organizations,[88] reply that there is in fact no scientific controversy and that the controversy exists solely in terms of religion and politics.[85][89] The American Association for the Advancement of Science and other science and education professional organizations say that Teach the Controversy proponents seek to undermine the teaching of evolution[85][90] while promoting intelligent design,[91][92][93] and to advance an education policy for US public schools that introduces creationist explanations for the origin of life to public-school science curricula.[94][95] This viewpoint was supported by the December 2005 ruling in the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial.[95]

George Mason University Biology Department introduced a course on the creation/evolution controversy, and apparently as students learn more about biology, they find objections to evolution less convincing, suggesting that “teaching the controversy” rightly as a separate elective course on philosophy or history of science, or "politics of science and religion," would undermine creationists’ criticisms, and that the scientific community’s resistance to this approach was bad public relations.[96]

As a means to criticise mainstream science, creationists have been known to quote, at length, scientists who ostensibly support the mainstream theories, but appear to acknowledge criticisms similar to those of creationists.[82] However, almost universally these have been shown to be quote mines that do not accurately reflect the evidence for evolution or the mainstream scientific community's opinion of it, or highly out-of-date.[83][84] Many of the same quotes used by creationists have appeared so frequently in Internet discussions due to the availability of cut and paste functions, that the TalkOrigins Archive has created "The Quote Mine Project" for quick reference to the original context of these quotations.[83]
 
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