Vikramditya & the IAC Vikrant Threat To Pakistan Waters

[danger007]

Now we are going away from the topic. But yes since the BJP came to power after the shameful destruction of Babri Masjid. Indians have started dreaming about 'Akhund Bharat'. Now with Narendan Modi BJP is set to rise and have a chance of winning the elections.

IN THE SHADOW OF SHIVA
Crazed Hindu-fascists threaten the world
"I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds."

Behind the Headlines
by Justin Raimondo
Antiwar.com
June 3, 2002

HINDU-FASCISM IN ACTION

The rise of Hindu fundamentalism as a political force in India catapulted the Bharatiya Janata Party to power and sought to expunge the Gandhian pacifism of the old militantly secular Congress Party tradition, replacing it with a new martial spirit. The idea of Hindutva, which energizes the Hindu activists, sees India not only as a Hindu state, but as a militantly revanchist force in the region, a nation determined to recapture its old empire. As I explained in a previous column devoted to this fascinating subject, the Hindutva movement has created a whole mythology based on the idea of ethnic Indians as the first and only pure Aryans: the swastika is an ancient Hindu symbol, and has been revived by what I call the Hindu-fascist forces in India. The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the ideological center of Hindutva, has a provision in its constitution that its leader must be a blue-eyed Sarasvat Brahmin.

I hesitate to use the term "neo-Nazi" to describe a contemporary political movement, as it has become almost a ritualistic term of abuse. However, in this case, the label fits precisely: to begin with, the Hindutva theory of "Aryan" racial superiority is nearly identical to that of the German Nazis. Hitler’s followers borrowed not only the swastika but also adopted other mythic aspects of Hindu mysticism, such as the alleged Arctic origins of the "Aryan" race propagated by B. G. Tilak and others.

Marquand cites Francine Frankel, director of the Center for the Advanced Study of India, as saying that India's ruling party "has reinterpreted Hinduism to include a manly assertiveness." This is confirmed by the exclamation of one Hindu leader who, averring his support for India's nuclear program, declared "We are no longer eunuchs!"

The psycho-religious symbolism of India's nuclear exhibitionism may have eluded our political leaders, but it wasn't lost on the scholarly community. Marquand cites Sanskrit scholar Surendra Gamphir, who says militarism is so "deeply embedded [a] concept in Hindu culture that you hold scripture in one hand and a weapon in the other."

In short, what we are dealing with, in India, is a bunch of neo-Nazi nutballs with a giant nuclear chip on their shoulders – and suffering under a terrible feeling of inadequacy, or impotency. Calling a group or party "nutballs" is a bit harsh: but, again, there is no other way to describe the Indian leaders' professed indifference to the consequences of a nuclear exchange. Surely a stoic calm in the face of such a horror has deep – and dark – psychological roots. Such a volatile mixture of psychological and ideological maladies ought to have set off alarm bells, back in 1998, when they became a nuclear power, but nobody seemed to "connect the dots," as they say. As Marquand pointed out at the time:

"Yet after last month's test, experts in New Delhi and Washington are not speaking of a 'Hindu bomb' - [even] as they speak of an 'Islamic bomb.'"

India made its position clear last year, when George Fernandes, India's defense minister, declared:

"We could take a strike, survive and then hit back. Pakistan would be finished."

One Western diplomat worried aloud that "these people have never heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki," but, then again, perhaps Westerners have trouble understanding the concept of reincarnation, which figures prominently in the religions of Asia, and especially in the Hindu tradition. You may be incinerated by a nuclear bomb in this life, but don't worry – you'll come back. Perhaps as a citizen of a more civilized country, where the idea of mass death is unthinkable. It's the next best thing to a green card.

Source: Antiwar.com

you should read the thread title... stop posting your non-sense..

 

[MilSpec]

@Neptune @Loki ... some cleanup for off topics...plz

 

[Slayer786]

you should read the thread title... stop posting your non-sense..

I did write that I was going off-topic. But the guy was asking for it. LOL. And when you guys dont have anything to reply. This excuse comes up.

Anyway, getting back to the topic. I dont believe that India will have an easy time with the blockade even with two aircraft carriers. An experts opinion below.

What Might an India-Pakistan War Look Like?
By Christopher Clary

India's substantial quantitative and qualitative naval superiority is unlikely to be an important factor in a short, limited war. India has twelve frigates to Pakistan's six, an aging aircraft carrier and ten destroyers where Pakistan has none, twenty corvettes with anti-ship missiles compared to Pakistan's six smaller missile boats, and fourteen diesel-electric submarines compared to Pakistan's five (excluding Pakistan's midget subs).6 But the question is not which navy would win a maritime war, but rather whether the Indian Navy could beat its Pakistani counterpart so decisively and quickly that it might alter the strategic situation on land. Past India-Pakistan conflicts have been brief. Large-scale fighting lasted one month in 1965, two weeks in 1971, and two months in the 1999 Kargil conflict. As a result, the Indian Navy played a limited role in earlier Indo-Pakistani conflicts and this pattern seems likely to persist.

Most analyses do not account adequately for how difficult it would be for the navy to have a substantial impact in a short period of time. Establishing even a partial blockade takes time, and it takes even more time for that blockade to cause shortages on land that are noticeable. As the British strategist Julian Corbett noted in 1911, "it is almost impossible that a war can be decided by naval action alone. Unaided, naval pressure can only work by a process of exhaustion. Its effects must always be slow…."7 Meanwhile, over the last decade, Pakistan has increased its ability to resist a blockade. In addition to the main commercial port of Karachi, Pakistan has opened up new ports further west in Ormara and Gwadar and built road infrastructure to distribute goods from those ports to Pakistan's heartland. To close off these ports to neutral shipping could prove particularly difficult since Gwadar and the edge of Pakistani waters are very close to the Gulf of Oman, host to the international shipping lanes for vessels exiting the Persian Gulf. A loose blockade far from shore would minimize risks from Pakistan's land-based countermeasures but also increase risks of creating a political incident with neutral vessels. Even if India were to be successful in establishing a blockade, new overland routes to China are likely to further protect Pakistan from strangulation from the sea. While the navy is not irrelevant, there are strong reasons to be skeptical that the naval balance has tilted in such a way as to affect strategic outcomes in a limited India-Pakistan conflict.

Source: MIT Center for International Studies

 

[SrNair]

Now we are going away from the topic. But yes since the BJP came to power after the shameful destruction of Babri Masjid. Indians have started dreaming about 'Akhund Bharat'. Now with Narendan Modi BJP is set to rise and have a chance of winning the elections.

IN THE SHADOW OF SHIVA
Crazed Hindu-fascists threaten the world
"I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds."

Behind the Headlines
by Justin Raimondo
Antiwar.com
June 3, 2002

HINDU-FASCISM IN ACTION

The rise of Hindu fundamentalism as a political force in India catapulted the Bharatiya Janata Party to power and sought to expunge the Gandhian pacifism of the old militantly secular Congress Party tradition, replacing it with a new martial spirit. The idea of Hindutva, which energizes the Hindu activists, sees India not only as a Hindu state, but as a militantly revanchist force in the region, a nation determined to recapture its old empire. As I explained in a previous column devoted to this fascinating subject, the Hindutva movement has created a whole mythology based on the idea of ethnic Indians as the first and only pure Aryans: the swastika is an ancient Hindu symbol, and has been revived by what I call the Hindu-fascist forces in India. The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the ideological center of Hindutva, has a provision in its constitution that its leader must be a blue-eyed Sarasvat Brahmin.

I hesitate to use the term "neo-Nazi" to describe a contemporary political movement, as it has become almost a ritualistic term of abuse. However, in this case, the label fits precisely: to begin with, the Hindutva theory of "Aryan" racial superiority is nearly identical to that of the German Nazis. Hitler’s followers borrowed not only the swastika but also adopted other mythic aspects of Hindu mysticism, such as the alleged Arctic origins of the "Aryan" race propagated by B. G. Tilak and others.

Marquand cites Francine Frankel, director of the Center for the Advanced Study of India, as saying that India's ruling party "has reinterpreted Hinduism to include a manly assertiveness." This is confirmed by the exclamation of one Hindu leader who, averring his support for India's nuclear program, declared "We are no longer eunuchs!"

The psycho-religious symbolism of India's nuclear exhibitionism may have eluded our political leaders, but it wasn't lost on the scholarly community. Marquand cites Sanskrit scholar Surendra Gamphir, who says militarism is so "deeply embedded [a] concept in Hindu culture that you hold scripture in one hand and a weapon in the other."

In short, what we are dealing with, in India, is a bunch of neo-Nazi nutballs with a giant nuclear chip on their shoulders – and suffering under a terrible feeling of inadequacy, or impotency. Calling a group or party "nutballs" is a bit harsh: but, again, there is no other way to describe the Indian leaders' professed indifference to the consequences of a nuclear exchange. Surely a stoic calm in the face of such a horror has deep – and dark – psychological roots. Such a volatile mixture of psychological and ideological maladies ought to have set off alarm bells, back in 1998, when they became a nuclear power, but nobody seemed to "connect the dots," as they say. As Marquand pointed out at the time:

"Yet after last month's test, experts in New Delhi and Washington are not speaking of a 'Hindu bomb' - [even] as they speak of an 'Islamic bomb.'"

India made its position clear last year, when George Fernandes, India's defense minister, declared:

"We could take a strike, survive and then hit back. Pakistan would be finished."

One Western diplomat worried aloud that "these people have never heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki," but, then again, perhaps Westerners have trouble understanding the concept of reincarnation, which figures prominently in the religions of Asia, and especially in the Hindu tradition. You may be incinerated by a nuclear bomb in this life, but don't worry – you'll come back. Perhaps as a citizen of a more civilized country, where the idea of mass death is unthinkable. It's the next best thing to a green card.

Source: Antiwar.com

Again I told you ,use your brain or go and die.I am just answer your question ,it is you
get away from topic.
Narendra Modi is not a upper class hindu, he is a lower class .So your so called nazism ended there.
Secondly you dont know about Hindus,In Islam some religious fanatics orderes something and rest of follows that folly.If some rational muslims in there ,rest of muslims will eliminate them call as traitors.But in India ,Hindu has freedom,so Hindus dominate in both congress and BJP.
They use wisdom.In this case who the f** want a failed state like pakistan?huhhh..
give me a reason.
IN navy modernistaion is not for you .INS vikramaditya and INS vikrant will use for some other big purpose.You guys think that whole modernization of India is for pakistan,who are you guys?even 40% of Indian Armed Forces and their assets is enough for pakistan

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

The indian navy never brought their carrier near the Pakistani coast and they never will, so we are not bothered. It is not a threat because they will never take the risk of bringing it close.

The main role of the PN is to safeguard the SLOC's and they will be able to do it pretty easily. The Gwadar Port and the Coastal highway has reduced this risk almost to nil.

PN has no aggressive designs to launch an offensive on the indian coast.

 

[SrNair]

The indian navy never brought their carrier near the Pakistani coast and they never will, so we are not bothered. It is not a threat because they will never take the risk of bringing it close.

The main role of the PN is to safeguard the SLOC's and they will be able to do it pretty easily. The Gwadar Port and the Coastal highway has reduced this risk almost to nil.

PN has no aggressive designs to launch an offensive on the indian coast.

For using mig-29k against pakistan,INS Vikrant or Vikramaditya dont want to come close to the
pakistani coast.mig-29 range is 1240 miles.Again ACC has 500 km EW suite and protected by
destroyers and subs,It is easy to boast about so called PN ability in PDF.But in real war applications
these is not that easy .1 CBG is enough for PN.and PN also know that

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

For using mig-29k against pakistan,INS Vikrant or Vikramaditya dont want to come close to the
pakistani coast.mig-29 range is 1240 miles.Again ACC has 500 km EW suite and protected by
destroyers and subs,It is easy to boast about so called PN ability in PDF.But in real war applications
these is not that easy .1 CBG is enough for PN.and PN also know that

It's easy to boast IN capability on PDF. You said it yourself, in real war it ain't easy.

1240 miles is the "Ferry Range" and I am sure you have no idea what it means...
The "combat radius" is 531 miles with AA payload, which will further reduce with AG missiles...


I have been at sea for 20 years sonny and I know how it is out there.

 

[SrNair]

It's easy to boast IN capability on PDF. You said it yourself, in real war it ain't easy.

1240 miles is the "Ferry Range" and I am sure you have no idea what it means...
The "combat radius" is 531 miles with AA payload, which will further reduce with AG missiles...


I have been at sea for 20 years sonny and I know how it is out there.

OK ,531 miles not that bad .And you forget about buddy refuelling and refuelling using tankers ..
Indians dont need to boast about the capability of IN.We know the result of 1971 war.
Its sure 1CBG is enough for pakistan navy.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

OK ,531 miles not that bad .And you forget about buddy refuelling and refuelling using tankers ..
Indians dont need to boast about the capability of IN.We know the result of 1971 war.
Its sure 1CBG is enough for pakistan navy.

So you will air-to air re-fuel your 29's with a full weapon load coming to attack PN Ships..
Where do you get all this weird info.....

1971, the CBG was in the bay of Bengal with no PN presence nor PAF.

Bringing you CBG near Karachi with the present PN & PAF assets, it's altogether another ball game, and I am sure your Admiral's won't be that suicidal.

 

[akand bharat]

So you will air-to air re-fuel your 29's with a full weapon load coming to attack PN Ships..
Where do you get all this weird info.....

1971, the CBG was in the bay of Bengal with no PN presence nor PAF.

Bringing you CBG near Karachi with the present PN & PAF assets, it's altogether another ball game, and I am sure your Admiral's won't be that suicidal.

Another Fan Boy

 

[kaykay]

So you will air-to air re-fuel your 29's with a full weapon load coming to attack PN Ships..
Where do you get all this weird info.....

1971, the CBG was in the bay of Bengal with no PN presence nor PAF.

Bringing you CBG near Karachi with the present PN & PAF assets, it's altogether another ball game, and I am sure your Admiral's won't be that suicidal.

why?? Whats wrong with buddy refueling with full load?? 4 Mig-29Ks can do that to 4 other Mig-29Ks simultaneously with full load and also buddy refueling will be required for only aircrafts with full load and not aircrafts with other missions(CAP, Maritime strike). And once another CBG will be formed in next 4 years, things will be much easier for us.

 

[SrNair]

So you will air-to air re-fuel your 29's with a full weapon load coming to attack PN Ships..
Where do you get all this weird info.....

1971, the CBG was in the bay of Bengal with no PN presence nor PAF.

Bringing you CBG near Karachi with the present PN & PAF assets, it's altogether another ball game, and I am sure your Admiral's won't be that suicidal.

What an idiot?A fighter with full load cant refuell with tankers ,then give me a reason.If you know all about refuelling technique then please enlighten me.Who want to come closer to karachi,?haha then what is the use of ACC?.
An enemy fighter within 500km of INS Vikramaditya will blind and cant know
whereabout of ships.
Oh sorry I forgot.your so called JF-17 has technology of alien spacecraft

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

So you will air-to air re-fuel your 29's with a full weapon load coming to attack PN Ships..
Where do you get all this weird info.....

1971, the CBG was in the bay of Bengal with no PN presence nor PAF.

Bringing you CBG near Karachi with the present PN & PAF assets, it's altogether another ball game, and I am sure your Admiral's won't be that suicidal.

why to bring near karachi , our PJ-10 from gujrat border enough to wipe out pn navy, and Af bases.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

why to bring near karachi , our PJ-10 from gujrat border enough to wipe out pn navy, and Af bases.

We just need to spray pesticide and your whole west coast would perish.....

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

If people have read about naval blockade of 1971, it is clear that carrier can enforce that even while remaining hundreds of miles away from the harbor. All that is required is destroying any pakistani ships defending the harbor and sinking any merchant vessels supplying Karachi. Once they sink, no more ships will try to enter Karachi and the remaining PN ships will be too afraid to come out of harbor, i.e. naval blockade.

This could be done using mig 29k carrying harpoon or our Frigates carrying Klub or Brahmos.