VIEW : Siachen: a costly war for Pakistan and India

[karan.1970]

No one is ... The fact that Pakistan holds Peak 6620 formally under Indian control but occupied by SSG in 1986 and renamed as " Naveed Post " is enough ... Not to mention , despite your time advantage , the control over 1/3 of the glacier

Yeah.. keep repeating this to yourself.. will sleep better

Yes we tried and almost control half of Kashmir ... If you want to discuss the whole conflict ...

From a poor princely state and in your eagerness handed India just the right excuse to roll into Kashmir and take over large parts of a state that could have easily gone to Pakistan within months if Jinnah didnt get insecure and ordered his irregulars to attack Kashmir.. But anyway, thats a story for a different thread

 

[Ticker]

We already own the heights.. and that's what is important..

Keep the heights please. You are still surrounded from three sides by Pakistan and China.

Please visit the sea as that is the only place you can go out from.

 

[Abingdonboy]

No one is ... The fact that Pakistan holds Peak 6620 formally under Indian control but occupied by SSG in 1986 and renamed as " Naveed Post " is enough ... Not to mention , despite your time advantage , the control over 1/3 of the glacier

Yes we tried and almost control half of Kashmir ... If you want to discuss the whole conflict ...

Since when was controlling <33% of something considered a victory? This is the rationale of losers.

 

[karan.1970]

Ha ha ha ...... squirm to see you approaching from such a far distance with loads of logistics and other stuff.

We enjoy your agony. Remain there for the time being.

As I said, keep repeating it to yourself.. Will help you sleep better..

Keep the heights please. You are still surrounded from three sides by Pakistan and China.

Please visit the sea as that is the only place you can go out from.

Apne aap bhi kabhi kuch kara karo.. hamesha kisi ka kandha chahiye.. Kabhi USA to Kabhi China

 

[Abingdonboy]

Just because you hold the highest peaks brings Pakistan to a disadvantage ? What PA positions do you overlook and with what ? What artillery on either side can bring even remotely accurate fire on the another ? Please , leave this " PA not even on the glacier " propaganda , I have debunked this myth again and again from your own sources ... There is simply no transformation , you are just safe because of the ceasefire ... No soldiers can operate in that terrain at ease and little human cost , keep these delusions to yourself ... I think we are doing fine , we spend much less than your country ... Our logistics go by road and not helicopters ...

Those who control the high ground are in a superior tactical postion. This is the most basic of military strategies.

 

[SamantK]

The please stay there. baraf de golay khao te maujan lutto.

What's the problem.

Maybe you did not hear this, Kayani cam crying to India... and after that came a flood of such articles begging India to go back..

We already own the heights.. and that's what is important..

That guy can only shape the environment, not the important result

 

[surya kiran]

This is not merely a strategic decision

1. Indian troops are sitting at vantage points. At a higher altitude. In that terrain. A 10th pass soldier will tell you taking that post is a mess job. So there is an advantage sitting there, tactically.

2. Indian troops are sitting on the ridge. Basically, meaning the entire Siachen glacier is blocked off from Pak forces. Again, geographical advantage.

3. Fatality rates have dropped drastically, due to increased survivability gear developed and supplied. Mortality advantage.

4. Logistical problem being addressed by purchase of newer choppers for supplies. Problem area, being solved.

5. Lead time to deploy. Technically the amount of time to acclimatize and push troops up. The new 'dabbas' being made to do this quicker in times of emergencies. Again, technical advantage.

6. Ability to maintain that deployment. Economic advantage.

7. India claims complete Kashmir for its own. So the point of withdrawal does not arise, since politically we consider it ours anyways. So territorially sound logic. Its like asking Pakistan to vacate Skardu. Since, we claim its ours. Its not going to happen.

8. No country is going to cry and ask India to leave Siachen, especially after Kargil. Diplomatic advantage.

9. Its a nuisance value for us to use during talks. Negotiation advantage.

10. All the above have a cost, but, the mastercard brag "we man the highest battlefield on earth".....Priceless!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Before you try and muddy the waters more I'd still like an answer:

Who is worried.

I have told you guys so many times, I will say it again.

Baraf de golay khao te maujan lutto.



If India has such a big advantage, why doesn't India rolls down and capture the place.

Pakistan is at a disadvantage from both a strategic and tactical sense. India holds the highest peaks overlooking PA postions, Pakistani posts are not even on the Siachin glacier. Additionally the IA has transformed itslef into one of thr finest mountain warfare forces on earth and as such can operate with ease and with little human cost. To support troops in this envormant is incredibly expensive in monetary terms and hear again Pakistan is at a huge disadvantage over India.


Or to put it another way where is does Pakistan have an advantage over India in this area?

 

[Ticker]

This is not merely a strategic decision

1. Indian troops are sitting at vantage points. At a higher altitude. In that terrain. A 10th pass soldier will tell you taking that post is a mess job. So there is an advantage sitting there, tactically.

2. Indian troops are sitting on the ridge. Basically, meaning the entire Siachen glacier is blocked off from Pak forces. Again, geographical advantage.

3. Fatality rates have dropped drastically, due to increased survivability gear developed and supplied. Mortality advantage.

4. Logistical problem being addressed by purchase of newer choppers for supplies. Problem area, being solved.

5. Lead time to deploy. Technically the amount of time to acclimatize and push troops up. The new 'dabbas' being made to do this quicker in times of emergencies. Again, technical advantage.

6. Ability to maintain that deployment. Economic advantage.

7. India claims complete Kashmir for its own. So the point of withdrawal does not arise, since politically we consider it ours anyways. So territorially sound logic. Its like asking Pakistan to vacate Skardu. Since, we claim its ours. Its not going to happen.

8. No country is going to cry and ask India to leave Siachen, especially after Kargil. Diplomatic advantage.

9. Its a nuisance value for us to use during talks. Negotiation advantage.

10. All the above have a cost, but, the mastercard brag "we man the highest battlefield on earth".....Priceless!

oho .... remain there na.

We don't accept your contention. Siachen is not your territory.

India violated the Simla agreement.

It carried out aggression.

We do not accept your position on Siachen.

Remain there.

itna shor kiyun machaya hua hai.

 

[SamantK]

oho .... remain there na.

We don't accept your contention. Siachen is not your territory.

India violated the Simla agreement.

It carried out aggression.

We do not accept your position on Siachen.

Remain there.

itna shor kiyun machaya hua hai.

Oh man you are getting boring now, please bring Kayani.. he at least pleaded!

 

[SQ8]

This is a surprising comment indeed.

How can a territorial dispute be solved basing on current environment. It can not be. Historical holdings and evidence has to come in while finding any solution to such disputes where territory is involved. .

Your view is based on a Utopian world.
Yet Hyderabad Deccan, Junagarh and Kashmir are testaments to whatever international laws being null and void for Pakistan in those cases.

Perhaps if Pakistan were a complete US ally or maybe not an Islamic republic... these laws may have applied and worked.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Who is worried.

I have told you guys so many times, I will say it again.

Baraf de golay khao te maujan lutto.



If India has such a big advantage, why doesn't India rolls down and capture the place.

oho .... remain there na.

We don't accept your contention. Siachen is not your territory.

India violated the Simla agreement.

It carried out aggression.

We do not accept your position on Siachen.

Remain there.

itna shor kiyun machaya hua hai.

Like Oscar said- it doesn't matter what one side believes the other has done or vice versa it is about where the current advantage lies (militarily/strategically) and right now it lies with the much larger, much more powerful,much more liked nation and how do you see anything ever changing?? If the postions were reversed and Pakistan held the stragic advantage we could say that one day India could become emboldened enough to dislodge the weaker army. It is what it is and like it or not the status quo favors India and I can't see that ever changing.

 

[Ticker]

Your view is based on a Utopian world.
Yet Hyderabad Deccan, Junagarh and Kashmir are testaments to whatever international laws being null and void for Pakistan in those cases.

Perhaps if Pakistan were a complete US ally or maybe not an Islamic republic... these laws may have applied and worked.

No Sir, you are totally wrong and your perceptions are inconsistent with ground realities and the demands of international law.

You underestimate Pakistan's ability and capability.

Linking Siachen with Junagarh and Manavadar or Hyderabad highlights your il-conceived historical perspective and Pakistan's stand thereof.

We have taken almost 35 % of Kashmir which is with us - has the Indians taken it back except this portion of Siachen and a couple of more little posts in some sectors.

China has taken a large portion of land from India in Kashmir. Has the Indians been able to take it back from them.

Have a heart sir and open your eyes to the ground realities as they exist, instead of presenting such poor arguments.

 

[karan.1970]

No Sir, you are totally wrong and your perceptions are inconsistent with ground realities and the demands of international law.

You underestimate Pakistan's ability and capability.

Linking Siachen with Junagarh and Manavadar or Hyderabad highlights your il-conceived historical perspective and Pakistan's stand thereof.

We have taken almost 35 % of Kashmir which is with us - has the Indians taken it back except this portion of Siachen and a couple of more little posts in some sectors.

China has taken a large portion of land from India in Kashmir. Has the Indians been able to take it back from them.

Have a heart sir and open your eyes to the ground realities as they exist, instead of presenting such poor arguments.

Taking it back implies that you believe India is the true owner of Kashmir and Pakistan and CHina have each stolen a piece.. Is that your contention?? Or do you believe Pakistan is the true owner of Kashmir and India has illegally occupied a part of it ?

 

[surya kiran]

No Sir, you are totally wrong and your perceptions are inconsistent with ground realities and the demands of international law.

You underestimate Pakistan's ability and capability.

Linking Siachen with Junagarh and Manavadar or Hyderabad highlights your il-conceived historical perspective and Pakistan's stand thereof.

We have taken almost 35 % of Kashmir which is with us - has the Indians taken it back except this portion of Siachen and a couple of more little posts in some sectors.

China has taken a large portion of land from India in Kashmir. Has the Indians been able to take it back from them.

Have a heart sir and open your eyes to the ground realities as they exist, instead of presenting such poor arguments.

You took that part of Kashmir when there was no Indian Army deployed. Uske baad aap bus phoonk phoonk kar thak gaye ho. All your generals right up to Musharraf have said, hum Srinagar mein lunch karengey. Hotha ye, ki PM Washington midnight buffet khaane bhaagta. The last time I heard we landed up outside Lahore. We should have negotiated complete withdrawal of Pak forces from kashmir. That is the single and only biggest strategic diplomatic decision that the Indian Foreign Office ever messed up.

China took the land from you. You gave it since, you wanted a back up daddy instead of US of A.