VIEW : Siachen: a costly war for Pakistan and India

[karan.1970]

Your Army commander in Indian Occupied Kashmir says something else. He says that India just occupied Siachen in 1984.

He accepted Indian aggression.

He is an authority. You are a just poster on PDF.

What did I say different??. We beat you to the punch and captured the peaks..

Nah , there is

Pakistan had de facto control of the Siachenarea northwest of the line defined by NJ
9842 and the KKP until the Indian occupation of 1984. The following facts substantiate
Pakistan’s position:

• Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru’s address to the Indian Parliament on 7
May 1962 acknowledging Pakistan’s de facto control up to the KKP by stating,
“the defense of which is under the actual control of Pakistan.”9

• The Government of India’s protest note of 10 May 1962 in reaction to the
Government of Pakistan’s communiqué issued on 3 May 1962 regarding entering
into talks with China on the boundary issue. The protest note referred to the area
west of the KKP as “. . . presently under Pakistan’s unlawful occupation.”10

• Indian Prime Minister Nehru’s address to Parliament on 5 March 1963, again
referring to Pakistan’s actual control ofthe area by stating “It then reached the
Karakoram Pass.”11

• Refusal to date of China “to discuss with India the area west of the KKP, which
separated Baltistan (part of Pakistan’sNorthern Areas) from Indian-controlled
Ladakh.”12

• Delhi’s protest to China “at this de facto recognition of Pakistan’s control of
Hunza and Baltistan” in the wake of the Sino-Pakistan Frontier Agreement.13

• No delineation of the CFL and LOC beyond NJ 9842 after the Tashkent
Agreement (1966) and the Simla Agreement (1972), respectively. Colonel Zakir
observed, “Despite India’s strong position, India did not do it” 14 (i.e., delineate
beyond NJ 9842).

• The statement of Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi of 16 November 1989
tacitly acknowledged breach of the Simla Agreement, “We have recovered about
5,000 square kilometers of area from occupied Kashmir in Siachen.” 17

So what were you saying ?

You can quote 5000 lines, but the end game is that we hold the region and Pakistan does not.. Keep spinning it anyway you want.. Wont change the ground realities

 

[SamantK]

If India has such a big advantage, why doesn't India rolls down and capture the place.

India has an advantage where they are.. and unlike Pakistan we don't like to roll just for the sake of it..

 

[Abingdonboy]

If India has such a big advantage, why doesn't India rolls down and capture the place.

Why should India? It is a responsible power and the status quo suits it just fine- why sacrifice men and treasure on capturing a desolate wasteland and open the floodgates for criticism and outrage by the international community. The world has never like bigger players conducting such action against their weaker neighbors.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!

 

[karan.1970]

Most Indian military and strategic analysts now agree that the Siachen Glacier does not
have major strategic significance. Lt. General M. L. Chibber (retd.), who planned the
occupation of Siachen (code-named Operation Meghdoot) in 1984, said flatly in an
interview in December 2004 “Siachen does not have strategic significance.” 22

Lt. General V. R. Raghavan (ret.), a former division commander in the Kargiland Siachen sectors
and a former Director General of MilitaryOperations (DGMO), also minimizes the
military importance of Siachen in his 2002 book Siachen: Conflict Without End.”23

The conclusion is " there's no simply no strategic advantage for India because you cant come down and fight " but since it occupied it " , it has become a matter of prestige otherwise you are merely fighting against the weather , terrain and spending millions just to maintain presence without any gain ...

Its worth its while just for watching Pakistani whine around trying to get India to withdraw because they themselves are not able to maintain a presence..

 

[Paan Singh]

TO pakistanis

First, the contention that Siachen and Saltoro have no strategic value is wrong. If Saltoro had not been occupied by our troops, Pakistan from the west and China from the east would have long since linked up, with the strategic Karakoram Pass under their complete control. The illegal ceding away of the Shaksgam Valley by Pakistan to China has completed the encirclement of this crucial area. It is only our occupation of Saltoro that has driven a wedge between the two. By controlling Saltoro, we have also retained the option of negotiating with China over Shaksgam valley at the appropriate time.

Second, the Pakistani stance that since India is the aggressor, it should vacate the area, is a travesty of truth, as what our troops did in April 1984 was to occupy our own areas; no border or line was crossed as the entire area, not having been delineated, belongs to India.

Third, it is stated that unnecessary casualties are being incurred on account of the treacherous terrain and climate. This is no longer the case with us, as the Indian army has learnt its lessons. Fourth, an additional reason stated is that Rs5 crore is being spent every day on our troops there. While the figure may be disputed, should sovereignty be measured in this manner?

 

[Secur]

Pakistan is at a disadvantage from both a strategic and tactical sense. India holds the highest peaks overlooking PA postions, Pakistani posts are not even on the Siachin glacier. Additionally the IA has transformed itslef into one of thr finest mountain warfare forces on earth and as such can operate with ease and with little human cost. To support troops in this envormant is incredibly expensive in monetary terms and hear again Pakistan is at a huge disadvantage over India.

Just because you hold the highest peaks brings Pakistan to a disadvantage ? What PA positions do you overlook and with what ? What artillery on either side can bring even remotely accurate fire on the another ? Please , leave this " PA not even on the glacier " propaganda , I have debunked this myth again and again from your own sources ... There is simply no transformation , you are just safe because of the ceasefire ... No soldiers can operate in that terrain at ease and little human cost , keep these delusions to yourself ... I think we are doing fine , we spend much less than your country ... Our logistics go by road and not helicopters ...

 

[karan.1970]

How naive are you.

The reality of aggression by India can not be rewarded. We are not going anywhere - we are right here and will get it back when we so desire. Otherwise you would not have your forces deployed there.

This is the reality.

Who is looking for a reward from you.. We already have it in the form of Indian flag flying on the heights of the glacier and the fact that the Quaid post now goes by the name of Bana Post...

And its not that you havent tried..You have done it many times but failed (including the kargil misadventure) ...

 

[Paan Singh]

The most important point we have to keep in mind is that while it suits Pakistan to get our troops to vacate the commanding heights of the Saltoro Ridge, we would lose them permanently if we do so, as regaining them would be militarily extremely difficult. Despite this, if there is a compulsion to resolve the issue, then the first action must be to delineate the AGPL, before any shifting of troops takes place. Pakistan has so far refused to accept this, perhaps with an ulterior motive of occupying it at some future date!

 

[karan.1970]

You can keep Siachen for the time being and until then baraf day golay khao te maujjan lutto.

Yeh pehli acchi baat boli hai aapne

 

[Ticker]

India has an advantage where they are.. and unlike Pakistan we don't like to roll just for the sake of it..

The please stay there. baraf de golay khao te maujan lutto.

What's the problem.

 

[Paan Singh]

Just because you hold the highest peaks brings Pakistan to a disadvantage ? What PA positions do you overlook and with what ? What artillery on either side can bring even remotely accurate fire on the another ? Please , leave this " PA not even on the glacier " propaganda , I have debunked this myth again and again from your own sources ... There is simply no transformation , you are just safe because of the ceasefire ... No soldiers can operate in that terrain at ease and little human cost , keep these delusions to yourself ... I think we are doing fine , we spend much less than your country ... Our logistics go by road and not helicopters ...

You have tried enough times to get siachin back but cudnt do so

Even kargil operation was done to get siachin back but again it licked the foot of our army and i mentioned above the importance why it shudnt be abandoned.

 

[karan.1970]

Thanks !

I was just teaching Indians their own history whilst they are satisfied by their dramatic and sensationalist media ...

We know the kind of history that is taught in Pakistan.. There was a recent BBC article on that

Exactly ! What advantage does India have in occupying the highest peaks in the area is beyond me ? Can they come down and fight in case of any way ? ... What are they protecting what from ?

Its just for fun.. watching Pakistani Army squirm is reward enough..

 

[Secur]

Who is looking for a reward from you.. We already have it in the form of Indian flag flying on the heights of the glacier and the fact that the Quaid post now goes by the name of Bana Post...

And its not that you havent tried..You have done it many times but failed (including the kargil misadventure) ...

No one is ... The fact that Pakistan holds Peak 6620 formally under Indian control but occupied by SSG in 1986 and renamed as " Naveed Post " is enough ... Not to mention , despite your time advantage , the control over 1/3 of the glacier

Yes we tried and almost control half of Kashmir ... If you want to discuss the whole conflict ...

 

[karan.1970]

If India has such a big advantage, why doesn't India rolls down and capture the place.

We already own the heights.. and that's what is important..

 

[Ticker]

We know the kind of history that is taught in Pakistan.. There was a recent BBC article on that

We know what bigoted history the Indian schools and colleges are taught through their ganga mein dhuli text books. And we don't need to see any BBC documentary to convince ourselves. The Indians have done it pretty well by highlighting these aspects in their own press.

Its just for fun.. watching Pakistani Army squirm is reward enough..[/QUOTE]

Ha ha ha ...... squirm to see you approaching from such a far distance with loads of logistics and other stuff.

We enjoy your agony. Remain there for the time being.