VIEW : Siachen: a costly war for Pakistan and India

[karan.1970]

You agree you were the aggressor then , who's interested in your " violation of LOC " theories now ? ...

There is no LOC in Siachen.. Finishes much before it.. You guys really need to fix Pakistan's education system.. Atleast around Social studies like History and geography..

Pakistani diplomats have more clue of things than you can possibly imagine ... Only if the thread was on the entire Kashmir issue

You mean the issue that is so stale that it hasnt been discussed in UNSC for over 5 decades now ?? Yes.. Your diplomats do have a clue

 

[SamantK]

You agree you were the aggressor then , who's interested in your " violation of LOC " theories now ? ...

Pakistani diplomats have more clue of things than you can possibly imagine ... Only if the thread was on the entire Kashmir issue

Duh, what part of the words Diplomatic offensive you did not understand?

 

[Ticker]

Please try, why wait its been 12 years now..

Probably your press is not telling you everything.

Duh, what part of the words Diplomatic offensive you did not understand?

The one which is not there at all.

 

[Secur]

There is no LOC in Siachen.. Finishes much before it.. You guys really need to fix Pakistan's education system.. Atleast around Social studies like History and geography..

Depends on the interpretation of where exactly the LOC is ... But to say that temporary borders do not exist there , only shows your ignorance ... Actually , you guys are in dire need of it , based on the IQ theory

 

[SamantK]

Probably your press is not telling you everything.

No they tell us everything, including the rush at the Army recruitment drive in J&K..

The one which is not there at all.

Some Pakistanis think more than there is to and unnecessary over cook the geese

 

[Ticker]

No they tell us everything, including the rush at the Army recruitment drive in J&K..

Some Pakistanis think more than there is to and unnecessary over cook the geese

They are not telling you about the recent attacks by Kashmiri freedom fighters on your security forces - they probably do not want to demoralize you and let you live in your make-believe world.

 

[karan.1970]

Depends on the interpretation of where exactly the LOC is ... But to say that temporary borders do not exist there , only shows your ignorance ... Actually , you guys are in dire need of it , based on the IQ theory

There is no interpretation for LOC.. The area of Siachen is beyond the end point of LOC. Prior to 1984, there were no demarked borders there.. Both armies made a bee line for the heights and Pakistan lost.. Now you can spin it anyway you want..

 

[SamantK]

They are not telling you about the recent attacks by Kashmiri freedom fighters on your security forces - they probably do not want to demoralize you and let you live in your make-believe world.

Isn't that why our Forces are present, to counter and kill the terrorists who are now coming in like rats.. Nothing new to show actually. BTW haven't you heard about the mass graves?

 

[Ticker]

There is no interpretation for LOC.. The area of Siachen is beyond the end point of LOC. Prior to 1984, there were no demarked borders there.. Both armies made a bee line for the heights and Pakistan lost.. Now you can spin it anyway you want..

Your Army commander in Indian Occupied Kashmir says something else. He says that India just occupied Siachen in 1984.

He accepted Indian aggression.

He is an authority. You are a just poster on PDF.

 

[SamantK]

Your Army commander in Indian Occupied Kashmir says something else. He says that India just occupied Siachen in 1984.

He accepted Indian aggression.

He is an authority. You are a just poster on PDF.

Yeah we occupied after 1965, cause by that time we knew how sneaky our Neighbor was..

At least we used regulars We don't hide sorry, sneak!

 

[SQ8]

But now that India holds all the cards and the IA has been able to master the unique challenges of operating in the area resulting in not a single death from altidude related issues for over 8 years now why should India do anything but hold?

And that detective , is the right question.

Whether India violated , murdered defiled or whatever..
its history .

Today, it holds the upper hand and Pakistan does not.
That situation has to be analyzed in that context and not in the history of treaties and violations.

 

[Ticker]

And that detective , is the right question.

Whether India violated , murdered defiled or whatever..
its history .

Today, it holds the upper hand and Pakistan does not.
That situation has to be analyzed in that context and not in the history of treaties and violations.

This is a surprising comment indeed.

How can a territorial dispute be solved basing on current environment. It can not be. Historical holdings and evidence has to come in while finding any solution to such disputes where territory is involved.

is tarah to koi bhi mulk dusray mulk ke kisis bhi hissay par kabza kar ke kahay ga ke chunka ab mera kabza hai, tum bhag jao.

In international law, it does not happen this way.

 

[Secur]

There is no interpretation for LOC.. The area of Siachen is beyond the end point of LOC. Prior to 1984, there were no demarked borders there.. Both armies made a bee line for the heights and Pakistan lost.. Now you can spin it anyway you want..

Nah , there is

Pakistan had de facto control of the Siachenarea northwest of the line defined by NJ
9842 and the KKP until the Indian occupation of 1984. The following facts substantiate
Pakistan’s position:

• Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru’s address to the Indian Parliament on 7
May 1962 acknowledging Pakistan’s de facto control up to the KKP by stating,
“the defense of which is under the actual control of Pakistan.”9

• The Government of India’s protest note of 10 May 1962 in reaction to the
Government of Pakistan’s communiqué issued on 3 May 1962 regarding entering
into talks with China on the boundary issue. The protest note referred to the area
west of the KKP as “. . . presently under Pakistan’s unlawful occupation.”10

• Indian Prime Minister Nehru’s address to Parliament on 5 March 1963, again
referring to Pakistan’s actual control ofthe area by stating “It then reached the
Karakoram Pass.”11

• Refusal to date of China “to discuss with India the area west of the KKP, which
separated Baltistan (part of Pakistan’sNorthern Areas) from Indian-controlled
Ladakh.”12

• Delhi’s protest to China “at this de facto recognition of Pakistan’s control of
Hunza and Baltistan” in the wake of the Sino-Pakistan Frontier Agreement.13

• No delineation of the CFL and LOC beyond NJ 9842 after the Tashkent
Agreement (1966) and the Simla Agreement (1972), respectively. Colonel Zakir
observed, “Despite India’s strong position, India did not do it” 14 (i.e., delineate
beyond NJ 9842).

• The statement of Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi of 16 November 1989
tacitly acknowledged breach of the Simla Agreement, “We have recovered about
5,000 square kilometers of area from occupied Kashmir in Siachen.” 17

So what were you saying ?

Today, it holds the upper hand and Pakistan does not.

Where exactly is Pakistan at a disadvantage ? We still maintain control over 1/3 of the Siachen Glacier and nullify any strategic advantage gained from the occupation of the said area ... The logistics costs is much less and the casualties are low ...

 

[Contrarian]

This is a surprising comment indeed.

How can a territorial dispute be solved basing on current environment. It can not be. Historical holdings and evidence has to come in while finding any solution to such disputes where territory is involved.

is tarah to koi bhi mulk dusray mulk ke kisis bhi hissay par kabza kar ke kahay ga ke chunka ab mera kabza hai, tum bhag jao.

In international law, it does not happen this way.

That my friend i am sorry to say is reality. Posession is 9/10ths of the law.
A bigger country is able to bully a smaller country. Think of it this way, which country or UN can or will force India to vacate Siachen.

No global power wants to upset the apple cart. It could have happened if Pakistan had a clear, undisputable legal right to Siachen. As things stand, none of the 2 countries have it. So no country will force India to vacate.

None can force India but Pakistan. Pakistan could have done it using military force only as diplomatic coercion will not work for above mentioned reasons. Military force has not succeeded in that area despite Pakistan trying. The cost for India is not high in economics and in human lives its now almost negligible. The cost for Pakistan is high.

That area doesnt even have a human population that wants India out. India's military deems it strategically important.

What incentive does India have to let go?

 

[Ticker]

Nah , there is

Pakistan had de facto control of the Siachenarea northwest of the line defined by NJ
9842 and the KKP until the Indian occupation of 1984. The following facts substantiate
Pakistan’s position:

• Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru’s address to the Indian Parliament on 7
May 1962 acknowledging Pakistan’s de facto control up to the KKP by stating,
“the defense of which is under the actual control of Pakistan.”9

• The Government of India’s protest note of 10 May 1962 in reaction to the
Government of Pakistan’s communiqué issued on 3 May 1962 regarding entering
into talks with China on the boundary issue. The protest note referred to the area
west of the KKP as “. . . presently under Pakistan’s unlawful occupation.”10

• Indian Prime Minister Nehru’s address to Parliament on 5 March 1963, again
referring to Pakistan’s actual control ofthe area by stating “It then reached the
Karakoram Pass.”11

• Refusal to date of China “to discuss with India the area west of the KKP, which
separated Baltistan (part of Pakistan’sNorthern Areas) from Indian-controlled
Ladakh.”12

• Delhi’s protest to China “at this de facto recognition of Pakistan’s control of
Hunza and Baltistan” in the wake of the Sino-Pakistan Frontier Agreement.13

• No delineation of the CFL and LOC beyond NJ 9842 after the Tashkent
Agreement (1966) and the Simla Agreement (1972), respectively. Colonel Zakir
observed, “Despite India’s strong position, India did not do it” 14 (i.e., delineate
beyond NJ 9842).

• The statement of Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi of 16 November 1989
tacitly acknowledged breach of the Simla Agreement, “We have recovered about
5,000 square kilometers of area from occupied Kashmir in Siachen.” 17

So what were you saying ?



Where exactly is Pakistan at a disadvantage ? We still maintain control over 1/3 of the Siachen Glacier and nullify any strategic advantage gained from the occupation of the said area ... The logistics costs is much less and the casualties are low ...

Excellent expose of reality.