Vietnamese conquest of Muslim/Hindu Cham and their current situation

[Soryu]

I have created a thread on Korean returning to Chinese characters. Next is your turn. Like it or not, the Vietnamese will go back to Chu Nom.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/266645-korea-returning-chinese-character.html

It'll not happen ...

 

[Snomannen]

To be cool Cantonese boy. Following your posts on PDF you are proud for "Golden Family" ruled China, but recently Mongolian and Manchus ruled you, they are no Hans people.

When you speak Cantonese in Yangzi area, native land of Han People Zhongyuan, people there can not understand what you say, they believe that you are foreigner.

I am proud of nobody you ignorant creature, telling something truth doesn't mean you are proud of something you idiot. I really doubt that if you have really ever used that thing inside your head, and I really don't care which ethnic the emperor was, since I'm not a worshiper of bloodline like you.

Japanese only understand standard Japanese can't understand Kansaiben, will they consider Kansai people are foreigner. Quebec people's mother language is French, are they considered as foreigner to other Canadian. Even there are many dialects in Cantonese, are we foreigners to each other as well.

One thing for sure is YOU are really a stupid foreigner to us, and foreigner like you keep talking stupid nonsenses with your lack of IQ. Like a dog barking around.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Seem like u dont know much abt Bai Yue people who living in VN and South China.

Even China also accept that BaiYue people are different group with Chinese in the North

BaiYue people in the South delude themselves and believe that they have same blood wt Northern Chinese, poor them

Well, i look like Northern Chinese, i don't have to delude myself.

 

[Wholegrain]

To be cool Cantonese boy. Following your posts on PDF you are proud for "Golden Family" ruled China, but recently Mongolian and Manchus ruled you, they are no Hans people.

When you speak Cantonese in Yangzi area, native land of Han People Zhongyuan, people there can not understand what you say, they believe that you are foreigner.

China and France ruled you and you use your former master's alphabet to write your language.

Cantonese is even closer to Classical Chinese (wenyan) than Mandarin, you don't know crap about Chinese languages

 

[EastSea]

I am proud of nobody you ignorant creature, telling something truth doesn't mean you are proud of something you idiot. I really doubt that if you have really ever used that thing inside your head, and I really don't care which ethnic the emperor was, since I'm not a worshiper of bloodline like you.

Japanese only understand standard Japanese can't understand Kansaiben, will they consider Kansai people are foreigner. Quebec people's mother language is French, are they considered as foreigner to other Canadian. Even there are many dialects in Cantonese, are we foreigners to each other as well.

One thing for sure is YOU are really a stupid foreigner to us, and foreigner like you keep talking stupid nonsenses with your lack of IQ. Like a dog barking around.

Quebec is Canada's second most populous province, after Ontario. It is the only Canadian province that has a predominantly French speaking population and French as the sole official language at the provincial level. Quebec people came to Canada from France.

Quebec independence debates have played a large role in the politics of the province. Cantonese can not say about independence of NanYue Guo, Han chinese will kill you. You are afraid.

 

[EastSea]

China and France ruled you and you use your former master's alphabet to write your language.

Cantonese is even closer to Classical Chinese (wenyan) than Mandarin, you don't know crap about Chinese languages

You are ruled by Mongolian, Manchus, Japanese, Britain, Portugal until 1999. Today china is divided country. Taiwan is under protectorate of USA, you are half-slaves of USA now.

 

[jhungary]

I am proud of nobody you ignorant creature, telling something truth doesn't mean you are proud of something you idiot. I really doubt that if you have really ever used that thing inside your head, and I really don't care which ethnic the emperor was, since I'm not a worshiper of bloodline like you.

Japanese only understand standard Japanese can't understand Kansaiben, will they consider Kansai people are foreigner. Quebec people's mother language is French, are they considered as foreigner to other Canadian. Even there are many dialects in Cantonese, are we foreigners to each other as well.

One thing for sure is YOU are really a stupid foreigner to us, and foreigner like you keep talking stupid nonsenses with your lack of IQ. Like a dog barking around.

No offend, but using Canada and Quebec is not a good example.....French and English are both Official Language for Canada... And people from other Canadian province also speak a certain level of French, may not be as fluent as Québécois. But they do speak some degree of fluency in French

If I was to make your point, I would probably use Puerto Rican and American, or South Africa

 

[Snomannen]

No offend, but using Canada and Quebec is not a good example.....French and English are both Official Language for Canada... And people from other Canadian province also speak a certain level of French, may not be as fluent as Québécois. But they do speak some degree of fluency in French

If I was to make your point, I would probably use Puerto Rican and American, or South Africa

Yes I know, they have both languages in their passport. But that doesn't matter since my point is correct.

 

[Snomannen]

Quebec is Canada's second most populous province, after Ontario. It is the only Canadian province that has a predominantly French speaking population and French as the sole official language at the provincial level. Quebec people came to Canada from France.

Quebec independence debates have played a large role in the politics of the province. Cantonese can not say about independence of NanYue Guo, Han chinese will kill you. You are afraid.

As I have mentioned it doesn't matter since I have listed more than one example and my point is current with no doubt~ I have been to Canada more than once, I know more than you.
Oh yeah and Kansai people and Hokkaido never declare independence because they are afraid of 'Japanese', so did Southern American (CSA). Best logic ever. Your nonsenses really never disappoint me.

Stupid creatures always dream about the secession of China, how pity.

 

[Wholegrain]

You are ruled by Mongolian, Manchus, Japanese, Britain, Portugal until 1999. Today china is divided country. Taiwan is under protectorate of USA, you are half-slaves of USA now.

Vietnam claims Paracel islands and Taiping, and these are controlled by mainland China and taiwan. This means Vietnam is stll under foreign rule.

 

[Snomannen]

^and:

(Inner) Mongolian and Manchurian are Chinese, also Chinese, Japanese and French used to rule the wholeVietnam for total more than 1000 years.

 

[grandmaster]

watch this video, see Khmer people in cambodia want to regain their Koh Trol island (Phu Quoc in Vietnamese). China needs to hep them out

PM Hun Sen Speak about (Koh Trol Phu Quoc and Khmer Krom) - YouTube

about Koh TRol or Phuquoc see this map

Koh Trol is Phu Quoc island in Vietnamese. If you look at the map of Southeast Asia it’s the island that is located next to Cambodia’s coast adn the northern tip of Southern Vietnam. Who owns the island has been in question since France gave indepedence to both countries. Vietnam claims that it is theirs because it’s was administered under Cochin China colony but Cambodia’s claim that it is hers because of location and how the borders were never defined

 

[Wholegrain]

History and News about the Cham and Chapma Kingdom written by Musa Porome and other Cham Americans. (Most of Cham Americans are Muslims)

@grandmaster

History | L

News | Tin t

Petition for Musa Porome and other Chams over treatment of Cham Americans returning to Vietnam.

Petition Mr. Qasim Tu was harassed by Vietnamese officer !

Mr. Qasim Tu was harassed by Vietnamese officer !

To Dpt. Office of Civil Rights USA
Letter of Petition by Qasim Tu

Dear Sirs
My name is Qasim Tu, born in Viet Nam, belong to an ethnic minority called the Cham. In 1994, my mother and I left Viet Nam, resettled in the US under the Orderly Departure Program (ODP). Later, I naturalized to become the citizen of US in 2000. After many years, I've been granted Visa to return to Viet Nam as many other Vietnameses who returned to visit our homeland. However, during this visiting, I was harassed by a Vietnamese officer for whom I decided to write this petition letter.

After a few days arrival in Viet Nam, my brother-in-law and I went to the People Hospital 115, located at Nguyen Tri Phuong street, district 10, Ho Chi Minh city in the morning of August 29, 2006, waiting for good news from my poor father-in-law who had been in critical condition there due to heart problems. While waiting, I got a phone call in the hospital, a man on the other line introduced himself as officer Quang or Nguyen Trung Quang, a security officer who worked for Department of Interior of Viet Nam. Mr. Nguyen said that he wanted to see me immediately. Since, we were in the emergency room; I replied that I could not see him at this moment. Having failed in securing an appointment to see me, Mr. Nguyen threatened bluntly: Actually, I do not want to see you, however, Ive got a letter from abroad accusing you of illegal activities therefore I want to meet with you in order to clarify the issues. If you dont want to see me now then on the day you return, there will be custom agents who will work with you at the airport. I can not guarantee your safe return to the US!
After the crisis of my father-in-law at the hospital was over, I called Mr. Nguyen, requesting to see him at a coffee shop to clarify with him whatever he got on me.
At about 2:30pm, Mr. Nguyen Trung Quang and Nguyen Xuan Trieu, another security officer came. I brought with me two of my friends to this rendezvous. Wasted no time, Mr. Quang said to me as he sat down,: Ive got a letter from abroad accusing that you established an organization then forced people to donate their money for your private activities. Is it true I asked him politely: Can I see the letter that you are talking about He replied: You dont have the privilege to see that letter! I said: Whatever you are telling me or whatever contains in that letter is completely false. I can prove to you that I did not establish such an organization that forces people to donate their money for my private activities

Returning to visit our homeland is the dreams come true for those who fled their country. After so many years living in the United States, Ive been granted Visa to return to Viet Nam as many other Vietnameses who returned to visit our homeland. Ive complied with the Vietnamese laws as a tourist. However, Mr. Nguyen Trung Quang, a junior officer who works in the Department of Interior abused his authority. He harassed, threatened in attempt to frame me for the activity that I did not do. He violated my right in the broad daylight.

I am a US citizen, living and working in US. If I found an organization that collects peoples money illegally then I must be brought to justice by the laws of the US. Mr. Nguyen Trung Quang, a junior officer who works for the Vietnamese government has no jurisdiction over my activity in the US. However, he had the audacity to harass, threaten a US citizen who has done nothing wrong but to visit my ancestral homeland. Mr. Nguyen clearly went too far, abused his authority and violated my right.
I was born in Viet Nam, resettled in the US but my ethnicity is Cham origin. The entire Cham population in the US is approximately five thousands. Most of us who return to Viet Nam were followed or questioned like a criminal as in my case and others such as Hassan Po Klaun (my father), Musa Porome, Dr. Po Dharma, On the other hand, when the Vietnameses return to visit Viet Nam, they did not face such a hardship or if there is, it is well-found. One may ask, why exist such a double standard when dealing with the Cham The only logical explanation is we, the Cham who lives inside or outside Viet Nam, are subjected to political targets. We always being harassed for frivolous misdemeanor, and do not have same right and were not treated equally as the Vietnamese.
Former President Ho Chi Minh stated: Viet Nam (nation) is One; her people are One. Mountain can change and river can dry, but that (the truth) can never be changed. In the meantime, The Party and Government allow those who are in power to fall through the crack, abuse this excellent motto, discriminate Ethnic Minority Because of the mistreatment of Minorities, The Party and Government has inarguably made us think that the Cham and other Minorities who reside inside Viet Nam as only the Second Class citizens.

The Vietnamese government encourages foreign companies, corporations from oversea to invest, do business in Viet Nam, and promote better treatment for Diaspora Vietnamese to return home. Moreover, Viet Nam is trying to be a member of World Trade Organization (WTO).
As a witness to this injustice, Cham people in Diaspora from all over the world and I kindly request The State Dpt. Human Right Organizations and other International Organizations object the mistreatment of Minorities by Viet Nam government so we can enjoy safe return to visit our ancestral homeland.

Truly Yours,

Qasim Tu

Report on the situation of Muslim and Hindu Chams in Vietnam

Mission to Vietnam Advocacy Day (Vietnamese-American Meet up 2013) in the U.S. Capitol. A UPR report By IOC-Campa.

Mission to Vietnam Advocacy Day (Vietnamese-American Meet up 2013) in the U.S. Capitol. A UPR report By IOC-Campa.
Written by Khaleelah Porome

Khaleelah Porome
The IOC, is an organization that promotes the preservation of the Kingdom of Champa’s history and culture. The Champa people are an indigenous group of people that have existed in Vietnam since the 7th century. It remained in its glory days until its fall in the 10th century to its northern neighbor, Dai Viet (present day Vietnam). In 1653, Champa became a vassal state of the Nguyen until, in 1832,

Emperor Minh Menh annexed its remaining territories. This caused the erasure of the Kingdom of Champa from the map. Today all that remains of the Kingdom of Champa are it’s archaeological sites and the survivors of Emperor Minh Menh’s ethnic cleansing policies. After 1975, when Saigon fell to the communist government of North Vietnam, the Cham lost their farms, land and properties, because they were confiscated by the government. They have been prohibited to worship and practice their religions. Practicing Hindu Cham had several ancient temples that were used for worship, confiscated and converted into tourist destinations by the Vietnamese government for their own financial benefit, violating the Cham Hindu beliefs.

About 130,000 Cham people in Vietnam currently exist in Binh Thuan and Ninh Thuan provinces (central Vietnam); Chau Doc, Ho Chi Minh City, and Tay Ninh (Southern Vietnam). The rest have fled seeking refuge in the U.S., Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia, and across Europe.

The Cham people are currently recognized by the Vietnamese government as minority group, even though they are indeed and in fact, indigenous. They meet all requirements by the UN standards and criteria, to be considered indigenous, however the Vietnamese government refuses to acknowledge this.

Recent human rights violations by the Vietnamese government against the Cham people:

In 2012, the local police used their power to bust into a local Mosque and took away a generator that provided electricity to over 40 families in the village of Chau Giang, and not long after that they came and kidnapped young village girls at their discretion to rape and sexually abuse them, eventually releasing them.
On 2009, a farm land owned by 13 Cham families From Vân Lâm villages was confiscated, when they tried to stand up for their ownership, they were apprehended by the police and discarded in an undisclosed remote location in the jungle.
In 2010, two young Cham college students from Thành Tín village are on vacation took a walk from their village to the city being stop and beat up to death.
In March 2013, a poor Cham college student Thành Xuân Thịnh from Phươc Nhơn village took out a loan for school, upon graduation he was unable to get a job and sought the help of staffing agency to place him in a position, so he could pay back his student loans. The agency had promised to staff him within weeks. After a few months, he was still unemployed, and when he approached the agency about a refund, they set him on fire, and he burned to death.
Cham people who have escaped Vietnam and have become U.S. citizens, have tried to return to their native land, of Vietnam to visit family and friends. Each time they return to Vietnam they are discriminated against, harassed, and even imprisoned. Mr. Nguyen V. Xung, an exchange student to Saudi Arabia in 1973 went back to Vietnam to visit his aging mother, was kept in the hotel overnight then was eventually deported out a day after that. Mr. Musa Porome, went to Vietnam in 1989 was kept at a hotel for 5 days while being interrogated by police agents and was eventually deported out of the country. Mr. Qasim Tu went to Vietnam in 2004, and was harassed and subjected to intimidation by Vietnamese secret agent over several days, and unable to visit his family. When Mrs. Man Jone tried to visit she was arrested and imprisoned under the accusations that she was trying to introduce a new religion to the community.
The Vietnamese government is currently building a nuclear power plant in a Cham village, with old and used technology from old North Korean power plants. Many people have fought against it, including Vietnamese politicians and scientists, citing the long term adverse affects it would have on the local villages and eventually extended further into the major cities of Vietnam. People that have spoken out publicly or post anything on social media sites, are immediately approached by and harassed by the Vietnam government. A prime example is when Mr. Musa Porome wrote a letter questioning the reasoning for the development of the nuclear power plant in a currently populated area, and speaking out about it. The government immediately fired back by threatening and intimidating him and his remaining family that still resides in Vietnam. They later tried to retract the statement, when he did not back down. But, he was unable to go back to Vietnam back in November 2012, for fear that they would do something to him if he went to visit.
There are ancient Cham towers that still remain in these indigenous areas. These towers are currently being funded by UNESCO for up keep and maintenance to benefit the tourism industry. These towers are highly visited by tourist all over the world. The profit received does not benefit any of the Cham people, nor the villages in which the towers exist. It is a direct violation of the terms of agreement for the UNESCO funding.
These are just a few of the incidences against the Cham people, that have recently been relayed and documented. Many go undocumented because most people are in fear of their lives and their families lives if they speak out and protest the wrongful actions of the government.

Cham genetics, these studies talk about both Y chromosome, mtdna and autosomal dna.

PLOS ONE: Patrilineal Perspective on the Austronesian Diffusion in Mainland Southeast Asia

Patrilineal Perspective on the Austronesian Diffusion in Mainland Southeast Asia
Jun-Dong He equal contributor, Min-Sheng Peng equal contributor, Huy Ho Quang, Khoa Pham Dang, An Vu Trieu, Shi-Fang Wu, Jie-Qiong Jin, Robert W. Murphy, Yong-Gang Yao, Ya-Ping Zhang

Abstract

The Cham people are the major Austronesian speakers of Mainland Southeast Asia (MSEA) and the reconstruction of the Cham population history can provide insights into their diffusion. In this study, we analyzed non-recombining region of the Y chromosome markers of 177 unrelated males from four populations in MSEA, including 59 Cham, 76 Kinh, 25 Lao, and 17 Thai individuals. Incorporating published data from mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), our results indicated that, in general, the Chams are an indigenous Southeast Asian population. The origin of the Cham people involves the genetic admixture of the Austronesian immigrants from Island Southeast Asia (ISEA) with the local populations in MSEA. Discordance between the overall patterns of Y chromosome and mtDNA in the Chams is evidenced by the presence of some Y chromosome lineages that prevail in South Asians. Our results suggest that male-mediated dispersals via the spread of religions and business trade might play an important role in shaping the patrilineal gene pool of the Cham people.

Citation: He J-D, Peng M-S, Quang HH, Dang KP, Trieu AV, et al. (2012) Patrilineal Perspective on the Austronesian Diffusion in Mainland Southeast Asia. PLoS ONE 7(5): e36437. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0036437

Editor: Manfred Kayser, Erasmus University Medical Center, The Netherlands

Received: September 16, 2011; Accepted: April 2, 2012; Published: May 7, 2012

Copyright: © 2012 He et al. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.

Funding: This research was supported by grants from National Natural Science Foundation of China, and Bureau of Science and Technology of Yunnan Province. The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.

Competing interests: The authors have declared that no competing interests exist.

Tracing the Austronesian Footprint in Mainland Southeast Asia: A Perspective from Mitochondrial DNA

 

[EastSea]

As I have mentioned it doesn't matter since I have listed more than one example and my point is current with no doubt~ I have been to Canada more than once, I know more than you.
Oh yeah and Kansai people and Hokkaido never declare independence because they are afraid of 'Japanese', so did Southern American (CSA). Best logic ever. Your nonsenses really never disappoint me.

Stupid creatures always dream about the secession of China, how pity.

You are stupid boy, Kansai dialect related to that Capital of Japan moved from Kyoto to Tokyo. There is competition in Japan that who speak standard Japanese, even though now standard Japanese is base on dialect of region Tokyo today. The differences of two dialect are mainly on pronunciation. In phonetic terms, Kansai dialect is characterized by strong vowels and contrasted with Tokyo dialect, characterized by its strong consonants, but the basis of the phonemes is similar. .Tokyo people can even occasionally imitate Kansai dialect to provoke laughter or inject humor.

For you, Han Chinese can not understand what Cantonese is talking about. Madarin (Hans language) and Cantonese is the two languages are not mutually intelligible because of pronunciation, grammatical, and also lexical differences. Sentence structure, in particular the placement of verbs, sometimes differs between the two languages.

Vietnam claims Paracel islands and Taiping, and these are controlled by mainland China and taiwan. This means Vietnam is stll under foreign rule.

No, kid.
China occupation on our Islands with force is illegal.

You said that Yuan and Man Qing dynasty is "Golden Family" and proud for that they ruled you in the past. And recently Without victory of USSR in Manchuria and two nuke of USA, you Mr. Wholgrain speak and write Japanese as mother language.

^and:

(Inner) Mongolian and Manchurian are Chinese, also Chinese, Japanese and French used to rule the wholeVietnam for total more than 1000 years.

It's more again shameful for you, accepted that invaders Hans, Mongolian, Manchus ... ruled you.

Vietnamese, we have been fought against all kind of aggressors from Han, Yuan, Man, France... They were bigger than us to regain our independence. But you NanYue and WoYue people can not do the same way like this.

 

[Zero_wing]

man other pointless imperial tactics