vehicle prices .. simply unaffordable by middle class now ,,

[American Pakistani]

Its crazy!! WagonR is Rs 1.6 million!!

The car assemblers raised prices at dollar depreciation. But now dollar is going down and will go down further. So my question is when the dollar goes down, the prices are never decreased. But as soon as dollar goes up, car prices are increased?? This is car assembler industry is a mafia as is everything is in Pakistan.

Those working in those plants should've forced and influenced their companies to manufacture in Pakistan or join hands and build up their own company.

 

[mastaan]

This is a golden opportunity for a bunch of Pakistani entrepreneurs to come together and set up a local manufacturing unit. Yes, you will be importing a lot of stuff initially, but think of it
- You can import parts at much less duty (on imported parts vs imported cars)
- Assembly cost will be dramatically lower (as compared to Imported cars)
- best of all, parts produced locally, can be exported back to the world at very very competitive rates and bring in new Dollars and Euros in income
- As more parts get localised, you might just star becoming a manufacturing exporting hub - your prices will be more competitive than chines, as your cost of labor is arguably one of the lowest in Asia
- Your ports can be used more
--- of course there are many many other benefits

There is no point in waiting for governments to solve everything. At times, great entrepreneurs can rise above everything else and change the face of an industry - Look at what Tesla is doing to electric car market, or what ford did to create American car industry or Reliance did in petroleum industry - Took the initiative away from the govt and made great wealth, employment and lots of tax dollars...

 

[Crusher]

Or use this vehicle
View attachment 567996

And there is also a cheaper substitute of it
View attachment 567997

Both horse and donkey have "sh1t" problem so cause a lot of dirt, also need to be fed on daily basis. Cycle on the other hand is very clean and inexpensive means of transport.

 

[313ghazi]

This is a golden opportunity for a bunch of Pakistani entrepreneurs to come together and set up a local manufacturing unit. Yes, you will be importing a lot of stuff initially, but think of it
- You can import parts at much less duty (on imported parts vs imported cars)
- Assembly cost will be dramatically lower (as compared to Imported cars)
- best of all, parts produced locally, can be exported back to the world at very very competitive rates and bring in new Dollars and Euros in income
- As more parts get localised, you might just star becoming a manufacturing exporting hub - your prices will be more competitive than chines, as your cost of labor is arguably one of the lowest in Asia
- Your ports can be used more
--- of course there are many many other benefits

There is no point in waiting for governments to solve everything. At times, great entrepreneurs can rise above everything else and change the face of an industry - Look at what Tesla is doing to electric car market, or what ford did to create American car industry or Reliance did in petroleum industry - Took the initiative away from the govt and made great wealth, employment and lots of tax dollars...

No. Imran Khan must do it all for us and if you disagree you are a youthia - or so i'm told.

 

[Jackdaws]

Something which is very hard for our country folks to understand.

But our country is burning coal to generate electricity. So it's not exactly a green push.

 

[Chhatrapati]

You can lease cars from some another country. (Technically buy it from a native) Then drive it for 5 years, upgrade the lease again.

 

[LeGenD]

A lot of forum members missed the entire point of the thread, there was a time when people could afford to buy cars but the massive devaluation, and other factors, have hiked the prices of cars to a stage where someone who could potentially have been able to afford an Altis would have to settle for Gli rather than something better, similarly someone who could afford to buy a Gli last year can only afford to buy an Xli and someone who could afford an Xli last year can only buy a Cultus.

Point being, Naya Pakistan is very very expensive and it has taken away dreams of the common man, from their dream car to their dream bike and so on and so forth. The devaluation alone is criminal, but killing commerce and trade is just treason. People who voted for PTI were expecting PTI to give them a better life and rightly so since we have been told that over USSD 10 Billion goes into corruption each year so potentially PTI was saving over USD 10 Billion. Furthermore, by better managing the economy they promised to not make life harder by not raising the cost of petrol, electricity, gas and committed to not go to IMF or devalue the currency. They not only broke all the commitments, they further made a mess of things which will take many many years to fix.

And all those who are living in Pakistan are suffering the negative consequences of voting PTI into power, those who are outside of Pakistan are impervious to the effects, impervious to the lies and so are cheering loudly and boldly that Pakistan is getting better; it is because they are out of the country and are not witness to the absolute massacre that PTI has done of the economy and commerce, these people still believe the lies of the biggest liar I have ever come across in my life, Imran Khan..............and yes, all those U-Turns are actually lies!

What affordability?

Spending habits of public is in question.

1. Many obtain expensive cars via car financing schemes of banks; many defaulters out there as well.

2. Many buy 'used' as well, much cheaper than brand new at times.

3. Single household keeping "several cars and motorbikes."

Just look at the level of traffic in cities of Pakistan; roads are literally flooded with cars and motorbikes, and accidents are a norm now. Due to this factor, GOP is under pressure to develop bigger and better roads in every city including flyovers and underpasses (huge sums of money committed to road infrastructure).

No matter how big and better roads are at a particular point in time, if number of vehicles continue to expand, road infrastructure will continue to loose its effectiveness over time. And people will continue to cry for more. How is this dynamic sustainable?

Naya Pakistan is very expensive because traditional Pakistani corruption-driven economic model is no longer sustainable due to following factors:

1. Continuous borrowing from foreign countries/institutions (bailout packages becoming a routine)
2. Gulf between imports and exports widening (local industries not up to the task)
3. Corruption in all walks of life (massive circulation of black money; money laundering)
4. Large number of entrepreneurs/people not paying taxes (much of tax burden on salaried class)
5. Property Mafia looting public with open hands by setting artificial rates of property
6. Governments wasting funds on extremely expensive cosmetic projects such as Orange Train instead of funding projects from which masses could benefit in true sense
7. Questionable trading practices which do not favor Pakistani industrial growth
8. Questionable dealings with China (single largest source of trade deficit)
9. Public officers filling their coffers for providing services to people they are supposed to otherwise

Entire shit needs reboot.

 

[American Pakistani]

less cars == less mobility == less economic activity

Yes people driving less car means less economic activity. Now go and worry about your bharat and provide them all subsidies.

$86k for a fortuner????
Dear God above
I could easily get used lamborghini/ferrari or a Audi R8 for that kinda money.

Not to mention hundreds of used $60k Porsches lying around.

THIS IS PURELY A SCAM

It is approx 48k $ when converted to USD. How did you ended up with 86k $?.

https://www.pakwheels.com/new-cars/toyota/fortuner/

 

[Mav3rick]

Government has taxed cars to discourage car sales and it's best step taken by present government Pakistan can't afford such luxuries

The auto sector has always been heavily taxed, but the recent surge in prices is not because of taxes but because of devaluation. This move will also hit the auto sector hard along with millions of workers who are associated with the auto industry; be it salesmen, servicemen, repairmen, re-sellers, support staff, mechanics, electricians and so on.

 

[Crusher]

The auto sector has always been heavily taxed, but the recent surge in prices is not because of taxes but because of devaluation. This move will also hit the auto sector hard along with millions of workers who are associated with the auto industry; be it salesmen, servicemen, repairmen, re-sellers, support staff, mechanics, electricians and so on.

They must reinvent themselves, in Capitalist system it is pretty normal that companies and sometimes whole business sectors go out of business and shut down. Coal mining and processing sector in western countries is undergoing this capitalist assault in recent years because the western governments and citizens want to minimize coal consumption for energy/electricity production purposes, the coal workers are very angry and losing their jobs but that is part of capitalism.

 

[Mav3rick]

You look at it this way, I look at it the other way. My way of looking at it is that car purchase should be dropped even further because it is draining our import bill in form of oil imports. Plus oil prices in Pakistan are very cheap and the state has to compensate for the difference by filling the shortfall by borrowing loans. If Pakistan was importing less, we won't be needing loans or spending tons to import and instead the money would be utilized else where.

Either increase the exports and bring it above the imports or reduce the imports and bring it to the level of exports. Why is it too hard for Pakistanis to understand this? The country of Bangladesh which we called bhuka nanga has more exports and less imports, despite them being a tiny land and less population. Our population is 220million, what are all these people doing? Just importing borrowing begging. Is that going to stay forever or will it change?

You are thinking of cars and bikes as a luxury but in the absence of a decent transport system, in the absence of an alternate, the thought is just cruel. Our import bill for vehicles is just about USD 2.5 Billion and it drives economy and commerce. To reduce this even further, the Government should encourage establishment of local industry which will take time.

And dude, what are you talking about in regards to the prices of oil, the state is already make heaps of revenue by taking Petroleum products, it is NOT subsidized, where did you get the idea that the state has to compensate???? Furthermore, how much of the imported petroleum is used by transport and how much of it is used to generate electricity, do you have any idea about that?

Ever since Musharraf's era, we have been starved for cheap and stable electricity. This had a detrimental effect on industry which was already established and also on industry which would have been established. PPP did not pay any heed to this and it all fell to the PML which invested in over 31 power projects due to which we are producing surplus electricity from this year and will produce even more as more power stations start coming online including the 2 * 1000 MW Nuclear Power Plants off Karachi. This will help with the establishment of industry; well it could have but the devaluation has fu**** it all up!!!

And then we have billions in defence related imports, do you propose we give up on that too?

Your right there are different perspectives. Ultimately in 4 years time you'll likely to be able to choose between Bilawal, Maryam and Imran.

Unfortunately, as I have come to believe now, we do not really have any choice. PML was formed by??? JI was formed by??? MQM was formed by??? PPPP was formed by??? PML(Q) was formed by??? IJI was formed by??? PTI was formed by???

We keep fighting amongst ourselves when the reality is that very little is in our hands, really. The system is always imposed upon us.

 

[VCheng]

A lot of forum members missed the entire point of the thread, there was a time when people could afford to buy cars but the massive devaluation, and other factors, have hiked the prices of cars to a stage where someone who could potentially have been able to afford an Altis would have to settle for Gli rather than something better, similarly someone who could afford to buy a Gli last year can only afford to buy an Xli and someone who could afford an Xli last year can only buy a Cultus.

Point being, Naya Pakistan is very very expensive

You must also realize that opting for a smaller car, or even not at all, is part of the intended effect: to drive down overall consumption of imported inputs. True, that a side effect of this policy is that the nation as a whole becomes poorer with an overall lower standard of living, but what if that lower standard of living is all that the nation can afford given what it produces?

That is the real basic point here.

For the past few decades, the nation financed its living standards on borrowed money, and this cannot go on forever.

 

[Mav3rick]

What affordability?

Spending habits of public is in question.

1. Many obtain expensive cars via car financing schemes of banks; many defaulters out there as well.

We have some of the lowest lending habits in the Asian region, people were indeed financing their cars through during Musharraf's era but the past 10 years have seen some of the lowest financing in the auto sector.

2. Many buy 'used' as well, much cheaper than brand new at times.

3. Single household keeping "several cars and motorbikes."

Yes, and? The point being on second hand cars, you do realize that second hand cars get just as expensive relatively with the price jack of new cars? And a very small minority of the 250 million has multiple cars/bikes and even those who do, very rarely are those redundant.

Just look at the level of traffic in cities of Pakistan; roads are literally flooded with cars and motorbikes, and accidents are a norm now. Due to this factor, GOP is under pressure to develop bigger and better roads in every city including flyovers and underpasses (huge sums of money committed to road infrastructure).

No matter how big and better roads are at a particular point in time, if number of vehicles continue to expand, road infrastructure will continue to loose its effectiveness over time. And people will continue to cry for more. How is this dynamic sustainable?

Our population increase is crazy, we have one of the highest population growth rate in the world. That is the reason for increase of assets on the road. When GoP builds roads, fly-overs and under-passes etc., whenever GoP invests in infrastructure, it bodes well for the entire country as it creates commerce and jobs. Simple economics, really.

Naya Pakistan is very expensive because traditional Pakistani corruption-driven economic model is no longer sustainable due to following factors:

Actually naya Pakistan is very expensive because of idiots at the helm of the country, unless it is not too early to start calling them traitors and criminals for driving the economy into the ground. Imran Khan, the king of liars, has found it easy to have his lies called U-Turns; the man has Lied more then PML, PPP and MQM combined. He has no rival in lying and he has absolutely no shame in lying and lying again. As per PTI claims, money saved from the amount of corruption alone should have been enough to drive our economy high and here we are at USD @ 160, Gas, Electricity, Petrol and general cost of living all up by 30%. Basically we are forced to pay 30% more whereas our earnings has decreased (when considered in terms of relative value of rupee).

1. Continuous borrowing from foreign countries/institutions (bailout packages becoming a routine)
2. Gulf between imports and exports widening (local industries not up to the task)
3. Corruption in all walks of life (massive circulation of black money; money laundering)
4. Large number of entrepreneurs/people not paying taxes (much of tax burden on salaried class)
5. Property Mafia looting public with open hands by setting artificial rates of property
6. Governments wasting funds on extremely expensive cosmetic projects such as Orange Train instead of funding projects from which masses could benefit in true sense
7. Questionable trading practices which do not favor Pakistani industrial growth
8. Questionable dealings with China (single largest source of trade deficit)
9. Public officers filling their coffers for providing services to people they are supposed to otherwise

Entire shit needs reboot.

1. The only successful IMF program was under PML Government which successfully concluded in 2015 (I think) after which PML managed the affairs and finances brilliantly.
2. This should have been corrected step-wise by providing incentives to investors to invest locally. What PTI did instead was signal to the investors that Pakistan is a high risk country for investment and that PKR could not be trusted.
3. Which PTI was supposed to control and so save USD 10 Billion in corruption annually, I wonder where all the saved money has gone.
4. Which is again the case, the state has raised taxes on the salaried class and done precisely what previous government used to do i.e. raise taxes on the taxed instead of expanding tax net.
5. Everyone in Pakistan invests in property and so prices of property goes up. Besides, the population is expanding at a breakneck speed and the accommodation cannot keep pace with the population growth which also contributes to higher prices based on demand & supply.
6. That is your opinion. I have none on it because I have no experience of the project.
7. Such as?
8. Such as?
9. But PTI must have fixed this by now, no?

 

[American Pakistani]

You are thinking of cars and bikes as a luxury but in the absence of a decent transport system, in the absence of an alternate, the thought is just cruel. Our import bill for vehicles is just about USD 2.5 Billion and it drives economy and commerce. To reduce this even further, the Government should encourage establishment of local industry which will take time.

And dude, what are you talking about in regards to the prices of oil, the state is already make heaps of revenue by taking Petroleum products, it is NOT subsidized, where did you get the idea that the state has to compensate???? Furthermore, how much of the imported petroleum is used by transport and how much of it is used to generate electricity, do you have any idea about that?

Ever since Musharraf's era, we have been starved for cheap and stable electricity. This had a detrimental effect on industry which was already established and also on industry which would have been established. PPP did not pay any heed to this and it all fell to the PML which invested in over 31 power projects due to which we are producing surplus electricity from this year and will produce even more as more power stations start coming online including the 2 * 1000 MW Nuclear Power Plants off Karachi. This will help with the establishment of industry; well it could have but the devaluation has fu**** it all up!!!

And then we have billions in defence related imports, do you propose we give up on that too?



Unfortunately, as I have come to believe now, we do not really have any choice. PML was formed by??? JI was formed by??? MQM was formed by??? PPPP was formed by??? PML(Q) was formed by??? IJI was formed by??? PTI was formed by???

We keep fighting amongst ourselves when the reality is that very little is in our hands, really. The system is always imposed upon us.

1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
2. Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)
3. Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)
4. Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)
5. Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)
6. Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%)
7. Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%)
8. Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%)
9. Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)
10. Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)

In 2018, Pakistani importers spent the most on the following 10 subcategories of mineral fuels-related products.

1. Processed petroleum oils: US$6.8 billion (down -7.9% from 2017)
2. Crude oil: $4.9 billion (up 56.3%)
3. Petroleum gases: $3.5 billion (up 80.6%)
4. Coal, solid fuels made from coal: $1.6 billion (up 52.5%)
5. Petroleum oil residues: $128.5 million (up 160.4%)
6. Coke, semi-coke: $46.3 million (up 41.9%)
7. Coal tar oils (high temperature distillation): $45.4 million (up 32.4%)
8. Electrical energy: $40.3 million (up 21.7%)
9. Petroleum jelly, mineral waxes: $10.7 million (up 8%)
10. Peat: $486,000 (up 185.9%)

Below are the 15 countries that imported the highest dollar value worth of tea during 2018.

1. Pakistan: US$571.3 million (8.9% of total tea imports)
2. Russia: $497 million (7.7%)
3. United States: $488 million (7.6%)
4. United Kingdom: $396 million (6.1%)
5. Egypt: $318 million (4.9%)
6. Germany: $230 million (3.6%)
7. Morocco: $221 million (3.4%)
8. Japan: $182 million (2.8%)
9. Vietnam: $181 million (2.8%)
10. France: $181 million (2.8%)
11. China: $178 million (2.8%)
12. Netherlands: $155 million (2.4%)
13. Hong Kong: $152 million (2.4%)
14. Canada: $146 million (2.3%)
15. Iran: $121 million (1.9%)

All credits to owner.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-imports/

 

[Mav3rick]

You must also realize that opting for a smaller car, or even not at all, is part of the intended effect: to drive down overall consumption of imported inputs. True, that a side effect of this policy is that the nation as a whole becomes poorer with an overall lower standard of living, but what if that lower standard of living is all that the nation can afford given what it produces?

That is the real basic point here.

For the past few decades, the nation financed its living standards on borrowed money, and this cannot go on forever.

But was it not the entire slogan of PTI that we are losing all the money to corruption? Our yearly budget deficit is somewhere around 5%-6% of the entire budget right? That is less than the amount we were losing to corruption, as per PTI, and should have been sufficient to fill the budget deficit............so what happened, really?