Use of NASR and retaliation by India (if Any)

[Zain Malik]

We will Use Prahaar and shaurya
Prahaar is Being Built strategically into Arty divisions in Cold start

That thing look like a rusty old fuel tanker standing vertically...!!!

 

[Tipu7]

@OrionHunter There is this guy here @Tipu7 he was going into ERWs on a thread long back. Guy's theory is good, I admit. But his application ... died of laughter when he said he will use it against an armoured div!!!! I mean, there are stupids across the border on both sides as you can see here, but a guy who knows something posting stupidity --- is irritating. Request deal with him. He is on ignore list so his posts will not be cropping up.

In my more than a decade of butting around in this field .... could not come across anyone as hilarious as this gentleman

He laughs at calculations - has no clue of armour .. really don't know what he calculates to laugh at!

What is your experience in Material sciences? Nuclear Materials? Heck ever seen a gram of Uranium in real life? Forget HE.
I do not have any personal theory, I mention what I know and have NO intension to convince you people how wrong you are when you discuss Nasr missile system by taking guide line from tactical artillery systems developed in early cold war era.

As per ignore list, do what you wish. You lose your nerves every time you face me. Just because I break your theory of ''We will detect NASR from satellite by picking up their radiation signature then we will use anti radiation weapon to knock out battery. Our Tanks are NBC protected and not even NASR can kill the crew and more bla bla stuff''

1. When was Nasr inducted into service ?? Any link ?

NASR is in active serivce, less than dozen batteries though. More batteries will be deployed with time as production & up gradation of system in under way after the change of Doctrine from Limited deterrence to full spectrum. There is no link available as its classified information.

2. Does PA is prepared and done any field exercise to fight under NCW environment, after all PA is gonna use it on its soil during Indian armored thrust.

That depends on type of terrain missile will be used. And considering the ''doctrine of usage'' it is highly unlikely that PA will operate in that area which will be bombarded by NASR system.

3. Declaring NASR as Battlefield Nuclear Weapon delivery weapon, means it won't be used as Conventional Weapon. True or False.

No. Despite popular belief of being battle field weapon it will NOT be in command of respective battle field commander. We have made enough measure to ensure that weapon will not be ''misplaced or misused'' during battle...

4. What do you think, what would be the Indian response to a nuclear attack on its armed force. I mean the Civilian govt. response or action, under the pressure of the citizens of India, and the Indian armed forces will put to punish the Pakistan, who will loose some of their combatants in the attack.

I believe the condition in which NASR will be used will be already worse enough to trigger nuclear war between both nations. Usage of NASR can act as trigger point though which make this weapon very risky to use.

5. It needs to be understood that for getting a suitable nuclear war head for such short range tactical missiles requires very high level of technology do you think it exist in Pakistan ?

Yup. We are even using Tunable lasers for centrifugal separation. There are more but I cannot mention its name for obvious reasons.

6. Claiming that NASR was developed in response to Indian Cold Start Doctrine, but don't you think this is however is a stupid argument because India has already made it clear to Pakistan and the world that any use of nuclear weapon by Pakistan tactical or otherwise will bring in massive nuclear retaliation from India come what may.
So, what difference does NASR have made, when it already possess the Nuclear Capable BM, so whether NASR, Gauri, or Shaheen, would be taken as the Nuclear attack, and would give India, the free hand to strike the Pakistan with the Nuclear Strike.

There was times when India used to deny existence of cold start. Now they admit. Why?
NASR is not primarily cold start based weapon. Considering its effectiveness it can be used for various purposes depending upon situation of war. Though it was developed while keeping cold start in mind, so when ever question will be asked for justifying NASR existence, answer will be always cold start.

7. How will PA will protect itself from the Indian Tactical weapon named Prahar.

Prahar is tactical nuclear ballistic weapon. Its different from NASR. It is not yet tested nor in services. Just like other ballistic missiles it can be shot down in terminal phase. But I doubt Pakistan will take Prahar as threat as we are already working on projects similar to this system. You can say, we will answer Prahar with Prahar.............

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ok. sure. read again that's what I said .......... not so easy to use.

Last I remember you were talking of ERWs, something that US itself discontinued, as if talking of throwing balls to play catch.

And what effing calculations? Hallucinations right?

Am talking armored frontage .. somehow you have no clue of it so don't even butt in

Was quoting the specific member to his post....

BTW ... put you on ignore list. Somehow you cropped up.

@OrionHunter There is this guy here @Tipu7 he was going into ERWs on a thread long back. Guy's theory is good, I admit. But his application ... died of laughter when he said he will use it against an armoured div!!!! I mean, there are stupids across the border on both sides as you can see here, but a guy who knows something posting stupidity --- is irritating. Request deal with him. He is on ignore list so his posts will not be cropping up.

In my more than a decade of butting around in this field .... could not come across anyone as hilarious as this gentleman

He laughs at calculations - has no clue of armour .. really don't know what he calculates to laugh at!



Don't make such absurd statements

One of the latest generation of fanboys.

The most irritating part of PDF is surviving each hatching, roughly about three to four months apart. And then the wave of the inevitable:

1. The Indus Valley Civilisation: this was Pakistani, as the people living around the sites are Pakistani; OR, this was not Indian, as the people living around the sites are not presently Indian; OR, this was the origin of Hindusim; OR this was nothing to do with Hinduism, so, bloody Yendus, eff off; OR, there was nothing between this and bin Qasim.
2. 1,000 years of Muslim domination (forget Pakistan for the moment), usually counted from bin Qasim;
3. The impact on Indian culture and the Indian economy of these 1,000 hypothetical years;
4. The importance of the Muslims in the Indian Mutiny; OR, the relative innocence of the Indian Muslims in the Indian Mutiny;
5. The narrative about Kashmir, Parts 1 to N: Kashmir was conquered outright by the Indian Army, and won back step by valiant step by the people of Pakistan in arms; OR, the Indian Army was in Kashmir long before the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession; OR, the Pakistan Army fought for and won Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan, and would have won the rest if the UN had not intervened; OR, the UN intervened and imposed a plebiscite on India and India weakly gave in, but played dirty by not removing her troops as required; OR, there was never any mention of the Pakistan Army in the UN Resolution 47, so who says they have to be withdrawn?; .....and it goes on, and on, and on;
6. The narrative about 1965, and how Pakistan actually won that;
7. The narrative about 1971, and how India never had anything to do with winning that; including the corollary to the theorem, the complete, snow-white innocence of Pakistani intelligence before being flagrantly outraged by R&W in 1971, conveniently ignoring the copious international literature on Pakistan's role in the Mizo uprising;
8. The narrative about 1999, about which the less said the better;
9. The narrative that goes on, which basically completely denies any wrong-doing by their intelligence, and forcefully, indignantly insists that India is the equivalent of a war-criminal.

These are the Nightmare 9. Readers are welcome to add more. I am excluding Windy from this; he is in a class by himself (I suspect Class VIII, judging by the quality of his posts).

Why are baniyas ranting so much, dont attack Pakistan if you dont want your soldiers to be cooked at 4000 celcius, it simple enough
NASR is response to indian agression/Coward start and their mentality and Plz dont talk of nuking whole Pakistan, we can do that too we have more than a 100 and we will be firing all of them.

Do NOT use a generic ethnic insult. All Indians are not baniyas; some Indians are.

 

[GR!FF!N]

I knew you wont remain objective Getout from this objective, if you want to post such kind of rubbish.

The word "Rubbish" carries different meaning for both Indians and Pakistanis I guess.

People like you are the reason Kaitju was forced to declare his famous statement which impolied. 90 percent of India doesnot want to think from their grey cells at all.

Pakistan NASR was made because On Rajhastan/Thar desert region Pakistan has utterly lost its conventional might. There is not enough soldiers/tech to stump the Indian conventional superiority or very sudden attack. And If you are such a smart guy, you can easily know what is your 1st corps in Rajhastan area doing from last 4-5years.

No we are not stuck in 70's mentality. We dont have enough gear to counter 2 large corps of Indian army in a timely fashion with whatever conventional might you have.

Think about it for a second and when it gets through your thick head, then comes an questions my TT''ship.

Who says Conventional strike cant be prevented with a tactical nuke strike. Ground will poisoned with nuclear fallout. India can not move through that land.

See,I told you.You guys don't even try to admit that "Tactical Nuke" was a bad decision.A single nuke probably can't even damage 1 dozen tanks or 100+ soldiers,as they never are used for mass attack.Yes,a nuke will kill few dozens of soldiers along with few hundreds who will expose to it right then and there,but what about the consequences??

1.Entire world will get their alarm ringing.All the heavyweight players will jump into the situation.They'll pressurize to stop the War right then and there.

2.Entire world will blame Pakistan for using first nuke since 1945,followed by heavy economic sanction as well as military techs as well.I doubt even that moment,China will be on your side.No neighbour wants a fanatical neighbour who is crazy enough to use a nuke.

3.USA might try to push Pakistan to get their already prized nuke assets and to stop all the nuke related activities,which you know,they've every intention to do already.

4.Worse,even if India don't nuke Pakistan for using Tactical nuke,they'll ensure they pay enough to remain harmless for next century.Worst...Other powers tagging in to ensure the same as well.

these are not any fantasy stories.One,with a brain can derive these within a minutes.follow what happened with NK,Iran when they tried to get nuke(thanks to AQ).NK,a nuclear power,dying hungry.Iran chose wisely and remain a non nuclear power.Both are/were under harsh economic sanction.Iran survived due to its oil and sheer determination.I wonder what Pakistan have to get through a sanction multi times worse,something like economic conditions under which Germany were after(hyperinflation).

but hey,for dumb,using nuke is just a word,without any fallout at all.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

The word "Rubbish" carries different meaning for both Indians and Pakistanis I guess.



See,I told you.You guys don't even try to admit that "Tactical Nuke" was a bad decision.A single nuke probably can't even damage 1 dozen tanks or 100+ soldiers,as they never are used for mass attack.Yes,a nuke will kill few dozens of soldiers along with few hundreds who will expose to it right then and there,but what about the consequences??

1.Entire world will get their alarm ringing.All the heavyweight players will jump into the situation.They'll pressurize to stop the War right then and there.

2.Entire world will blame Pakistan for using first nuke since 1945,followed by heavy economic sanction as well as military techs as well.I doubt even that moment,China will be on your side.No neighbour wants a fanatical neighbour who is crazy enough to use a nuke.

3.USA might try to push Pakistan to get their already prized nuke assets and to stop all the nuke related activities,which you know,they've every intention to do already.

4.Worse,even if India don't nuke Pakistan for using Tactical nuke,they'll ensure they pay enough to remain harmless for next century.Worst...Other powers tagging in to ensure the same as well.

these are not any fantasy stories.One,with a brain can derive these within a minutes.follow what happened with NK,Iran when they tried to get nuke(thanks to AQ).NK,a nuclear power,dying hungry.Iran chose wisely and remain a non nuclear power.Both are/were under harsh economic sanction.Iran survived due to its oil and sheer determination.I wonder what Pakistan have to get through a sanction multi times worse,something like economic conditions under which Germany were after(hyperinflation).

but hey,for dumb,using nuke is just a word,without any fallout at all.

We have already told the world that we WILL use NASR if there ever is an Indian invasion and this weapon will be used against a military force not against civilians and there won't be no sanctions as NASR will be used against an invading force inside our territory, we will have the moral high ground.

If you on the other hand respond with a complete nuclear arsenal that will target civilians, we will do the same and more than a 100 nuclear bombs will be exploding in Indian territories but we won't be the first to target civilians, it would be you guys, the burden of escalation will be on you not on us.

 

[GR!FF!N]

We have already told the world that we WILL use NASR if there ever is an Indian invasion and this weapon will be used against a military force not against civilians and there won't be no sanctions as NASR will be used against an invading force inside our territory, we will have the moral high ground.

Yup..same level of moral high ground when Germany used mastard gas on commonwealth soldiers. or just like you guys had during Kargil,or every single war you had with India.

I don't know,did Pakistan's doctrine got change??First it was against "Invading force which already overran major parts of country".How come it suddenly became "invading force" and "Major parts" are desert of Thar??

If you on the other hand respond with a complete nuclear arsenal that will target civilians, we will do the same and more than a 100 nuclear bombs will be exploding in Indian territories but we won't be the first to target civilians, it would be you guys, the burden of escalation will be on you not on us.

Tell me one thing.Pakistan will use Nasr when Indian forces will be deep inside Pakistan,right??So,instead of Indians,you'll kill your civilians as well,right?I'll let go the part that it'll cause deformity and cancer and other diseases for next few thousand years in Pakistan along with in India.Doesn't that mean Pakistan,as a state will lose its moral ground in the first place who are using nukes to kill its own citizen??

No power openly claims these things.USA and USSR developed nuke to bomb each other.They never claimed they'll bomb their own land if needed.

 

[Gentelman]

Pakistanis always bring in NASR as a game changer- a deterrance for India. I want to hear their views on the possible uses of the same

Here the deterrance word simply means that the cold start is failed start as now the enemy won't try to charge with all of its force in mainland....
And no i don't think that the full nuclear war is an option if Pakistan neutralizes advancing tank columns inside its territory.
No first use simply means that you won't go nuclear on their land till they don't go nuclear on your land..

 

[PakSword]

This will be the scenario in a couple of years time.

India may not be able to move its entire Army to its western border in case of a conflict. At least quarter of the Indian army will be guarding Chinese border. China will not waste any opportunity to capture disputed territory if Indian defenses are weak on that border.

One quarter will be engaged in IOK in a couple of years time. The rest half will be available on the western border. Pakistan will have its 25% on western border to save herself from backstabbing Afghans. However, as Taliban are getting more and more powerful day by day, and US is planning to move out due to continued stress on her economy and other factors, this 25% will not be needed on the western border in the coming couple of years.

In the coming years, to save CPEC, Pakistan and China will have a decent naval presence in Arabian sea. Pakistan is training additional force to secure CPEC's entire route. So the little advantage that India has right now, until Afghan Taliban are weak and US is present in Afghanistan, India has a chance to penetrate Pakistani borders. But that too, with a lot of effort of weeks if not months. Two nuclear states cannot go to war without anyone else noticing. Same happened in 1999 when India tried its conventional might to push a handful of fighters back. It took several weeks of Indian Army and Air force engagement and a lot of diplomatic pressure from US to bring back the fighters back to Pakistan.

India knows that any advantage that she has will not be there in coming years once US is back (resulting in strong Afghan Taliban), CPEC is operational and Pakistan's continued moral and 'other' support to Kashmiris and others in India.

Nasr is the first option for Pakistan now, however, it will be the last option in future, and that too I highly doubt will ever happen due to the factors I have mentioned.

Internet warriors from India need to check with their defense strategists why India is concerned on (i) CPEC, (ii) Chinese presence in Arabian sea. (iii) US departure from Afghanistan, (iv) absence of any Indian influence in talks with Afghan Taliban and (v) rising independence movements not in just IOK, but also in other areas.

I am sure India doesn't have any guts to attack Pakistan now as it fears from the consequences hitting her economic interests. In a couple of years (or maybe three), India should forget attacking Pakistan.

If there is any Indian army's propaganda wing presence on PDF, they know for a fact what I am writing here. They know it's time to attack now or they will have to wait forever. There is no issue of Nasr or whatever I am telling you.

 

[Gentelman]

Yup..same level of moral high ground when Germany used mastard gas on commonwealth soldiers. or just like you guys had during Kargil,or every single war you had with India.

I don't know,did Pakistan's doctrine got change??First it was against "Invading force which already overran major parts of country".How come it suddenly became "invading force" and "Major parts" are desert of Thar??



Tell me one thing.Pakistan will use Nasr when Indian forces will be deep inside Pakistan,right??So,instead of Indians,you'll kill your civilians as well,right?I'll let go the part that it'll cause deformity and cancer and other diseases for next few thousand years in Pakistan along with in India.Doesn't that mean Pakistan,as a state will lose its moral ground in the first place who are using nukes to kill its own citizen??

No power openly claims these things.USA and USSR developed nuke to bomb each other.They never claimed they'll bomb their own land if needed.

Deserts of thar are the place where the future of Nasr will be decided not the cities....
To reach cities, Enemy need's to pass through Punjab plains(muddy, streams, cannals and properly defendable) and desert (straight road if not defended at time....
And let's talk about morality when and if the war broke out. There is no use of using such terms about a doctrine as you never know it'll happen or not, then why to tire yourself by scaring the sh** outta you and just personally attacking other's morality and manners to lower your frustration....
Aao na lahore gym khana party mnn!!

 

[Hellfire]

One of the latest generation of fanboys.

The most irritating part of PDF is surviving each hatching, roughly about three to four months apart. And then the wave of the inevitable:

1. The Indus Valley Civilisation: this was Pakistani, as the people living around the sites are Pakistani; OR, this was not Indian, as the people living around the sites are not presently Indian; OR, this was the origin of Hindusim; OR this was nothing to do with Hinduism, so, bloody Yendus, eff off; OR, there was nothing between this and bin Qasim.
2. 1,000 years of Muslim domination (forget Pakistan for the moment), usually counted from bin Qasim;
3. The impact on Indian culture and the Indian economy of these 1,000 hypothetical years;
4. The importance of the Muslims in the Indian Mutiny; OR, the relative innocence of the Indian Muslims in the Indian Mutiny;
5. The narrative about Kashmir, Parts 1 to N: Kashmir was conquered outright by the Indian Army, and won back step by valiant step by the people of Pakistan in arms; OR, the Indian Army was in Kashmir long before the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession; OR, the Pakistan Army fought for and won Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan, and would have won the rest if the UN had not intervened; OR, the UN intervened and imposed a plebiscite on India and India weakly gave in, but played dirty by not removing her troops as required; OR, there was never any mention of the Pakistan Army in the UN Resolution 47, so who says they have to be withdrawn?; .....and it goes on, and on, and on;
6. The narrative about 1965, and how Pakistan actually won that;
7. The narrative about 1971, and how India never had anything to do with winning that; including the corollary to the theorem, the complete, snow-white innocence of Pakistani intelligence before being flagrantly outraged by R&W in 1971, conveniently ignoring the copious international literature on Pakistan's role in the Mizo uprising;
8. The narrative about 1999, about which the less said the better;
9. The narrative that goes on, which basically completely denies any wrong-doing by their intelligence, and forcefully, indignantly insists that India is the equivalent of a war-criminal.

These are the Nightmare 9. Readers are welcome to add more. I am excluding Windy from this; he is in a class by himself (I suspect Class VIII, judging by the quality of his posts).

Totally sir. The issue is that windy was other day trying to act an aviator and discuss combat flying!!! Had I not been engaged with other things, would have loved to hear him on that aspect. This gentleman is someone who has knowledge of the physics involved, but is irrational in application and totally off on military aspects. The problem that crops up in discussing anything with him is the above traits you have elucidated.

Even today I tried to keep minimum on this topic as was transiting through Banjara Hills in peak hours ... this topic is something that is poorly understood by most military men and women, and it becomes virtually impossible with a horde of ignorants.

I can bet people would be hard pressed if asked why Nagasaki and Hiroshima were chosen as targets and not Tokyo!

I get your attitude. Not here to teach anyone - willing to help those who seek knowledge.

Thanks for that, as always.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Totally sir. The issue is that windy was other day trying to act an aviator and discuss combat flying!!! Had I not been engaged with other things, would have loved to hear him on that aspect. This gentleman is someone who has knowledge of the physics involved, but is irrational in application and totally off on military aspects. The problem that crops up in discussing anything with him is the above traits you have elucidated.

Even today I tried to keep minimum on this topic as was transiting through Banjara Hills in peak hours ... this topic is something that is poorly understood by most military men and women, and it becomes virtually impossible with a horde of ignorants.

I can bet people would be hard pressed if asked why Nagasaki and Hiroshima were chosen as targets and not Tokyo!

I get your attitude. Not here to teach anyone - willing to help those who seek knowledge.

Thanks for that, as always.

Now you've got me really rattled.

 

[Hellfire]

Now you've got me really rattled.

Why? Told you am in your vicinity sir. Your prowling area sir?

 

[GR!FF!N]

Deserts of thar are the place where the future of Nasr will be decided not the cities....
To reach cities, Enemy need's to pass through Punjab plains(muddy, streams, cannals and properly defendable) and desert (straight road if not defended at time....
And let's talk about morality when and if the war broke out. There is no use of using such terms about a doctrine as you never know it'll happen or not, then why to tire yourself by scaring the sh** outta you and just personally attacking other's morality and manners to lower your frustration....
Aao na lahore gym khana party mnn!!

So,as you claimed earlier,no such "Morality" is there..

Now tell me,what about Punjab??Is Pakistan ready to nuke Panjab plains??I mean,Punjab itself will form a country in such situation,right?? As other claims,Punjab lawmakers are simply way too powerful.

And please,plains are never defensible,unless they're like Netherlands,where blowing a single bridge can effectively stop invasion for few weeks.I doubt that is possible in case of Pakistan.

And in today's age,technology is way way progressive.

India literally had a hard time in the past to defend Punjab in case of war.same goes for Pakistan as well.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why? Told you am in your vicinity sir.

Oh, I know that. You're nobody I know, but you know my WhatsApp profile pic.

<GULP>

 

[Hellfire]

Oh, I know that. You're nobody I know, but you know my WhatsApp profile pic.

<GULP>

Nope sir you don't know me, am sure of that too. You can be sure of that definitely. Your DP? Will say hello to you if you are roaming around and we happen to cross paths.

That being said, will contact you when am done with things am stuck in right now. Am in town for some more time. Obviously I have issues of identity crisis ... lol