Use of NASR and retaliation by India (if Any)

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

When both India and Pakistan talk about Nuclear exchange, warheads, Nasr, Prahaar, and so many varied topics .. suddenly I feel folks of both sides have either done

1. Pop the magic blue pill which gives a massive boost to the mojo
2. Tried herbal shilajit to get the same vigour and ever lasting abilities
3. Or tried grandma secret recipes to get blood flow and feel a hot iron feeling.

It's s if the newly acquired assets are ripping out of your pants and all wish to showcase if the ruler can measure it or the asset can measure the ruler!

Nasr, cold start all are old strategies...

Cold start got replaced about 8 and 1/2 years back. So is the Nasr based strategy of firing to advancing column in their own soil for defending.

Get a life .. strategy in public domain are the ones which are "legacy" strategies.. similar the retaliation option in open is also not a first reply option. It's media who fools blind folks of both sides who keeps on harping on cold start and Nasr. Thereby increasing newsprint sales..

Both India and Pakistan has moved much ahead with their strategies and counter strategies...

I have always thought why any professional force in Its right mind would do something as cold start- Even after watching the Gulf Wars especially the second one- Now that here we are discussing India as an aggressor I don't see It stepping an inch in Pakistan until It is assured of complete Victory means total obliteration of the enemy- without much resistance from the civilian population- Which is highly unlikely as of now and seems the same for foreseeable future- The only theater I see some possibility is Baluchistan- Which will require a marine type landing operation a capability which we don't have and takes time to built even If we want to have- meanwhile the the Pakistan Army is using the sweet time to finish off whatever may be left of resistance there- recently I heard they are launching another large scale operation- So there goes what could have been an opportunity- So all this hue and cry about cold start must stop- I don't see Its existence after the Gulf War I which showed the world that wars can be won better by combat planes than tanks and mechanized units-

In any case the future war between India and Pakistan will be decided in Air and some territory captured here and there for which I hardly see any benefit of using Nasr or tactical nukes- Nasr was used as one of the PR to feed the gullible masses in order to boost morale when fundamentalists were taking territories nearly 50 miles from Islamabad and declaring Islamic state in Pakistan- Soldiers and cops refusing to do their Jobs some elite of the elite SF even going a step further to blow up his unit in the mess- Parents of dead soldiers refusing to accept bodies after fatwas were issued by clerics for those fighting the Islamic state were being Kuffar- Local graveyards not giving them space etc- Things have cooled down ever since and so has the Nasr tests among other things- These days there is newfound PR and that is Kashmir lets see how long that lasts-

PS: For those Pakistanis who don't know read the book by Saleem Shahzad- And for those who know It you can keep acting as If didn't occur If you want to-

Regards-

 

[T90TankGuy]

Be happy to, work schedules permitting.

I'm going to work for a ball-breaker who expects me in Pune 9 days a week, in Goa 4 to 5 days a week, and several other locations for the 6 days a week left over.

 

[PakSword]

Yes, but we don't make public threats.

We have a NFU policy, but that doesn't mean we will wait to get attacked first. Keep your nukes and other WMDs hidden and we don't have to go nuclear either.

We will keep our nukes hidden until you respect our borders. Simple, isn't it?

 

[CorporateAffairs]

India is a responsible power and would never want to use Nukes.
Not sure about Pak.

 

[randomradio]

We will keep our nukes hidden until you respect our borders. Simple, isn't it?

Of course. But it is you who is within our borders.

The fact is if you bring your nukes out of hiding, we nuke you. So India crossing the border is irrelevant. If we see your battlefield commanders moving Nasr regiments around, coming closer to Indian formations, we nuke you.

Hell we could nuke you for none of the reasons I stated.

Nuclear thresholds are very low. It is up to Pak to decide if it wants a nuclear war or not.

 

[PakSword]

India is a responsible power and would never want to use Nukes.
Not sure about Pak.

Pakistan armed forces are responsible to keep infiltrators out of the borders. They are free to use any weapon to fulfill this responsibility.

Of course. But it is you who is within our borders.

The fact is if you bring your nukes out of hiding, we nuke you. So India crossing the border is irrelevant. If we see your battlefield commanders moving Nasr regiments around, coming closer to Indian formations, we nuke you.

Hell we could nuke you for none of the reasons I stated.

Nuclear thresholds are very low. It is up to Pak to decide if it wants a nuclear war or not.

Lolz. You at least have some thresholds, we don't.....

 

[Hellfire]

I have always thought why any professional force in Its right mind would do something as cold start

Discussed in cold start thread. Look it up. There is a logic to it.

Even after watching the Gulf Wars especially the second one- Now that here we are discussing India as an aggressor I don't see It stepping an inch in Pakistan until It is assured of complete Victory means total obliteration of the enemy- without much resistance from the civilian population- Which is highly unlikely as of now and seems the same for foreseeable future-

Incorrect assessment.

The only theater I see some possibility is Baluchistan- Which will require a marine type landing operation a capability which we don't have and takes time to built even If we want to have- meanwhile the the Pakistan Army is using the sweet time to finish off whatever may be left of resistance there- recently I heard they are launching another large scale operation- So there goes what could have been an opportunity-

Underlined portion? Incorrect. RAMFOR? Heard of it? Wont say beyond ..

all this hue and cry about cold start must stop- I don't see Its existence after the Gulf War I which showed the world that wars can be won better by combat planes than tanks and mechanized units

You are joking right?

 

[zebra7]

We will keep our nukes hidden until you respect our borders. Simple, isn't it?

LOLZ, Who knows, a multination operation to confiscate/capture the whole Nuclear weapon of volatile Pakistan plan is going as we speak, and U.S drones are marking your whole hidden nuclear hideout.

 

[PakSword]

"

LOLZ, Who knows, a multination operation to confiscate/capture the whole Nuclear weapon of volatile Pakistan plan is going as we speak, and U.S drones are marking your whole hidden nuclear hideout.

Not volatile anymore.

By the way, India is counting on multinational operation and support to bring down weakest army on the planet? Last time I checked, Indians were chanting that they would nuke us if they see us even thinking about using Nasr?? What's the reason of a sudden change in Indian stance from nuking us, to bringing entire globe into this conflict?

 

[zebra7]

"


Not volatile anymore.

By the way, India is counting on multinational operation and support to bring down weakest army on the planet? Last time I checked, Indians were chanting that they would nuke us if they see us even thinking about using Nasr?? What's the reason of a sudden change in Indian stance from nuking us, to bringing entire globe into this conflict?

No, I didn't mentioned India. The Multination Operation would be lead by U.S. and NATO and India is only gonna provide the Logistic and little bit fuel. Lage raho Nuke Nuke Karne Me Mamoo !!

 

[PakSword]

I have always thought why any professional force in Its right mind would do something as cold start- Even after watching the Gulf Wars especially the second one- Now that here we are discussing India as an aggressor I don't see It stepping an inch in Pakistan until It is assured of complete Victory means total obliteration of the enemy- without much resistance from the civilian population- Which is highly unlikely as of now and seems the same for foreseeable future- The only theater I see some possibility is Baluchistan- Which will require a marine type landing operation a capability which we don't have and takes time to built even If we want to have- meanwhile the the Pakistan Army is using the sweet time to finish off whatever may be left of resistance there- recently I heard they are launching another large scale operation- So there goes what could have been an opportunity- So all this hue and cry about cold start must stop- I don't see Its existence after the Gulf War I which showed the world that wars can be won better by combat planes than tanks and mechanized units-

In any case the future war between India and Pakistan will be decided in Air and some territory captured here and there for which I hardly see any benefit of using Nasr or tactical nukes- Nasr was used as one of the PR to feed the gullible masses in order to boost morale when fundamentalists were taking territories nearly 50 miles from Islamabad and declaring Islamic state in Pakistan- Soldiers and cops refusing to do their Jobs some elite of the elite SF even going a step further to blow up his unit in the mess- Parents of dead soldiers refusing to accept bodies after fatwas were issued by clerics for those fighting the Islamic state were being Kuffar- Local graveyards not giving them space etc- Things have cooled down ever since and so has the Nasr tests among other things- These days there is newfound PR and that is Kashmir lets see how long that lasts-

PS: For those Pakistanis who don't know read the book by Saleem Shahzad- And for those who know It you can keep acting as If didn't occur If you want to-

Regards-

A sane response from an Indian after a very long time. While I disagree with some points mentioned in your post, my information from reliable sources is the same as yours on using Nasr or the position of both armies during any conflict.

When two professional armies fight, there is very minimal chance that a large territory will be captured by either one of them. India will not position all of its army on the western border and will have 1.25 to 1.5 times strength over Pakistan.

It will be very difficult for India (and almost impossible for Pakistan) to move forward in first few weeks if not months. In the first few weeks itself, both the armies will be pressurized by international powers to go back to the original positions and both are responsible enough to act accordingly.

The situation will remain like today for the next few decades. Both know that the only option for both of them to fight is on economic front where Pakistan is currently miserably failing. However, this is expected to reverse after CPEC. The other war that they are fighting is through proxies and they are fighting very well.

No, I didn't mentioned India. The Multination Operation would be lead by U.S. and NATO and India is only gonna provide the Logistic and little bit fuel. Lage raho Nuke Nuke Karne Me Mamoo !!

One of your countrymen appeared to be sane enough. Just read his comment above. I don't like to respond to the childish comments.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

The situation will remain like today for the next few decades. Both know that the only option for both of them to fight is on economic front where Pakistan is currently miserably failing. However, this is expected to reverse after CPEC. The other war that they are fighting is through proxies and they are fighting very well.

Wars are always fought like that- rest are battles- Beat the opponent economically, take control of economics in the region- So that the opponent cannot sustain the war- Saddam was removed by 2 wars and long economic sanctions and we are talking of the mighty US war machine here-

I don't agree with you- CPEC will only bring misery to your people- Monopoly in any market is not beneficial for the buyers, CPEC is actually monopoly of the Chinese in the Pakistani market- you will have to buy whatever they sell- at whichever price they chose to sell- and then there are many other things- Which will make Pakistan solely dependent on China- It would be better IMO start trade with Iran, and India along with China and allowing investments by Indian and Iranian companies which is unimaginable as of now- May be invite Russia(don't think they have enough money) or get the Gulf states like Saudi, UAE and Qatar to setup their own CPEC like corridors-

 

[dray]

I was having a discussion on the thread https://defence.pk/threads/solution-for-indian-occupied-kashmir-liberation.442740

The matters turned to Nuclear Option (as usual )The Pakistani members started talking about NASR and how it will be used against India. I countered by saying any use of NASR will lead to massive nuclear strike by India.

@hellfire countered that it may not always be the case.

This thread is to discuss possible uses of NASR and reactions (if Any) by India

Scenario 1 Attack on column of tanks breaching the pakistani mainland and moving towards one of the top cities



This scenario assumes that the attack will happen on Pakistani soil against a column of tanks. The casuality figures seem very less to me. Why use a nuke if you are going to just destroy 6-7 tanks. Forgive my ignorance about military tactics I dont think that if a column of tanks is attacking then only 6-7 tanks will be in area of 1 - 1.5 KM. My understanding is atleast 20-25 tanks will be in that zone and use of a nuke to destroy that many tanks and to halt the progress of the rest of column ( to save from nuclear fallout) is a good use of a tacticle nuke

India's Reaction - My understanding is that in case of such high casualities India will retaliate with full Nuclear Strike

Scenario 2 use of NASR on Airbases/ Indian army columns within Indian territory

This scenario seems a bit difficult given the short range of NASR. To do this the missile has to be brought directly to the border itself

India's Reaction A nuclear attack (tacticle or strategic) within India's border will definitely lead to a massive nuclear retaliation.

Scenario 3 A sea based version of NASR used to attack and destroy an Aircraft Carrier

I dont know if a sea based version of NASR exists. But if it does it will be a very effective "Carrier Killer" (if it manages to get in range without being detected and stopped) Given the short range of NASR this scenario seems very difficult. No Aircraft carrier will come within 60-70 KM of the coast and any ship carrying the missile will be intercepted and destroyed before it can do the damage. However if it succeeds then

India's Reaction A nuclear attack on an Aircraft Carrier will lead to a full scale Nuclear Reaction

I dont want this to be a troll thread. I want discussion on these of any other scenario(s) where NASR can be used. What reaction will India give for such a use

This is something I wanted to say in every 'nuke' thread, so saying it now...in very simple terms...

There is a good chance that a Pakistani officer might just set off a nuke in the hit of the battle...as in case of Pakistan, nukes are no more under the control of very high ranking people sitting in AC rooms and thinking it through.

Now, what would be the reaction of those high ranking Pakistani generals with bigger nukes when they get the news of a Nasr used in the battlefield? There can be possibilities of two kinds of people holding the keys to the bigger nukes, the sane, logical, intelligent, cool-headed, military planners bunch, and/or the insane, illogical, stupid, fanatic, 'gazis' kind of bunch.

On hearing about the use of Nasr; the sane, logical, intelligent, cool-headed, military planners bunch (if any) would think that "Oh $hit, now all bets are off, India might retaliate with nukes anytime, we must nuke them to hell before they nuke us".

The insane, illogical, stupid, fanatic, 'gazis' bunch (if any) on the other hand would think that "Hindus are too coward to retaliate, maybe they don't even have functional nukes, so just nuke them to hell and finish it once and for all".

Hence, in the event of a Nasr being fired, without any of "Thinking it through", India should consider that "Now all bets are off, we must nuke them to destroy Pakistan's ability to nuke us, at least to the extent possible to limit the damage to us, before their both sane and insane bunch reach to the same conclusion of nuking us".

This should be part of our military doctrine without any option for a second thought. In fact, once any nuke is fired from the opposite side, it should be an automatic process without any scope of intervention from the political leadership, because those in the political leadership may not find their spines in those crucial times. "Thinking it through", "Evaluating", etc. should be limited to the time till the nukes (of whatever size) are fired from the enemy side, not beyond that, that will kill us all....

If someone is just about to stab you on your chest with a knife, and you also have a knife in hand, would you use it with all your strength to defend yourself, or will you become philosophical about the ill effects of violence and killing people? I know what I would do...

@Joe Shearer @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @Sky lord @anant_s @hellfire

 

[PakSword]

I don't agree with you- CPEC will only bring misery to your people- Monopoly in any market is not beneficial for the buyers, CPEC is actually monopoly of the Chinese in the Pakistani market- you will have to buy whatever they sell- at whichever price they chose to sell- and then there are many other things- Which will make Pakistan solely dependent on China-

This is what our economist are already taking into consideration. Pakistan is inviting India to join CPEC. Iran has already been invited to link Chahbahar with CPEC.

Pakistan's intention is very clear and pure. Bring in India as a stakeholder, link Chahbahar with Gwadar and enjoy endless benefits in the coming centuries. Win win for all. But when raw operatives are arrested from within Pakistan, it takes years of efforts go into vein. This is where both countries are failing.

This is something I wanted to say in every 'nuke' thread, so saying it now...in very simple terms...

There is a good chance that a Pakistani officer might just set off a nuke in the hit of the battle...as in case of Pakistan, nukes are no more under the control of very high ranking people sitting in AC rooms and thinking it through.

Now, what would be the reaction of those high ranking Pakistani generals with bigger nukes when they get the news of a Nasr used in the battlefield? There can be possibilities of two kinds of people holding the keys to the bigger nukes, the sane, logical, intelligent, cool-headed, military planners bunch, and/or the insane, illogical, stupid, fanatic, 'gazis' kind of bunch.

On hearing about the use of Nasr; the sane, logical, intelligent, cool-headed, military planners bunch (if any) would think that "Oh $hit, now all bets are off, India might retaliate with nukes anytime, we must nuke them to hell before they nuke us".

The insane, illogical, stupid, fanatic, 'gazis' bunch (if any) on the other hand would think that "Hindus are too coward to retaliate, maybe they don't even have functional nukes, so just nuke them to hell and finish it once and for all".

Hence, in the event of a Nasr being fired, without any of "Thinking it through", India should consider that "Now all bets are off, we must nuke them to destroy Pakistan's ability to nuke us, at least to the extent possible to limit the damage to us, before their both sane and insane bunch reach to the same conclusion of nuking us".

This should be part of our military doctrine without any option for a second thought. In fact, once any nuke is fired from the opposite side, it should be an automatic process without any scope of intervention from the political leadership, because those in the political leadership may not find their spines in those crucial times. "Thinking it through", "Evaluating", etc. should be limited to the time till the nukes (of whatever size) are fired from the enemy side, not beyond that, that will kill us all....

If someone is just about to stab you on your chest with a knife, and you also have a knife in hand, would you use it with all your strength to defend yourself, or will you become philosophical about the ill effects of violence and killing people? I know what I would do...

@Joe Shearer @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @Sky lord @anant_s @hellfire

A childish comment again by an Indian.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

This is something I wanted to say in every 'nuke' thread, so saying it now...in very simple terms...

There is a good chance that a Pakistani officer might just set off a nuke in the hit of the battle...as in case of Pakistan, nukes are no more under the control of very high ranking people sitting in AC rooms and thinking it through.

Now, what would be the reaction of those high ranking Pakistani generals with bigger nukes when they get the news of a Nasr used in the battlefield? There can be possibilities of two kinds of people holding the keys to the bigger nukes, the sane, logical, intelligent, cool-headed, military planners bunch, and/or the insane, illogical, stupid, fanatic, 'gazis' kind of bunch.

On hearing about the use of Nasr; the sane, logical, intelligent, cool-headed, military planners bunch (if any) would think that "Oh $hit, now all bets are off, India might retaliate with nukes anytime, we must nuke them to hell before they nuke us".

The insane, illogical, stupid, fanatic, 'gazis' bunch (if any) on the other hand would think that "Hindus are too coward to retaliate, maybe they don't even have functional nukes, so just nuke them to hell and finish it once and for all".

Hence, in the event of a Nasr being fired, without any of "Thinking it through", India should consider that "Now all bets are off, we must nuke them to destroy Pakistan's ability to nuke us, at least to the extent possible to limit the damage to us, before their both sane and insane bunch reach to the same conclusion of nuking us".

This should be part of our military doctrine without any option for a second thought. In fact, once any nuke is fired from the opposite side, it should be an automatic process without any scope of intervention from the political leadership, because those in the political leadership may not find their spines in those crucial times. "Thinking it through", "Evaluating", etc. should be limited to the time till the nukes (of whatever size) are fired from the enemy side, not beyond that, that will kill us all....

If someone is just about to stab you on your chest with a knife, and you also have a knife in hand, would you use it with all your strength to defend yourself, or will you become philosophical about the ill effects of violence and killing people? I know what I would do...

@Joe Shearer @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @Sky lord @anant_s @hellfire

I think India's Nuclear doctrine was made very clear by the former SFC chairman a Vice Admiral from Navy can't remember his name- But you can see his lecture on Youtube, he gave at weapon designing center in the US-

This is what our economist are already taking into consideration. Pakistan is inviting India to join CPEC. Iran has already been invited to link Chahbahar with CPEC.

Pakistan's intention is very clear and pure. Bring in India as a stakeholder, link Chahbahar with Gwadar and enjoy endless benefits in the coming centuries. Win win for all. But when raw operatives are arrested from within Pakistan, it takes years of efforts go into vein. This is where both countries are failing.

RAW operative cannot single handedly stop everything and bring countries as big as India and Pakistan to the knees- think over It- Blaming RAW for everything is like what have been happening here for some time- blaming ISI for all ills- Which is getting less but who knows they might start again- Earlier they used to blame KGB and CIA- must have heard the famous pharse "Iss mein Videshi takat ka haanth h"- It became a Joke after some time- some day even ISI blaming will become a Joke and an excuse used by Politicians to cover their incompetence- In your case It would Army since they are at the forefront bringing this PR to cover up their incompetence- And your politicians feed off this-