US vacates checkposts ahead of SWA operation

[Vassnti]

Appologies i did miss read the article.

Though it seems even less important that it is check points rather than bases. Eight out of 150 american and what 850 Pakistani so its gone from 1000 check points to 992 would this cause a flood of Taliban across the border?

At 150 or 142 the border is under manned and always has been if 850 Pakistani check points cant stop cross border traffic then there is no hope the americans can do much with a quater of the number a few more or less will make no difference.

 

[S-2]

Here are my questions-

1.) Have your forces coordinated their planned ops with ours? Have radio call-signs/frequencies and graphic coordinating measures been placed on maps and exchanged?

2.) Will your forces be operating in areas immediately adjacent and within direct-fire weapons range?

3.) Are these U.S. "forces" military police, Afghan Border Police advisors, or actual combat units?

4.) Are these customs posts or military cantonments, i.e. a combat outpost (COP) or Forward Operating Base (FOB)?

Perhaps, in the absence of such, you don't mind fratricide but it would bother me in a big way. Further, it would be a real probability-not possibility, should battle move literally up to the border. You engage taliban fleeing into Afghanistan and that fire crosses borders too. Same for us should we engage taliban trying to cross.

Were it me and there's an absence of such coordination, I'd pull back to positions that are at least a couple of kilometers off the demarcation line that allow for observation. The land here is sufficiently channelized that not much would be likely lost in observation while dramatically reducing the probability of such fratricide.

More than friendlies being accidently shot, given tempers displayed here such an event might well escalate to deliberate combat-especially if troops are unable to contact one another.

The sad facts are that your army has REFUSED any meaningful tactical coordination up to this point with our forces and certainly no joint ops. As such, our practical experience of working with one another is nearly non-existent.

Now is not the time to begin without intense cooperative coordination planning and I'm uncertain if that's occurred. Do any of you xenophobic armchair warriors or that piss-ant reporter know?

I doubt it. You've been too busy ranting and the reporter has been too busy stirring the pot.

It worked.

Idiots.

All of you.

Thanks.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Appologies i did miss read the article.

Though it seems even less important that it is check points rather than bases. Eight out of 150 american and what 850 Pakistani so its gone from 1000 check points to 992 would this cause a flood of Taliban across the border?

At 150 or 142 the border is under manned and always has been if 850 Pakistani check points cant stop cross border traffic then there is no hope the americans can do much with a quater of the number a few more or less will make no difference.

If you know something about gurilla warfare tactics even absence of one check post can make hell of difference. 150 american check posts are stretched across whole durind line not on Waziristan only and checkposts I am mentioning were located next to Bajur from where TTP Mulvi Faqir Muhammad fled into Afghanistan and will find some safe heaven in US controlled Afghanistan... 850 Pakistani checkposts can only stop people once they are on Pakistani side of border not on Afghan side.

 

[PAFAce]

1.) Have your forces coordinated their planned ops with ours? Have radio call-signs/frequencies and graphic coordinating measures been placed on maps and exchanged?

What operations are you conducting in this region, actively, of any significance? Anything that compares with our efforts in Malakand-Bajaur? This is not a sarcastic question, I really want to know. Parallel operations would be helpful, especially if we want to sandwich the miscreants. In any case, it is not necessary for us to share all the details with you, you have never done the same for us. I am sure we have shared whatever we are willing to, keeping in mind that we're the ones really going after them, not you. You have your hesitation sharing details with us, it's simply hypocritical to suggest we must bare all for you.

The main question is: Are ISAF command actively communicating with Pakistani counterparts, to make sure that they could provide every possible support. After all, you have much to gain from a Pakistani victory in SWA (unless you entertain some sick, twisted fairytale of a direct Pak-US engagement). If you're out of the game, make yourself useful on the bench, don't abandon your teammates. Thus, the question stands, are we on the same team? if we are, how are you showing it?

 

[SSGPA1]

The sad facts are that your army has REFUSED any meaningful tactical coordination up to this point with our forces and certainly no joint ops. As such, our practical experience of working with one another is nearly non-existent.

Don`t you get it we don`t trust you!

What part is not clear and besides what contribution would US bring to any operation

Your guys are more interested in saving their own *****.

Read what General Stanley McChrystal is saying:

Gen McChrystal heavily criticises the way Nato forces have operated until now, saying that they had been "pre-occupied" with their own security and have distanced themselves from the Afghan population "physically and psychologically".

BBC NEWS | South Asia | McChrystal's blunt warning to the West

Pakistan should either cease the operation right now OR push these guys into Afghanistan!

I would prefer them running into Afghanistan lets see if US commanders ask their men to `do more`

 

[PakSher]

But as a nation we need to get to the bottom how TTP Hakeemullah Group can feed, deploy, arm, finance and train 7,000 men force. Who provide them anti-tank rockets, anti-aircraft guns, communication equipment, satellite phones, and other sophsiticated equipments. Yes, they can buy AK47, grenades, bullets, mines etc, no problem, but the other heavy munition need to supplied by an organized military manufacturer.

We need to ask US, NATO and ISAF how this is happening under their nose and why the CIA, MI5, French and Germans Intelligence Agencies do not know this. This double game needs to stop and we need to address this now.

 

[S-2]

You have my thoughts. I hope that they are sufficient to suggest much that you won't find mentioned in the article which so many here have taken to heart.

I'm glad for these operations now but I'll remind you that Bajaur is barely ONE YEAR AGO. The Islamic Emirate Of Waziristan? YESTERDAY. You act as though you've been engaged in serious combat in these reaches forever and that we've been invisible.

That tells me that you must be intentionally duplicitous or naively blind as most here at def.pk are well aware of my interest in the Korengal valley in Koner. We've been engaged fighting tangos there in serious combat since early 2007 and have been present there ourselves since 2005.

That valley, sir, is just one of many valleys from Khost to Konar/Nuristan where we've done so. There's been no lack of contacts between U.S. troops and the taliban/Hekmatyar/Haqqani troops for some very considerable time. There's been no lack of reporting of that combat either so learning about it would be no problem to those eager to know.

It is the Pakistani Army that are the newcomers to combat operations of any significance in this area. Not us.

Coordination with the P.A. in this area of the border has been repeatedly denied us by your military leaders. They shown NO interest in the conduct of joint operations much less simply coordinating separate ops in adjacent areas.

This absence of cooperation has stemmed from Kiyani repeatedly STIFFING Gen. Dan McNeil to the absence of qualified and experienced officers to man slots allocated to the P.A. at Torghum Coordination Center to a U.S. Army major murdered by an F.C. soldier in the midst of one of our infrequent meetings.

THAT, sir, is the history of local military coordination along your border and it isn't in any way our fault. We've attempted to do so repeatedly.

I'm disappointed that none of your military men here possess the BALLZ to stand up and admit exactly that much less the more simple and obvious matters of exchanging graphics/maps/freqs/callsigns in light of this extremely skewed and uninformed article...

...whom all on this thread have taken as gospel out-of-hand.

Thanks.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I would prefer them running into Afghanistan lets see if US commanders ask their men to `do more`[/B]

I totally agree. At least if the PA pushes them into Afghanistan they will be disrupted from their comfortable FATA beds and Pakistan may be able to extend its writ to FATA for the first time. All good. Once in Afghanistan they will be easier for the ISAF forces to get at. Anyway, this whole situation is an Afghan caused problem/responsibility so the collateral damage rightly belongs to them, not Pakistan.

 

[ejaz007]

There is lack of trust on both sides. Neither trsusts the other and perhaps this is the reason both don't share intelligence or operational details.

As far as vacation of posts is concerned it might have opposite effect then what has been suggested by majority of the members here. Instead of taliban pouring into Pakistan reverse might happen and when threatened they might escape to Afghanistan.

Then it shall be US headache to tackle them.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

The entire game will change once the US and her friends leave the region. I encourage those here to keep that in mind. I also want you to keep in mind that having just stated this, the US will never leave Afghanistan completely.

 

[TruthSeeker]

^^^^ KB, Doesn't look like the pentagon is planning on leaving Afghanistan anytime soon:

Military Seeks $1.3 Billion For Projects in Afghanistan

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 18, 2009

While the Obama administration weighs whether to send additional troops to Afghanistan, the U.S. military is spending billions of dollars on construction projects to ensure the country's infrastructure can support American and coalition personnel in 2010 and years beyond.

The military has already spent roughly $2.7 billion on construction over the past three fiscal years. Now, if its request is approved as part of the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill, it would spend another $1.3 billion on more than 100 projects at 40 sites across the country, according to a Senate report on the legislation.

At the main U.S. base in Afghanistan, Bagram, the military is planning to build a $30 million passenger terminal and adjacent cargo facility to handle the flow of troops, many of whom arrive at the base north of Kabul before moving onto other sites. Under the proposed schedule, those facilities will not be completed until late 2010 and go into operation early in 2011, according to military sources.

Pittman recalled that Bagram Air Base had cement block buildings constructed by the Soviets in the 1970s and '80s. When U.S. forces began to arrive in December 2001, most had to be put up in tents. While some troops are still housed in the Soviet-constructed buildings, close to $500 million has been spent to upgrade the base, which has 32 acres of ramp space, four large hangars, new barracks and an improvised terminal.

Now, there's a touch of America at the base, including fast-food options including Burger King and Pizza Hut.

Bagram is far from the only U.S. base being upgraded. The military is also spending hundreds of millions of dollars constructing facilities for the Afghan army and police. The U.S.-led coalition recently announced the opening of a $68 million, U.S.-financed forward operating base near Farah, in the western part of the country bordering on Iran. The base will house 2,000 Afghan soldiers and an American mentoring team.

Such bases can take a long time to build. The original solicitation for contractors on the Farah garrison project was dated Dec. 29, 2007. A proposal for an additional phase was offered in March 2008, and 18 months later, almost two years after it was first solicited, the garrison at Farah was opened.

washingtonpost.com

 

[S-2]

"There is lack of trust on both sides. Neither trsusts the other "

That lack of trust at the strategic/operational level did not impede our combat commanders from RC-EAST on down to the company level from doing everything reasonable to establish and build a solid rapport with their counterparts across the border.

Those are the facts.

The facts also include that we were repeatedly denied the opportunities to do so by YOUR combat commanders and their superiors.

WHY do you think that Torkhum JOINT coordination center was built and others planned, as example?

Finally, where are your military men here to call this article bullsh!t for the same damnedably obvious narrow and technical military considerations which I have?

None of them were a consideration of this half-azzed reporter when he wrote his article. He achieved his intent with his very domestic, nationalistic, and xenophobic audience. Heaven forbid that either he nor his readers ask the SALIENT practical questions needed.

So much easier to open the floodgates and let the bullsh!t run rampant.

It has.

 

[Rank]

Who promote Terrrorism and Safe Exit and In/out to TTP (so called Taliban)???

AMERICA!!!

 

[S-2]

"so called" eh?

Guess you're one of those that see "good" taliban and "bad" taliban differently?

Then you don't mind one bit that the "good" taliban have killed most of the afghans in this war by nearly 2-1 according to both the U.N. and HRW?

Mid Year Bulletin On Protection Of Civilians In Armed Conflict, 2009- United Nations Assistance Mission To Afghanistan

I guess you don't mind that they use the afghan citizens as human shields when they are about to get their azzes kicked by ISAF?

I guess you don't mind when they intentionally TARGET afghan civilians with bombs, rockets, and mortars to increase their fear, anger, and emotional trauma?

I guess you don't care when they disfigure women with acid?

Don't believe me, do you?

Try this for your bed-time reading, if you can read at all-

The Human Cost: The Consequences of Insurgent Attacks In Afghanistan-HRW

It's in pashtu also if you prefer.

I know it's a waste of time for a twisted mind like yours. Upsetting too when faced with FACTS that knock over your skewed perspectives like bowling pins but, who knows, maybe you'll actually READ something for a change.

Thanks.

 

[Rank]

"so called" eh?

Guess you're one of those that see "good" taliban and "bad" taliban differently?

Then you don't mind one bit that the "good" taliban have killed most of the afghans in this war by nearly 2-1 according to both the U.N. and HRW?

Mid Year Bulletin On Protection Of Civilians In Armed Conflict, 2009- United Nations Assistance Mission To Afghanistan

I guess you don't mind that they use the afghan citizens as human shields when they are about to get their azzes kicked by ISAF?

I guess you don't mind when they intentionally TARGET afghan civilians with bombs, rockets, and mortars to increase their fear, anger, and emotional trauma?

I guess you don't care when they disfigure women with acid?

Don't believe me, do you?

Try this for your bed-time reading, if you can read at all-

The Human Cost: The Consequences of Insurgent Attacks In Afghanistan-HRW

It's in pashtu also if you prefer.

I know it's a waste of time for a twisted mind like yours. Upsetting too when faced with FACTS that knock over your skewed perspectives like bowling pins but, who knows, maybe you'll actually READ something for a change.

Thanks.

Before point out any one ( good bad ) bla bla bullshits go and see what US soldier said!! where is your super duper remarks over HERE open and listen CAREFULLY! thn telme GOOD BAD blaa bla!


http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/36694-american-soldier-coffessions-us-soldiers-heartly-speech-about-his-stay-iraq.html


Next time before commenting thinkg twice otherwise one more kick @ ur *** from my side once again! and about PROVIDED link "LISTEN CAREFULLY"

and waste of time discussion over anything with person like u ... you telme fact bla blaa there is no SUICIDE ATTACKS and innocent people killing BEFORE 9/11 LIKE TODAY... you talk about FACTS ??