US Senate warns Obama on Rouhani in letter signed by 76 lawmakers

[idune]

@idune


Of course, when it comes to the Saudi point of view on Syria, our involvement is an act of aggression, but Iran's and Hezbollah's are an act of self interests. Wether you like it or not we interfered, and openly admitted it, there is nothing much you can do about it except shouting and raving.



In Yemen? We acted out when we were attacked by the scums you are sympathizing with. Slaughtering them was our moral duty since we know who armed and trained them. Bahrain, is a similar situation, we will not allow Hezbollah and their masters to rub our lands, again, there is nothing much you can do about it.

As you said nothing can be done about it. If that is Saudi stand then there is nothing to be discussed until other party gets upper hand over Saudi moves. And if things go according to the US admin wish then that day will not be far off. Saudi Arabian rulers and elites made gross mistake looking for short term dominance but failed to see big picture how they already lost their leadership place in the eyes of people of middle east and in many parts of Islamic world.

 

[kalu_miah]

As a South Asian Muslim, i don't want this raging sectarian flame from the Middle East to burn down my country any more than it already has. This is a alien concept to our region.

Regardless of who started it first, what matters is that we eradicate this sectarianism and distance ourselves from any "charity" offers coming from that region.

As you said, Saudis look after their interest, indians theirs, Iranians theirs, etc and in the same fashion, we too should look after our own interest and form relations with whom we want.

Shia bashing is not quite alien to South Asia as you would like to think:

Persecution of Shia Muslims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

India

Shias in India faced persecution by some Sunni rulers and Mughal Emperors which resulted in the martyrdom of Indian Shia scholars like Qazi Nurullah Shustari (also known as Shaheed-e-Thaalis, the third Martyr) and Mirza Muhammad Kamil Dehlavi (also known as Shaheed-e- Rabay, the fourth Martyr) who are two of the five martyrs of Shia Islam. Shias also faced persecution in India in Kashmir for centuries, by the Sunni invaders of the region which resulted in massacre of many Shias and as a result most of them had to flee the region.[10]
Shias in Kashmir in subsequent years had to pass through the most atrocious period of their history. Plunder, loot and massacres which came to be known as ‘Taarajs’ virtually devastated the community. History records 10 such Taarajs also known as ‘Taraj-e-Shia’ between 15th to 19th century in 1548, 1585, 1635, 1686, 1719, 1741, 1762, 1801, 1830, 1872 during which the Shia habitations were plundered, people slaughtered, libraries burnt and their sacred sites desecrated. Such was the reign of terror during this period that the community widely went into the practice of Taqya in order to preserve their lives and the honor of their womenfolk.[11]
Village after village disappeared, with community members either migrating to safety further north or dissolving in the majority faith. The persecution suffered by Shias in Kashmir during the successive foreign rules was not new for the community. Many of the standard bearers of Shia’ism, like Sa’adaat or the descendants of the Prophet Mohammad and other missionaries who played a key role in spread of the faith in Kashmir, had left their home lands forced by similar situations.
...........

Pakistan has been seeing a surge in violence against Shia Muslims in the country in recent years. The violence has claimed lives of thousands of men, women and children. Shia make up at least 20% of the total population in Pakistan and come from different ethnic backgrounds. Doctors, businessmen and other professionals have been targeted in Karachi by Sunni Muslim militants on a regular basis. Hazara people in Quetta, have lost nearly 800 community members. Most of them have fallen victim to terrorist attacks by Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan which is a Sunni Muslim militant organization affiliated with Al-Qaeda and Taliban. In the northern areas of Pakistan, such as Parachinar and Gilgit-Baltistan, Muslim mitants have continuously been attacking and killing Shiites. In the most recent incident on August 16, 2012, some 25 Shia passengers were pulled out of four buses on Babusar road, when they were going home to celebrate Eid with their families. They were summarily executed by Al-Qaeda affiliated Sunni Muslim militants. On the same day, three Hazara community members were shot dead in Pakistan's southwestern town of Quetta.

And else where in the Muslim world:

Persecution under Seljuk/Ottoman Empire

Main article: Ottoman persecution of Alevis
In response to the growth of Shiism and the growing influence of the Safavids, the Ottoman Empire put Shias to the sword in Anatolia. Thousands of Shias were massacred in the Ottoman Empire, including the Alevis in Turkey, the Alawis in Syria and the Shi'a of Lebanon.[9]

China

Most foreign slaves in Xinjiang were Shia Ismaili Mountain Tajiks of China. They were referred to by Sunni Turkic Muslims as Ghalcha, and subjected to enslavement because they were different from the Sunni Turkic inhabitants.[12] Shia Muslims were sold as slaves in Khotan. The Muslims in Xinjiang ignored Islamic rules, selling and buying Muslims as slaves.[13]

Malaysia

Malaysia bans Shia's from promoting their faith.[14]

Indonesia

On December 29, 2011 in Nangkrenang, Sampang, Madura Island a Shia Islamic boarding school, a school adviser house and a school's principal house have been burned by local villagers and people from outside. Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world which is dominated by Sunni. A day after the persecution, a Jakarta Sunni preacher said:"It was their own fault. They have established a pesantren (Islamic school) in a Sunni area. Besides, being a Shiite is a big mistake. The true teaching is Sunni and God will only accept Sunni Muslims. If the shiites want to live in peace, they have to repent and convert."[23][24] Amnesty International had recorded many cases of intimidation and violence against religious minorities in Indonesia by Radical Islamic groups and urged the Indonesian government to provide protection for hundred of Shiites who have been forced to return to their village in East Java.[25]

We would all like to stop the sectarianism and move towards nation building. But the reality is that we do not live in an isolated world and we South Asians are not in a socio-economic state to avoid getting affected by our Arab or Iranian "brothers".

It all has to start with Iran taking responsibility for its actions. The buck stops with Iran and its theocracy.

 

[Serpentine]

Shia bashing is not quite alien to South Asia as you would like to think:

Persecution of Shia Muslims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And else where in the Muslim world:


We would all like to stop the sectarianism and move towards nation building. But the reality is that we do not live in an isolated world and we South Asians are not in a socio-economic state to avoid getting affected by our Arab or Iranian "brothers".

It all has to start with Iran taking responsibility for its actions. The buck stops with Iran and its theocracy.

This Iran-obsession game has no ending and you are quite good at it.
You post links about prosecution of Shias by many 'Muslim' countries in the world and in the end you conclude that it will all stop after Iran's 'theocracy' is gone. How more ridiculous could it get?

 

[kalu_miah]

This Iran-obsession game has no ending and you are quite good at it.
You post links about prosecution of Shias by many 'Muslim' countries in the world and in the end you conclude that it will all stop after Iran's 'theocracy' is gone. How more ridiculous could it get?

The historic persecutions I pointed out are in reply to another poster. The recent ones after 1979, I have already stated the source.

Your theocracy just need to stop meddling in other parts of the world, whether they stay or not that is up to Iranian people.

 

[Serpentine]

The historic persecutions I pointed out are in reply to another poster. The recent ones after 1979, I have already stated the source.

Your theocracy just to need to stop meddling in other parts of the world, whether they stay or not that is up to Iranian people.

Iran is meddling in others' affairs as much as others are meddling in our affairs, that's a fair game.

 

[Desert Fox]

Shia bashing is not quite alien to South Asia as you would like to think:

Persecution of Shia Muslims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And else where in the Muslim world:

What you quoted from wikipedia about sectarian violence in Pakistan is about recent years, the last 3 decades to be exact. And it was exactly in the last three decades that we allowed certain "charity" groups from certain countries in the Middle East to enter Pakistan and spread their mentality.


This sectarianism was very limited, in fact almost non-existent some 35-40 years ago.

We would all like to stop the sectarianism and move towards nation building. But the reality is that we do not live in an isolated world and we South Asians are not in a socio-economic state to avoid getting affected by our Arab or Iranian "brothers".

There are better alternatives to Iran or the Saudis. Russia, China, and Central Asian Muslim countries are a good alternative for Pakistan if it comes to energy needs and trade relations.

 

[kalu_miah]

What you quoted from wikipedia about sectarian violence in Pakistan is about recent years, the last 3 decades to be exact. And it was exactly in the last three decades that we allowed certain "charity" groups from certain countries in the Middle East to enter Pakistan and spread their mentality.

This sectarianism was very limited, in fact almost non-existent some 35-40 years ago.

There are better alternatives to Iran or the Saudis. Russia, China, and Central Asian Muslim countries are a good alternative for Pakistan if it comes to energy and trade. We're just lacking good leadership and strong administrative system.

The historic part is under India (Mughal empire, Kashmir etc.), if you have not read that part of the post.

Moving away from Mid-east and more towards Russia and Central Asia is something I promote for Pakistan and Iran:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region-3.html

For Arabs, here is the road map I predict and prescribe:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180771-geopolitics-gcc-region.html

People mistake me for some kind of sectarian nut. Please go through this early thread I created:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/164048-kalu_miahs-new-world-order-road-map-future.html

My core ideas are more about regionalism and regional integration (please read my signature). Any action by states that hampers this integration, I consider that negative for that part of the world.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

As you said, Saudis look after their interest, indians theirs, Iranians theirs, etc and in the same fashion, we too should look after our own interest and form relations with whom we want.

I agree entirely, Pakistan has way too many internal issues at the moment to deal with regional rivalries which are pretty much none of our business in the first place. Let others do what they want provided they don't harm us & vice versa. We need to focus on getting rid of corruption, extremism, sectarianism, power shortages, nepotism, terrorism, etc. Our economy is in dire need of repair too, & solving the previously mentioned problems would go a long way in fixing our economy.

As far as foreign relations are concerned, it’s always been the case that every nation focuses on its own interests. We need to get our priorities in order as well; peaceful & friendly relations with our neighbors are a must. Any problem that affects them, will eventually affect us, case in point; Afghanistan. There are many other countries we need to improve our relations with, in terms of both economic & cultural exchange. Central Asian nations are just one group that Pakistan should focus at, but there are multitudes of nations too. I noticed that Pakistan's foreign policy involves focusing on becoming friendly or improving ties with a nation only if it’s an Islamic nation, or a rising economic or military power. I would suggest improving our trade relations & inviting foreign investors from South American countries, particularly Brazil & other Eastern European nations as well. Some students & cultural exchange programs to develop a friendly bond between communities would help too. You would be surprised at how friendly people are if they aren't avoided simply for not being part of the “ummah”.

Some initiatives in this regard do exist, but most of us know that the majority of our past initiatives to improve ties with pretty much anyone but a few haven't been fruitful. As for Kashmir, I came to terms with this a long time ago that Kashmir is no one else's fight besides our own. Regardless of what some anonymous individuals on an Internet forum might say to appease Pakistanis, the simple fact is that in the real world no one besides us & a minuscule minority of foreign (mostly Asian) Muslims truly cares about the Kashmir issue. Don't expect anyone to cry for Kashmiris the way Pakistanis cry over the suffering of Palestinians. That is assuming that they know such an issue exists in the first place, the ignorance of foreign Muslims on the Kashmir issue is astounding. Some, who may know about it, do not consider it to be a religious conflict but rather a battle for land. In conclusion, I think its best that Pakistanis avoid becoming infatuated with other countries or cultures, & accept that the most important thing in the international arena is watching your own back.

 

[Pakistanisage]

As a South Asian Muslim, i don't want this raging sectarian flame from the Middle East to burn down my country any more than it already has. This is a alien concept to our region.

Regardless of who started it first, what matters is that we eradicate this sectarianism and distance ourselves from any "charity" offers coming from that region.

As you said, Saudis look after their interest, indians theirs, Iranians theirs, etc and in the same fashion, we too should look after our own interest and form relations with whom we want.

The Shias in Pakistan use to remain pretty low profile till 1979 advent of The big Khomeini revolution in IRAN. That is when this Khomeini revolution came to Pakistan and Pakistani Shias started following Khomeini. That is when Pakistani society seriously felt this Shia-Sunni rift. The reason for this rift was that after the Big Satan revolution all Pakistani Shias overnight became "Wanna be " Iranians and followers of Khomeini. The fact that Iranians started to export their Big Satan revolution to Pakistan did not sit too well with most Sunni Pakistanis.
@Yzd Khalifa , @kalu_miah

I am the biggest supporter of Shias in Pakistan. They are our countrymen and their life and liberty must be protected at all costs in Pakistan because they are citizens of Pakistan. But then Pakistani Shias will not go out in public and bash Sunni nations. I have never seen any Pakistani Shia unload this kind of venom on any TV talk shows or in Public.

This is where Internet comes into play. Every coward who would not normally say anything that provocative becomes a tiger. Like @Cheetah786 who acts brave from behind the security of a keyboard. In real life he is @mouse786. This explain all the cowardly Pakistani Shias bashing Arabs because they feel secure from behind the safety of their Computer Keyboards.

A coward will act big when he feels he is safe. A brave man remains humble even when he is safe from danger.

 

[Secur]

I never contested such fact, if you care to read my posts in here, I stated earlier that Pakistan should stay the hell out of the ME.

Are we even in the Middle East ?

 

[Arabian Legend]

Slow down on @Armstrong please. He happens to be from Kashmir that our Gov't didn't do what most people would expect them to do.

@Armstrong is my boy, he knows me better that nothing will make me happy except to see Pakistan flourishing in every field of life. At that time he was in need of some ventilation, I thought I would give him a wide area to breath. I just want to let him know that I'm still keeping up to my promises, No Kafyyah, No Hummus. Also, this Eid is going to be different...Sherwani sounds perfect.

 

[iranigirl2]

@al-Hasani Now that you based your reasoning upon my post...

Of course for majority of Iranians their country comes first, you certainly can't expect Iranians to sacrifice their country for Arabs and Muslims, majority of whom don't even recognize Shia as a sect of Islam?

I also have to say that I'm completely against the current foreign policy which is based on enmity with Israel, as a matter of fact I think Israel could be one of the very few Iran's neutral allies in the region, and continued enmity with Israel has only created problems for our country. Israel's significant influence in the U.S. is a common knowledge and as an Iranian I very much would like not to have to deal with a country that influences world's first superpower policies. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either too ideological or too stupid to understand this fact.

Why Iran should have to pay the price for Palestinians? What most Arabs don't understand is that actually current Iranian government is very much pro-Arab. Had a fully democratic system been implemented in Iran, I don't think if people would have allowed the government to take steps in a direction that would endanger the country's interests, therefore my suggestion for Arabs is not to try to undermine the current Iranian government, because the next one certainly won't be very friendly towards Arabs and you most likely gonna have a very Israel friendly Iran and I assume that wouldn't be too good for Arabs!

I wouldn't waste my time talking to people like kalu_miah,al-hasani,and other people like them here.

They are ideological and don't understand geopolitics and the Middle east.

 

[Doritos11]

Sectarianism and division is Fitna and it is not good, I agree. But once Iran has started it, it is unavoidable. Every action usually has some reaction. It is difficult to hide behind nationalism once the fire of sectarianism has been lit. You should know this more than any other.

Why has Iran started it ? is 1979 the first year of "Fitna" or Sunni-Shia trouble for that matter. How about we say that Arabs started it, Arabs attacked the Sassanid empire which started all of this eventually. So Arabs started it.

You talk about fitna of 1979 and how unavoidable it is, while we are in 2013 and now your the one spreading fitna and lighting secterianism everywhere along with many others on PDF. Theres no excuse you can give for it, but you will keep doing it nevertheless cause this you believe in.
As for our countries, again Arabs and mainly Saudis are acting as if they love Pakistan to death while they just want them to serve their interests and fight/defend them like Saddam defended them against Iran. Iraq used to be a friend to them but now it can go to hell cause Shia’s rule it, same applies for Pakistan.
Therefor as stated in my previous comment, they need to quit this show using Islam as a political tool, using Aroor to spread his secterian bs confirms that.

 

[iranigirl2]

The historic persecutions I pointed out are in reply to another poster. The recent ones after 1979, I have already stated the source.

Your theocracy just need to stop meddling in other parts of the world, whether they stay or not that is up to Iranian people.

What about Saudi Arabia meddling in Pakistan and controlling the politics there?


The Saudis are long accustomed to having a significant role in Pakistan's affairs. A 2007 cable recounts a boast of the Saudi ambassador to the U.S., Adel al-Jubeir, who is reportedly a close confidant of King Abdullah: "We in Saudi Arabia are not observers in Pakistan, we are participants."

Read more: WikiLeaks Reveals Saudi Arabia's Role in Pakistani Affairs - TIME






What about Saudi Arabia interfering in Afghanistan ( a Persian country) in the 1980's?



The Taliban is an Islamic fundamentalist political movement in Afghanistan. It spread into Afghanistan and formed a government, ruling as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan from September 1996 until December 2001, with Kandahar as the capital. However, it gained diplomatic recognition from only three states: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.


Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

A Persian country? A Persian country? Are you serious

Guys check this Persian supremecy out @al-Hasani @BLACKEAGLE @JUBA @Arabian Legend @Mosamania @tyrant @Bubblegum Crisis @MooshMoosh

I guess that is the reason why you have been sanctioned to death baby girl your supremecy is killing you, the mullahs are spending fortunes outside your country to achieve their Persian supremacist dreams

( a Persian country) in the 1980's?

We taught them one of the greatest lessons of all time as we turned Persia upside down that up until now they still live the bless of it. It wasn't all about religion only, we changed their culture dramatically, heritage, litrature, language, identity, and even their names!!! that's why they are mad t us Arabians.

Arabs attacked the Sassanid empire which started all of this eventually. So Arabs started it.

the Big Satan revolution all Pakistani Shias overnight became "Wanna be " Iranians and followers of the Khomeini.

A coward will act big when he feels he is safe. A brave man remains humble even when he is safe from danger.

Fair enough Sage, I wish those who bashed you for being racist understand that the issue you have is with the Mullahs and those who cheered for now, not only else.

Are we even in the Middle East ?

You guys are everywhere from South America to China (; ..