US-Pakistan talks on military bases reach impasse: report

[IceCold]

Loosing Pakistan completely is not an option for US; no matter how much some here would like you to believe. This region is gone if US loose Pakistan completely. So it's US who has to make the best out of the worst situation not Pakistan.

US has made its decision with India, while we have made with China, none can coexist at this stage. US is just trying to do what it always have been doing having its way with pakistan. I believe after ZA Bhutto it would be the 2nd time US is facing a resistance. Otherwise people have bend over for far too little in the past.

 

[VCheng]

Keep an eye on baradars. That's where the pressure will come


The stakes are different for both; for Pakistan it's financial; for US it's strategic and already rapidly declining power game. This region consolidating with her natural allies (neighbors) is a game over for US. So you tell me; who should be worried more?

It is in the interests of both sides to be able to work with each other, for different goals according to their respective national interests. There is always the next chapter in this never-ending game of international geopolitics.

 

[Ace of Spades]

US has made its decision with India, while we have made with China, none can coexist at this stage. US is just trying to do what it always have been doing having its way with pakistan. I believe after ZA Bhutto it would be the 2nd time US is facing a resistance. Otherwise people have bend over for far too little in the past.

It's all about "bad china" now. It's not about Pakistan, Afghanistan, good and bad actors etc. But this topic requires a separate thread. @Mangus Ortus Novem where you at??

Wait for digital yuan; silk road, digital silk road. Central asia+ China+ Russia+ Pakistan+ Africa... that's where the game lies. Rest is just hogwash.

And Pakistan's establishment making stupid decisions at this point in time would be potentially fatal for some petty gains. As i said before; no matter what US offers to lure Pakistan including debt relief, F35s or what not. It should be a no from Pakistan

 

[IceCold]

As i said before; no matter what US offers to lure Pakistan including debt relief, F35s or what not. It should be a no from Pakistan

Exactly! I think establishment and government are in agreement over this. US as usual tried to approach both with having meetings with army chief, and on the other hand engaging government, they got a unified response of no. Now i believe will be the challenge to counter dirty US tactics. We will see pressurizing from the fake wanabe liberals to curbs on freedom of media, FATF, corrupt opposition. Remember the guy leading PDM Fazal Aka diesel is the one who asked americans to get him installed as PM and he would do as and when required. US can go as far as to try to sabotage and overthrow the current government and install one that is more friendly with the US like ppp.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Exactly! I think establishment and government are in agreement over this. US as usual tried to approach both with having meetings with army chief, and on the other hand engaging government, they got a unified response of no. Now i believe will be the challenge to counter dirty US tactics. We will see pressurizing from the fake wanabe liberals to curbs on freedom of media, FATF, corrupt opposition. Remember the guy leading PDM Fazal Aka diesel is the one who asked americans to get him installed as PM and he would do as and when required. US can go as far as to try to sabotage and overthrow the current government and install one that is more friendly with the US like ppp.

That's where the civil society needs to keep check; this however is not possible without government + establishment being transparent. They should make these negotiations public and bring it to Parliament.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... What Musharraf gave away in 2000 was necessary in his view g8ven the prevaling situation of Pakistan. People sitting in plush drawing rooms will dissect and analyze this decision without realizing the pressures on him and how he had to deal with them. ...

Nobody elected him to handle those "pressures". He was a coward who could point guns at his own civilian Government but surrendered to a foreign one claiming it to be in "national interests".

Pakistani Army Chiefs are not built to do international politics even though they like to think so.

Had there been a lalchi Pakistani Army Chief at the helm in 2015, he would've gone head first into Yemen all for "national interests".

 

[ziaulislam]

No, I was talking about Pakistan Army Generals only since these unelectable individuals are obsessed with controlling the Foreign and Defence policy.

They'll even kill Prime Ministers, allow siege of the Capital or make arrangements for setting up IJT courts to do that. It's a shame really.

So u r saying pakistanis have no ghairat to ask nawaz sharif and zaradri why they didnt do anything (or resigned or fired the army chief like in 1998 when he was about to fire musharraf) when the country was bombed by USA
Obama says zaradri & sharif was very happy when we r bombing pakistan

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

So u r saying pakistanis have no ghairat to ask nawaz sharif and zaradri why they didnt do anything (or resigned or fired the army chief like in 1998 when he was about to fire musharraf) when the country was bombed by USA
Obama says zaradri & sharif was very happy when we r bombing pakistan

You and your bongiyan.

 

[Thorough Pro]

We have done far too much for the USA than they can ever be thankful for.
Enough is enough.
They worked hard for thirty years with their foul big mouths and deserve their current misery.
Pakistan has never benefited with our relationship with the USA, the money they call wrongfully aid is not worth 10% of the services we provided them.

Pakistan is doing well and would do very well without them. If it wasn't for the financial woes due to corrupt politicians, I would suggest we use F 16's as target practice for Thunders.

It is in the interests of both sides to be able to work with each other, for different goals according to their respective national interests. There is always the next chapter in this never-ending game of international geopolitics.

 

[ziaulislam]

You and your bongiyan.

well, as long as drone strikes happened in FATA army and political leadership(PMLN & PPPP) was fine with it..this my bongee

as FATA wasnt part of pakistan..

 

[HAIDER]

I know. This is the only reason that only one nuclear power has been bombed by another nuclear power with 430 drone strike and the victim took it lying down.

The Bureau of Investigative Journalists: Drone Warfare

View attachment 751690​

Then again, a person needs to have ghairat in the first place to understand what ghairat is.

They killed a load of TTP boys ... nice work. No problem if US drones takecare of TTP..

 

[koolio]

When challenged Godfather minions see everything is fake, the great Sultan of Avenfield Palace sat on his fat arse enjoying his luxury lifestyle in London doesn't give a toss about ordinary Pakistanis but his followers still worship him can't see anything wrong with Khata be hai lekin lagata hai slogan.

Why should Pakistan entertain more misery upon itself, US has always treated Pakistan with disdain.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Bhai.
When have I said that I know everything or that I have com0lete control over the decisions that the government of Pakistan make. I ventured an opinion j7st like 99% of the posters who remain clueless about the inner wofkings of the government.
You have maligned Gen Bajwa. What is your source of information that he is the worst thing since General Kiyani. For that matter what do you know about what Gen Kiyani did that you consider him a bad General and bad for Pakistan.
Please share your information/reasoning so we can discuss matters further.As to US bases in Pakistan we had them during Ayub's time and during Musharraf's time. You have chosen to malign just Kiyani. Care to discuss why you do not paint Musharraf and Ayub with the same brush?
Bases per se do not matter! It is/what those bases are used for. The use of drones for elimination of TTP inside Pakistan were done with full cooperation of the basterds who sat at the helm of affairs(polity, beaurocracy and military) So why do you specifically blame Kiyani when there was a political government in place. Is it just because they jumped up and down denying they had nothing to do with the strikes while Kiyani kept quiet.
Raheel Shareef used boots to get rid of TTP from Tribal areas. So essentially he used his own army against its own people. ThenWhy is he good and Kiyani bad if the only parameter is use of force against own people?
So what I am trying to point out is there are no black and qhites in governance. There are many shades of gray and most governments utilize these to advance their interests. What Musharraf gave away in 2000 was necessary in his view g8ven the prevaling situation of Pakistan. People sitting in plush drawing rooms will dissect and analyze this decision without realizing the pressures on him and how he had to deal with them. What Imran does is going to be analyzed as well and people may still end up criticizing him for not having made the right decision
US once it decides to put pressure on Pakistan will make life difficult at multiple levels. At the moment it seems we are holding fine. At the end of the day it is/all about national interests. If Pakistan's nationql interests are served by the move it will be complied with.
A

The biggest terrorist was hiding next door to your military academy? You allowed another military to conduct operation inside your country, you allowed them to slaughter your soldiers, and countless civilians with drones which were operating in your own country!
And you still say why i am maligning him, when he was incharge, the face of the military. Who put political gov of most corrupt people in first place, care to shed some light of agreement b/w mush and BB and who was the main broker?
The thing is pak military although potray itself to be safegaurd of pakistan, the almighty when in reality it is the one that does the most harm (its generals but than again they are the real decision makers, officers below are just following orders).

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

well, as long as drone strikes happened in FATA army and political leadership(PMLN & PPPP) was fine with it..this my bongee

as FATA wasnt part of pakistan..

No, it was not fine with it due to the secret military deals the Pakistan Army did with the US. Details of which will not be made public for at least 50 years as per US laws.

The Pakistani military threatened to topple both the PPP and PML Governments through dharna and other intimidation tactics and totally dominated and controlled the Foreign policy vis a vis War on Islam, I mean terror.

I am sure you're not a child and you'll remember when PPP Government had asked the Pakistani military to shoot down US drones. The military said no, excuse given was that they fly too high and Pakistan did not posses the technology to shoot them down.

Then we found out that the drones were actually flying out from the Shamsi Airbase all along. And that's just one airbase that was publically acknowledged. Allah knows best how many others have been rented out.

 

[Adecypher]

No, it was not fine with it due to the secret military deals the Pakistan Army did with the US. Details of which will not be made public for at least 50 years as per US laws.

The Pakistani military threatened to topple both the PPP and PML Governments through dharna and other intimidation tactics and totally dominated and controlled the Foreign policy vis a vis War on Islam, I mean terror.

I am sure you're not a child and you'll remember when PPP Government had asked the Pakistani military to shoot down US drones. The military said no, excuse given was that they fly too high and Pakistan did not posses the technology to shoot them down.

Then we found out that the drones were actually flying out from the Shamsi Airbase all along. And that's just one airbase that was publically acknowledged. Allah knows best how many others have been rented out.

Bhai jaan woh past tha...IF you are sure that this will be the case again then list information with reference so we all know.