US offers to sell weapons to Bangladesh

[UKBengali]

Yes but perhaps reliability should be an issue. However in the end it's all are up to authority that which one they will choose.

Gripen has been in service for 2 decades with many airforces and only 7 Gripen have crashed so far. 250 have been built so far and Brazil will produce 100 for it's own needs.

 

[VikingRaider]

Gripen has been in service for 2 decades with many airforces and only 7 Gripen have crashed so far. 250 have been built so far and Brazil will produce 100 for it's own needs.

Okay so what about few Gripen and few f 16 ? As we should not put eggs on same basket . And I am against Eastern Aircrafts

 

[UKBengali]

Okay so what about few Gripen and few f 16 ? As we should not put eggs on same basket . And I am against Eastern Aircrafts

What about war against India, unlikely that is?

US for sure will take Indian's side. China's latest J-10s are not that far behind Western fighters and their tech is advancing faster than anyone else.

 

[cabatli_53]

Thanks for steering this thread back to actual discussion worth anything.

I believe the US maybe trying to offload a few things to us but like our minister said (and practically so), we are low end buyer.

So - what can we actually buy from the US that is low end?

Quite a few things actually.

There are aircraft and fairly advanced tanks and armor (for subcontinental scenario) that we can get from the US.

We could get F16's and F18's, (latest versions of F-16's fitted with conformal tanks from Turkey would be my choice) as frontline fighters which are analogs to Mig35 (but not Su-30 variant).

We could get nice armor (refurbished/re-engined and fitted with new sensors and gun computers by a third country such as Turkey) such as the M60's (upgraded to Sabra standard) at super-reasonable prices for our 'numbers' Tank requirement. For 'quality' requirement we can get either Altay tanks or MBT3000.

We could get older wheeled AFV's such as various LAV variants refurbished (again) in Turkey which are excellent mobile infantry and fire support platforms capable of 62 mph.

In this respect we can follow the examples of Turkey and Egypt, both countries are heavy duty users of new and refurbished US systems.

@cabatli_53 your thoughts please brother.

Bro, US do not want to miss any chance to make profit and It must be underlined that No state could come close to engineering level They have developed in some fields of fighter aircrafts. In this perspective, They are aware of their capacity so behaving arrogant to costumers who is out of NATO(even with NATO states) If you do not have pressure tools to drive US officials into corner to receive better offer for more capable fighter variants. Otherwise, They will make you pressure to select their fighters without any promising EW suit (lack of MWR, RWR), BVR and long range missile capability. If the size of tender is large enough to attract full attention of aircraft manufacturers, US may agree on giving more capabilities to strenghten their seats. Check Egyptian procurements over US, They are mostly downgraded fighters so Egypt need to diversify their aircraft procurements with fighters from different origin which causes logistic nightmare and extra budgets for training as well. Different fighters can not commucate with eachother. That is also a big defficiency in network centric warfare environment. I believe Those won’t help Bangladesh to challenge with latest generation threats in own region. If US agree on giving latest generation fighters with full sensor and protection package, then It will be perfect for Bangladesh Air Forces.

Besides, Turkey doesn’t have any rights over F-16 fighters. Although Turkiye has a huge infrastructure over F16 fighting falcons, Neither We can produce, nor change any components without getting US approval. It is their own fighter. We are just costumers.

Turkey needs 3-5 years for a fighter aircraft and 10-12 years for 5th generation stealth fighter aircraft to meet the requirements of brother states like Bangladesh in order to declare great percentage freedom from Western sources. Out of aircrafts, There won’t be a problem for land vehicles. Turkiye can provide anything Bangladesh can require from tanks to advanced IFV’s, Armoured wheeler/tracked vehicles...etc

Kaplan-MT is the new generation IFV/Light Tank Turkey has developed for Indonesia under full tech transfer deal.

AV-8 is wheeled APC developed for Malaysia under full tech transfer deal.

In last year, TAI expresses that they were advance discussions with Bangladesh to sell T-129 Atak helicopters. I do not know current statue of negotiations but After Pakistan and Philippines, Selection of Atak for Bangladesh will be a correct choice to improve effectiveness of Armed Forces.

 

[mb444]

when it comes to BAF we need to see where our greatest threat comes from.....clearly India....who has aircraft that is likely not to be embargoed in conflict situation with our enemy..... clearly china....

It is a no brainer situation. We also have well established military relationship with china.... we are second largest customer of their hardware.

whilst it maybe true that china lags behind the west given what we can afford and geopolitics ......china every time....

the likes of US are fair weather friend....china is our neighbour as is India.....lets keep perspective....china is a counterbalance to Indian hegemony.

We need to get Chinese jets in numbers.... beyond that for long range reach we need to go beyond china as they also rely on others for that...

in that sphere there is only Russia even though it has defence pact with India ...we can not afford western long range jets....have experience of Russian jets and have established military relationship....


BAF is extremely underpowered.... it just needs to build up forces with a china-russia mix.....we need to forget western jets....the trouble is not worth it imho.

Taking a longer view....BD needs own technical capability.... it is time for all sector of the military to partner up others like turkey and china in joint venture production.

 

[UKBengali]

when it comes to BAF we need to see where our greatest threat comes from.....clearly India....who has aircraft that is likely not to be embargoed in conflict situation with our enemy..... clearly china....

It is a no brainer situation. We also have well established military relationship with china.... we are second largest customer of their hardware.

whilst it maybe true that china lags behind the west given what we can afford and geopolitics ......china every time....

the likes of US are fair weather friend....china is our neighbour as is India.....lets keep perspective....china is a counterbalance to Indian hegemony.

We need to get Chinese jets in numbers.... beyond that for long range reach we need to go beyond china as they also rely on others for that...

in that sphere there is only Russia even though it has defence pact with India ...we can not afford western long range jets....have experience of Russian jets and have established military relationship....


BAF is extremely underpowered.... it just needs to build up forces with a china-russia mix.....we need to forget western jets....the trouble is not worth it imho.

Taking a longer view....BD needs own technical capability.... it is time for all sector of the military to partner up others like turkey and china in joint venture production.

What do you see as the trouble with Western jets like Gripen?

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Bro, US do not want to miss any chance to make profit and It must be underlined that No state could come close to engineering level They have developed in some fields of fighter aircrafts. In this perspective, They are aware of their capacity so behaving arrogant to costumers who is out of NATO(even with NATO states) If you do not have pressure tools to drive US officials into corner to receive better offer for more capable fighter variants. Otherwise, They will make you pressure to select their fighters without any promising EW suit (lack of MWR, RWR), BVR and long range missile capability. If the size of tender is large enough to attract full attention of aircraft manufacturers, US may agree on giving more capabilities to strenghten their seats. Check Egyptian procurements over US, They are mostly downgraded fighters so Egypt need to diversify their aircraft procurements with fighters from different origin which causes logistic nightmare and extra budgets for training as well. Different fighters can not commucate with eachother. That is also a big defficiency in network centric warfare environment. I believe Those won’t help Bangladesh to challenge with latest generation threats in own region. If US agree on giving latest generation fighters with full sensor and protection package, then It will be perfect for Bangladesh Air Forces.

Besides, Turkey doesn’t have any rights over F-16 fighters. Although Turkiye has a huge infrastructure over F16 fighting falcons, Neither We can produce, nor change any components without getting US approval. It is their own fighter. We are just costumers.

Turkey needs 3-5 years for a fighter aircraft and 10-12 years for 5th generation stealth fighter aircraft to meet the requirements of brother states like Bangladesh in order to declare great percentage freedom from Western sources. Out of aircrafts, There won’t be a problem for land vehicles. Turkiye can provide anything Bangladesh can require from tanks to advanced IFV’s, Armoured wheeler/tracked vehicles...etc

Kaplan-MT is the new generation IFV/Light Tank Turkey has developed for Indonesia under full tech transfer deal.

AV-8 is wheeled APC developed for Malaysia under full tech transfer deal.

In last year, TAI expresses that they were advance discussions with Bangladesh to sell T-129 Atak helicopters. I do not know current statue of negotiations but After Pakistan and Philippines, Selection of Atak for Bangladesh will be a correct choice to improve effectiveness of Armed Forces.

I think you talk too much modest with regard to Turk Defence Industry solutions to brake the hegemony of the West over the Muslim geography.

If we take a look at the current projects and plans along with infrastructural investments; Turkey is actually building tomorrow's doctrine of defence as backbone of any army conventional or asymmetric with cost and strike effective defence industry habitat.

For example, You posted some performance of Atak with national avionics, missiles, sub-systems etc.; however, what you are actually posting is a family of aircrafts such as Atak II, T-625; Hürkuş, Hürjet and 5th gen. figther; or Mechanised land force with smart ammunition and active protection system; Missiles with advanced precision and strike capability; Laser and Electromagnetic weapons; Sea platforms with advanced command/control and defence systems; Unmannded Air, Ground and Sea Vehicles with surveillance, EW and combat capabilities; Training Softwares and Hardwares; Future Soldier Systems; Satellite and Communication systems etc.

 

[cabatli_53]

I think you talk too much modest with regard to Turk Defence Industry solutions to brake the hegemony of the West over the Muslim geography.

If we take a look at the current projects and plans along with infrastructural investments; Turkey is actually building tomorrow's doctrine of defence as backbone of any army conventional or asymmetric with cost and strike effective defence industry habitat.

For example, You posted some performance of Atak with national avionics, missiles, sub-systems etc.; however, what you are actually posting is a family of aircrafts such as Atak II, T-625; Hürkuş, Hürjet and 5th gen. figther; or Mechanised land force with smart ammunition and active protection system; Missiles with advanced precision and strike capability; Laser and Electromagnetic weapons; Sea platforms with advanced command/control and defence systems; Unmannded Air, Ground and Sea Vehicles with surveillance, EW and combat capabilities; Training Softwares and Hardwares; Future Soldier Systems; Satellite and Communication systems etc.

Technological infrastructure and ongoing projects that will provide advancing and promising capabilities to Turkish Armed Forces deserve all praises in terms of breaking foreign dependency but breaking Western hegemony in Muslim geography is not only about How perfect Turkish defence industry is but also the will of those countries. A country like Azerbaijan does not honour Turkish products against Israeli one in many tenders Although Turkish officials visited them many times to achieve something which deserve the nature of “brotherhood” between two state. In this circulation, How can we sure about breaking Western dependency in Muslim geography? Assertive statements always make me happy but Cause of the reason I have told above, It will help us to achieve such a mission in Muslim geography? I don’t suppose so Better to introduce the capabilities of Turkish industry in front of our brothers and let them judge the capabilities to agree on whether they want to be dependent on Western sources or not.

 

[Bilal9]

Bro, US do not want to miss any chance to make profit and It must be underlined that No state could come close to engineering level They have developed in some fields of fighter aircrafts. In this perspective, They are aware of their capacity so behaving arrogant to costumers who is out of NATO(even with NATO states) If you do not have pressure tools to drive US officials into corner to receive better offer for more capable fighter variants. Otherwise, They will make you pressure to select their fighters without any promising EW suit (lack of MWR, RWR), BVR and long range missile capability. If the size of tender is large enough to attract full attention of aircraft manufacturers, US may agree on giving more capabilities to strenghten their seats. Check Egyptian procurements over US, They are mostly downgraded fighters so Egypt need to diversify their aircraft procurements with fighters from different origin which causes logistic nightmare and extra budgets for training as well. Different fighters can not commucate with eachother. That is also a big defficiency in network centric warfare environment. I believe Those won’t help Bangladesh to challenge with latest generation threats in own region. If US agree on giving latest generation fighters with full sensor and protection package, then It will be perfect for Bangladesh Air Forces.

Besides, Turkey doesn’t have any rights over F-16 fighters. Although Turkiye has a huge infrastructure over F16 fighting falcons, Neither We can produce, nor change any components without getting US approval. It is their own fighter. We are just costumers.

Turkey needs 3-5 years for a fighter aircraft and 10-12 years for 5th generation stealth fighter aircraft to meet the requirements of brother states like Bangladesh in order to declare great percentage freedom from Western sources. Out of aircrafts, There won’t be a problem for land vehicles. Turkiye can provide anything Bangladesh can require from tanks to advanced IFV’s, Armoured wheeler/tracked vehicles...etc

Kaplan-MT is the new generation IFV/Light Tank Turkey has developed for Indonesia under full tech transfer deal.

AV-8 is wheeled APC developed for Malaysia under full tech transfer deal.

In last year, TAI expresses that they were advance discussions with Bangladesh to sell T-129 Atak helicopters. I do not know current statue of negotiations but After Pakistan and Philippines, Selection of Atak for Bangladesh will be a correct choice to improve effectiveness of Armed Forces.

Thanks Brother for your detailed post. Kaplan at 35 tonnes may be very appropriate for Bangladesh as local terrain conditions don't suit any Tank/IFV with gross weight over 50 tonnes. We will have some issues with our MBT-2000s in some areas for armor movements, which weighs 45+ tonnes. The locally upgraded Type 59 tanks with brand new turrets (kind of like the Sabra tanks you have) are far lighter and smaller and weigh about the same as the Kaplan.

At some point (within the next five years) we will need a modern wheeled IFV like the PARS AV-8 for local license manufacture (or even the 6X6 version), the BTR-80's we have for IFOR duty are getting very long in the tooth, but will do for now. We have around 600 plus of these things as well as local overhaul/support structure.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Technological infrastructure and ongoing projects that will provide advancing and promising capabilities to Turkish Armed Forces deserve all praises in terms of breaking foreign dependency but breaking Western hegemony in Muslim geography is not only about How perfect Turkish defence industry is but also the will of those countries. A country like Azerbaijan does not honour Turkish products against Israeli one in many tenders Although Turkish officials visited them many times to achieve something which deserve the nature of “brotherhood” between two state. In this circulation, How can we sure about breaking Western dependency in Muslim geography? Assertive statements always make me happy but Cause of the reason I have told above, It will help us to achieve such a mission in Muslim geography? I don’t suppose so Better to introduce the capabilities of Turkish industry in front of our brothers and let them judge the capabilities to agree on whether they want to be dependent on Western sources or not.

How the West has , in the first place, established the hegemony on the Muslim geography can only been explained by the muscle, but how they still keep it can be explained a comprehensive chain of doctrine on the world order that has also been created and owned by the same west; in other words, The brain.

Therefore, How to break it lies in the military, and then how to keep it lies in what you mention partly.

The world order has been challenged by the new players, and these new players need allies just like the current owners of the world order has with some generous stake in the cake(world)... simply follow the foreign military bases.

In short i try to express myself, but i am sure you find answers in them ... like Azerbaijan's choice is because of the muscle, brain or better the both of them at the same time. Given the current situation in/around the country and policies of the ruling government, can you honestly blame them?

 

[Bilal9]

Technological infrastructure and ongoing projects that will provide advancing and promising capabilities to Turkish Armed Forces deserve all praises in terms of breaking foreign dependency but breaking Western hegemony in Muslim geography is not only about How perfect Turkish defence industry is but also the will of those countries. A country like Azerbaijan does not honour Turkish products against Israeli one in many tenders Although Turkish officials visited them many times to achieve something which deserve the nature of “brotherhood” between two state. In this circulation, How can we sure about breaking Western dependency in Muslim geography? Assertive statements always make me happy but Cause of the reason I have told above, It will help us to achieve such a mission in Muslim geography? I don’t suppose so Better to introduce the capabilities of Turkish industry in front of our brothers and let them judge the capabilities to agree on whether they want to be dependent on Western sources or not.

I can tell you that other things being equal, those in power in Bangladesh have a soft corner for Turkey and Indonesia (both moderate Muslim countries), with whom we share traditions of language, culture and food and of course, faith. Both of these countries (and Malaysia as well) are examples to emulate for us in politics, foreign policy as well as Industry and trade.

Everything else being equal, we should always give more preference to Turkish. Malaysian and Indonesian defense products. We have JV's with Malaysia and Indonesia in many defense and transport sectors (our Navy and railways being prime examples). We also have had purchases from OTOKAR already (Cobra), so I don't see KAPLAN not being considered at some point. Granted, China has been a long time defense supplier to us, and we are their second largest defense customer, but we need to diversify sourcing at some point and include friendly countries like Turkey.

We have not forgotten that Turkey was the first country that stood by our side during the Rohingya crisis, and we appreciated that stance, when many of our neighbor countries took the side of Myanmar. These things matter.

I don't honestly believe we will end up buying anything specific from the US. It is not simply a question of choosing weapons or platforms, it is more a strategic question. Does the US Navy want a base here? Do we want to anger the Chinese? These questions need to be answered first.

 

[cabatli_53]

How the West has , in the first place, established the hegemony on the Muslim geography can only been explained by the muscle, but how they still keep it can be explained a comprehensive chain of doctrine on the world order that has also been created and owned by the same west; in other words, The brain.

Therefore, How to break it lies in the military, and then how to keep it lies in what you mention partly.

The world order has been challenged by the new players, and these new players need allies just like the current owners of the world order has with some generous stake in the cake(world)... simply follow the foreign military bases.

In short i try to express myself, but i am sure you find answers in them ... like Azerbaijan's choice is because of the muscle, brain or better the both of them at the same time. Given the current situation in/around the country and policies of the ruling government, can you honestly blame them?

Intentions drive the states to achieve something usefull with sure steps in current World order. If you don’t have an intention to do something, The excuses take action to cover up the agenda. Many stories can be composed about Why Azerbaijan oriented to select the products out of Turkish origin. Be it siding with Power or making alliances with procurements, urgent requirements, Armenian issue...etc. Today, We are just hearing those excuses while a few Turkish members prefer to accuse Turkish industry to justify the hidden agenda of this corrupt decision but It is not that simple (Brain and Muscle) like you said. The deals signed between them are not stop-gap precuations but long term production and assembly facilities which serve to totally meet the requirements of Azerbaijan with connecting a huge market into the same supply chain in following 50 years maybe After eliminating superior Turkish offers in same tenders multiple times. In this aspect, The likely situation of country in/around the borders and urgent requirement excuses do not make any sense for me. Current situation serves a hidden agenda which totally keep Turkey out of this country consciously in terms of defense procurements and this story can not be explained with any brotherhood stories for me.

I can tell you that other things being equal, those in power in Bangladesh have a soft corner for Turkey and Indonesia (both moderate Muslim countries), with whom we share traditions of language, culture and food and of course, faith. Both of these countries (and Malaysia as well) are examples to emulate for us in politics, foreign policy as well as Industry and trade.

Everything else being equal, we should always give more preference to Turkish. Malaysian and Indonesian defense products. We have JV's with Malaysia and Indonesia in many defense and transport sectors (our Navy and railways being prime examples). We also have had purchases from OTOKAR already (Cobra), so I don't see KAPLAN not being considered at some point. Granted, China has been a long time defense supplier to us, and we are their second largest defense customer, but we need to diversify sourcing at some point and include friendly countries like Turkey.

We have not forgotten that Turkey was the first country that stood by our side during the Rohingya crisis, and we appreciated that stance, when many of our neighbor countries took the side of Myanmar. These things matter.

I don't honestly believe we will end up buying anything specific from the US. It is not simply a question of choosing weapons or platforms, it is more a strategic question. Does the US Navy want a base here? Do we want to anger the Chinese? These questions need to be answered first.

Bro, My words are not related with Bangladesh or other brother states. We have some bad experiences in Azerbaijani procurement tenders multiple times so I need to mention about it to back up my moderate stand about West hegemony with a little complaint about them. Otherwise, All states are free to make a correct desicion to select the best for them.

Thanks for your sensitivity.

 

[Nasr]

We have some bad experiences in Azerbaijani procurement tenders multiple times.

Could you please elaborate on this? Who was tendering, which country to Azerbaijan? In what context? Civilian or Military?

 

[Bilal9]

Guys please open a separate thread if you want to discuss off topic items. It is only fair.

 

[mb444]

What do you see as the trouble with Western jets like Gripen?

None in principal....

But western jets comes with political strings...we do not have the ecomic muscle to overcome that kind of binding vis a vis india.

Chinese and russian do not come with such binding, particularly chinese.

Our consideration should be based on worst case scenario. In those circumstances BAF for the foreseeable future should go with chinese jets as i said... with at least a squadron of russian jets....i really do not see any other options...all comes down to what is the best bang on our budget....western platform is not for us until we are much much stronger economically and by that time hopefully we will have developed own capabilities.