US Government vs Congress: Sale of F16s to Pakistan

[Vapnope]

We lack strategic thinking or what? We are guilty of putting our eggs in one basket. First it was US now it is fast becoming China, are we gonna learn something or not?

 

[Bossman]

We lack strategic thinking or what? We are guilty of putting our eggs in one basket. First it was US now it is fast becoming China, are we gonna learn something or not?

Please read a little history of Pakistan foreign policy before posting silly statements.

 

[barbarosa]

The history of Pak US relation is full of up down, it always depend on the need of USA.

 

[Malik Usman]

First foolish act. No foreign minister to set the strategy to not only woo the White House, but Congress. This is not the first time Pakistan made this mistake. If they actually paid attention to what is going on in Capital Hill, they would see this was coming from a mile away, but they were blindsided.

Second foolish act, to admit you have no funds to purchase the planes. Do you know how much of a beggar you sound? And this insistence on pursuing the F-16 even in the face of opposition just gives more leverage to US. Pakistan best bet was just to walk away from the deal. Let US pursue you instead you pursuing them.

You also sound like an empty Drum who is making noise but from inside that is empty....................Why people are so blind or don't have knowledge before to pass comments...........that money is under coalition support fund for the services which Pakistan gave to US and NATO in so called War on Terror...........now by saying that ........even this money for F-16 is a peanut in camel's mouth as compare to the services Pakistan gave to US.

 

[Vapnope]

Please read a little history of Pakistan foreign policy before posting silly statements.

And what history are we talking about? Our foreign policy is the reason we are in a mess right now, it stands witness to what i am saying here.

 

[Djinn]

First foolish act. No foreign minister to set the strategy to not only woo the White House, but Congress. This is not the first time Pakistan made this mistake. If they actually paid attention to what is going on in Capital Hill, they would see this was coming from a mile away, but they were blindsided.

Second foolish act, to admit you have no funds to purchase the planes. Do you know how much of a beggar you sound? And this insistence on pursuing the F-16 even in the face of opposition just gives more leverage to US. Pakistan best bet was just to walk away from the deal. Let US pursue you instead you pursuing them.

Isn't it obvious? Pakistan was only interested in the F-16's because they were dirt cheap. Now that they are not anymore, Pakistan has better options for that price. Secondly unlike India, Pakistan has learned it's lesson for being friends with the US and again has better people to woo than the US congress (This is a job left for the Bharteez to enjoy). If US will give subsidized F-16's, Pakistan will get them, otherwise NO.
It's purely business and the price value always matter the most. By saying 'we are short on funds', is the smart thing to do, when you are bargaining, unless of course you are a snob and you want to pay extra for something just for personal gratification then that is more of an EGO issue . You Bhaarteez can spin anything in any direction to extract solace but fact stays: Pakistan will get some other jet if not subsidized F-16's to give your expensive jets a bloody nose.

 

[IceCold]

First foolish act. No foreign minister to set the strategy to not only woo the White House, but Congress. This is not the first time Pakistan made this mistake. If they actually paid attention to what is going on in Capital Hill, they would see this was coming from a mile away, but they were blindsided.

Second foolish act, to admit you have no funds to purchase the planes. Do you know how much of a beggar you sound? And this insistence on pursuing the F-16 even in the face of opposition just gives more leverage to US. Pakistan best bet was just to walk away from the deal. Let US pursue you instead you pursuing them.

Cant disagree on either one of your points. I stated in another thread that when the 8 F-16s were offered the 1st time, Pakistan instead if lurking to the dangling carrot should have politely said Thank you but No we dont need F16s any more for WOT. This move would have come as a shock and a surprise to the US because uptill now they know that they can dangle the F-16s whenever they want and Pakistanis will come running to grab the opportunity and in return the US gets many concessions. Had we refused the 1st time it would have sent the right message across everyone that Pakistan cannot be lurked by F-16s and this card is but outdated. That would have made the US work for the deal over night instead of Pakistan in an attempt to loose any leverage what so ever over Pakistan. But since we dont have a foreign policy not even a foreign minister and its run by the likes of Nawaz Sharif, no wonder every time US gets the better of US and humiliate us in the process.

 

[araz]

We lack strategic thinking or what? We are guilty of putting our eggs in one basket. First it was US now it is fast becoming China, are we gonna learn something or not?

I don't understand what the fuss is about. We are talking to a representative body which says we are 20 trillion dollars in debt. We cannot afford to spend more money on an ally with a mind of its own.
No one has denied you the 16s(at least yet). What is being expressed is that your wish to use FMF cannot be complied with in this case. Fine.
Your choices are 3.
A. Do without. Buy 2nd hand frames from st elsewhere. US will not have any objection to sell you MLU kits. Or put the money into JFT.
B. Find the money which needs to be arranged and was probably there when you requested only 8 16s.
C. The last and most extreme event move away and look towards a second supplier. This logic is not without its own expenses and problems and you will almost certainly deplete your meagre resources on possibly an unnecessary purchase in the current atmosphere.
In this whole debate a couple of things need to be mentioned.
The world looks at international relations as a marriage of common interests not friendships which last a lifetime. We need to start doing the same and come out of this friend or enemy syndrome.
The USA is looking after its own interests and not yours. To be fair in its position you would do the same and have done so( the recent PA backout from the Saudi Misadventures in Yemen, and desertion of the Taliban Government come to mind).
The only reason you are going for F16s is because they fit your plans and are the most effective tool for your needs. So if this is the case then it is a simple case of reallignment of interests rather than suiting your expectations.
The US is looking at it from a commercial point of view and from that point it does not make any sense to them to supply you with what they consider dual use( ie counter terrorism effort but also for use against an enemy)items especially if they are likely to harm their long term interests.
After all is said and done I am sure the US administration will somehow make it up to you either by providing additional air frames from a third country or other items of use.
So either you are beggars in which case you dont have a choice or a nation with some integrity in which case you should move on and make decisions which are pragmatic and in your favour.
A

Cant disagree on either one of your points. I stated in another thread that when the 8 F-16s were offered the 1st time, Pakistan instead if lurking to the dangling carrot should have politely said Thank you but No we dont need F16s any more for WOT. This move would have come as a shock and a surprise to the US because uptill now they know that they can dangle the F-16s whenever they want and Pakistanis will come running to grab the opportunity and in return the US gets many concessions. Had we refused the 1st time it would have sent the right message across everyone that Pakistan cannot be lurked by F-16s and this card is but outdated. That would have made the US work for the deal over night instead of Pakistan in an attempt to loose any leverage what so ever over Pakistan. But since we dont have a foreign policy not even a foreign minister and its run by the likes of Nawaz Sharif, no wonder every time US gets the better of US and humiliate us in the process.

Icey
It is not Nawaz who has requested the platforms, it is air headquarters. Ganja Shareef can only say whether the coffers are empty or not . So corrupt as he is he is not to be blamed. The Air headquarters has repeatedly said that the 16s are a bonus. If they come fine and if they dont we have the means. We cannot afford another platform at this time and need to wait for theJ31 in 2023-25 era. In the mean while carry on developing the JFT. you can always ramp up production and get 300 planes if you needed to as the platform is yours. The bottom line is that they know you inside and out and no matter how many airs you put on your cards have been on the table far too long for you to act cocky.
A

 

[Jaam92]

Everyone's priority change with the passage of time
We have to admit that great game of English countries "Use and Throw"
We still have the time to ensure the world and these tiny super powers that they cannot do it with us.
USA is still in Afghanistan and they still need us to leave Afghanistan. We should do something which must irritate USA and their NATO.
Time to Move on Pakistan we do not need them to be alive in world, we have option they don't

 

[war&peace]

Pakistan needs to think strategically. As the secretary said these are sovereign decisions. Pakistan should take decision based on its long term interests. Look for a 5th gen aircraft and there is no shortage of money but shortage of courage and will. Just annihilate the corrupt elite. Arrest them, frog all the money out of them and kill them. That will be enough amount to buy a hundreds of Eurofighter, J-31, J20, or Su35. While keep a good relationship with US too but warm up our relations with Russia, Turkey, EU and China. Open as many new avenues as possible and find common grounds with every major nation in the world and make an independent policies. But there is no independence if you are not financially free.
May be its a difficult concept to grasp for people of South Asia, as most of them live with parents for all their lives, but in west at 18 years one starts to get the heat to move out and live independently.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Relation always based on give and take.If one just try to take take (Do more) then obviously status can be locked.

 

[Sipahi]

Actions speak louder then words.

 

[as1mz]

The govt supports it, the Congress doesn't. Pakistan should head to China or Turkey and invest in 5th gen aircrafts.

http://todayinpakistan.com/us-government-sale-f16s-pakistan/

 

[jupiter2007]

The govt supports it, the Congress doesn't. Pakistan should head to China or Turkey and invest in 5th gen aircrafts.

http://todayinpakistan.com/us-government-sale-f16s-pakistan/

Pakistan can still try to get the used F-16s from European countries.

IMHO, wait for the JF-17 block 4 and invest in 5th generation fighter.
Choices are very clear for the 5th gen fighter, 1st option should be investing in Chinese FC-31 program, 2nd option should be Turkey TFX program, and third option should be South Korean/Indonesia KAi KF-X program.

 

[Windjammer]

WASHINGTON: The US State Department has informed Congress that it wants to retain the flexibility that foreign assistance provides, to do business with Pakistan.

“It is critical that the State Department maintains the flexibility to provide assistance for Pakistan that advances US interests,” said a department official when asked how the recent congressional restrictions could affect US-Pakistan relations.

“We seek aid for Pakistan because it’s in our interests; it advances our broader security interests, and meets critical humanitarian and development needs,” the official told Dawn.

The official pointed out that the State Department’s assistance request for fiscal 2017 was down by over 60 per cent from the high point earlier in the decade (2010).

“We think the funding level requested is appropriate and in our interest,” he added.

The US Congress recently stopped the administration from using its foreign military financing (FMF) facility to enable Pakistan to buy eight F-16s. Also, a congressional panel endorsed a draft bill to block $450 million in aid to Pakistan for failing to take action against the Haqqani network.

The restrictions have strained relations between the United States and Pakistan that were getting back to normal after years of tensions. The recent developments also show that Pakistan has not won back the friends it has lost on Capitol Hill since 2011.

Pakistan reacted to the congressional restrictions by pledging to buy aircraft from other sources, apparently China, and rejected the claim that it was allowing militant groups to use its territory for carrying out attacks in Afghanistan.

Policy makers in Washington disagree with Congress’s approach and fear that it would not achieve the desired result of persuading Pakistan to be more cooperative in the war against terrorists.

“As a general matter, the Department of State would oppose conditions on assistance that would limit the president and secretary of state’s ability to provide assistance in the best interests of the United States,” said the State Department official.

The official noted that while Congress had not sought to block the sale, key members had made it clear that they objected to using FMF to support the sale.

“Given the Congressional objections, we have told the Pakistanis that they should put forward national funds for the purchase,” the official said.

When asked what the State Department was doing to deal with the situation caused by the congressional restrictions, he said: “I would prefer to keep the details of our conversations with the Hill and Pakistan on this issue private.”

But “we support the sale, and we will continue to work with Congress. However, we have told the Pakistanis that they should put forward national funds for the purchase, given Congressional objections,” he added.

The official also backed Pakistan’s claim that it needed the F-16s to fight militants and not to use them against India, as some lawmakers suggested in congressional debates.

“The administration continues to support the proposed sale of eight F-16s to Pakistan to assist Pakistan’s counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency operations,” he said.

“Pakistan’s current F-16s have supported these operations to date. These operations reduce the ability of certain militants to use Pakistani territory as a safe haven for terrorism and a base of support for the insurgency in Afghanistan,” he added.

The official pointed out that such operations were “in the interests of Pakistan, the United States, Nato and in the interest of the region more broadly”.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1257224/us-govt-supports-sale-of-f-16s-to-pakistan-official