US Congressional hearing may spell trouble for Pakistan

[Irfan Baloch]

In Pakistan we have a university called 'Quaid e Azam' university and there is a dpt. of strategic studies.

There you can find enough research papers on how Iran, India and Israel launched BLA and were provided safe sanctuaries in Iran.

Iran has his hands full in Baluchistan and many other regional conflicts, allowing leverage to anti Pakistan forces

if your comment is to be believed then Iran is shooting on its own foot by facilitating BLA

because it has Jundullah to deal with and by the way. Americans already talking about carving out Iran, Afghanistan & Pakistan to make grater Balochistan then how does it help the Ayatullahs?

by the way both the BLA and ANP's terror wings (communist Pashtons of Khan Gafar khan) were the brainchild of the KGB, they made these as a response to our support for the Afghan Mujahideen. the red Pashtons gave up militancy and joined the mainstream politics of Pakistan while BLA died out after the demise of Soviets.

after the invasion of Afghanistan by yet another super power, BLA was given life by Indians and Americans for their future strategic plans in this region.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

you are over rating NW operation.
that option is becoming redundant now because now Haqqanis/ Amullah Omar are in talks with the Yanks in Doha and Saudi Arabia.

Pakistan army cant do anymore where the US Drones have been unable to do in North Waziristan.
its not a conventional trench war that the army will need to fight there and neither there will be established HQs that can be attacked.

deploying yet another Brigade or Div in NW will be a waste and drain on resources and a pointless exercise when the peace talks are still going on.

 

[LeGenD]

you are over rating NW operation.

No. The refusal of NW operation actually set the stage for crumbling of ties of Pakistan with the WEST in the first place.

Remember those several high profile visits of US officials to Pakistan for this purpose?

Check some statements from Karzai too with respect to matter of NW.

that option is becoming redundant now because now Haqqanis/ Amullah Omar are in talks with the Yanks in Doha and Saudi Arabia.

Talks with Taliban is an old story.

The official position of USA has been to force the Taliban to the negotiation table by making its leadership realize that Taliban cannot win this war. However, this approach failed because of issues with Pakistan.

ISAF believes that Taliban operates from the NW region. Pakistan refused to conduct any operation in this region. And you can figure out the remaining story.

Pakistan army cant do anymore where the US Drones have been unable to do in North Waziristan.
its not a conventional trench war that the army will need to fight there and neither there will be established HQs that can be attacked.

deploying yet another Brigade or Div in NW will be a waste and drain on resources and a pointless exercise when the peace talks are still going on.

Irfan bhai,

Airpower is important. However, boots on the ground are equally important. Militants in South Waziristan were routed out through combination of both of these military branches.

USA wanted the same for North Waziristan region. For this operation, USA was willing to provide its own airpower to help Pakistani ground troops.

But after the refusal, USA resorted to expand its covert war inside Pakistan against the militants with help of CIA.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Out of curiosity, how many civilians have been killed in ISAF military operations against 'Taliban insurgents fighting for freedom from NATO occupation' compared to the alleged number of people killed in Balochistan by the SF's?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

For this operation, USA was willing to provide its own airpower to help Pakistani ground troops.

If the US really wanted the NW operation that badly, it should have provided the air assets to Pakistan for Pakistan to operate.

Pakistan would have had no control over US commanders, troops and air assets carrying out operations in NW - Pakistan was therefore correct in refusing.

 

[LeGenD]

If the US really wanted the NW operation that badly, it should have provided the air assets to Pakistan for Pakistan to operate.

Pakistan would have had no control over US commanders, troops and air assets carrying out operations in NW - Pakistan was therefore correct in refusing.

Sir,

I believe that we had resources for this operation. US was willing to provide weapons. Kiyani was not willing to conduct this operation.

Just keep in mind that every foreign policy based decision has its ramifications and consequences.

The refusal of NW operation have led to deterioration of ties between USA and Pakistan. Not just USA but the whole of WEST in general. And our enemies are certainly taking advantage of this blunder on our part.

Now that this deterioration is in effect, should we be surprised by anti-Pakistani reactions from USA? No, we shouldn't be.

If Pakistan wants to follow the path of Iran, no problem. However, be prepared to stand on own feet too. Because, educated people inside Pakistan are not willing to eat GRASS after investing so much hard earned money on their education - just because the economy goes in to the gutter as the result of a foreign policy related blunder. Their will be severe civil unrest inside Pakistan under such a scenario.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sir,

I believe that we had resources for this operation. US was willing to provide weapons. Kiyani was not willing to conduct this operation.

I am not aware of any US offer to provide a significantly larger number of Helicopter Gunships, fighter jets or armed drones to Pakistan.

What weapons are you talking about?

 

[HAIDER]

Is it going to be part of plan ?

U.S. to establish consulate in Pakistan's Balochistan not allowed
English.news.cn 2011-08-05 17:52:10 FeedbackPrintRSS

ISLAMABAD, Aug. 5 (Xinhua) -- Pakistan's security agencies and the Foreign Ministry have opposed opening of American consulate to be set up in southwestern Balochistan province over security concerns, reported local Urdu TV channel Dawn on Friday.

According to the report, U.S. ambassador in Islamabad Cameron Munter is making efforts for the opening of the consulate in Balochistan.

Munter visited Quetta, the provincial capital on Thursday, and said Balochistan is very important to the United States.

The U.S. has long been anxious to open consulate in Balochistan, which borders Afghanistan and Iran, but the move has been opposed by Pakistani security agencies and the Foreign Ministry.

The Foreign Ministry has sent its report to the Interior Ministry over reservations and concerns about the U.S. consulate, said Dawn, adding that the security agencies are also not giving the required clearance despite fresh moves by the incumbent U.S. ambassador.

The U.S. had made a request to the Pakistani government to open consulate in Balochistan, arguing that it would oversee development projects in the province.

American media has reported on several occasions that the proposed consulate was likely to have a sizable CIA presence. Apart from espionage worries, the security agencies had also expressed security concerns about the presence of an American diplomatic facility in Balochistan.

Last year, the Pakistani law enforcement agencies had arrested two Pakistani employees of the U.S. consulate general in Karachi while traveling in the port city of Gwader in Balochistan.

The fresh move came just few days after Pakistan imposed travel restrictions over the movement of American diplomats and they are required special permissions to go to other cities.

Two groups of U.S. diplomats were recently sent back from the outside of northwestern city of Peshawar, who had no permission to enter the area.

The U.S. State Department said that negotiations are taking place with Pakistan to resolve the issue.

Pakistan insists that there are no special curbs on the U.S. diplomats, but all diplomats have been given guidelines because of their security.

 

[LeGenD]

I am not aware of any US offer to provide a significantly larger number of Helicopter Gunships, fighter jets or armed drones to Pakistan.

What weapons are you talking about?

Didn't they provide new F-16s? What makes you think that they would not have provided other weapons?

Also, we could divert some resources from the Indian border for this operation.

 

[HAIDER]

I have 2 Pakistani Baluchi Classmates. They say that they want freedom from Pakistan and whenever i call them PAKIS, they say ''call us baluchi not Pakistanis.'' So, the outsider only attacks when the problem is inside. So, do something to help baluchis which could make them pro-Pakistan. Then this outsiders will get silent by themselves.

We all know the issue of Baluchistan, but unfortunately Baluchis youngster need to turn their face toward educational institution. They need to come out from tribal mentality. Punjabi and Pashtun youngster are heading toward progress much more faster then Baluchis and Sindhi youngsters, they need to chase the pace, otherwise they will keep on complaining and lay their burden of social failures on some one else shoulder.

 

[LeGenD]

We all know the issue of Baluchistan, but unfortunately Baluchis youngster need to turn their face toward educational institution. They need to come out from tribal mentality. Punjabi and Pashtun youngster are heading toward progress much more faster then Baluchis and Sindhi youngsters, they need to chase the pace, otherwise they will keep on complaining and lay their burden of social failures on some one else shoulder.

And how would this happen? Don't you think that Balochistan has been the most neglected province of Pakistan?

It is the responsibility of the leadership of the country to address the issues of Balochi people and bring change to that region through development and educational programs.

Wadera-ism should have been routed out long ago in this country.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Didn't they provide new F-16s? What makes you think that they would not have provided other weapons?

The new F-16's were purchased by Pakistan, not given for free - I am unaware of any US offer to provide new F-16's on 'Grant/deferred loan' basis - we certainly had no money to pay for new ones.

And if you go through the various threads on Pakistan's future acquisitions of much needed Helicopter Gunships, the US had indicated that it had no capacity to provide Cobra Gunships until the Marine orders were fulfilled, well into 2013/2014 or so.

So again, if the US really wanted the NW operation conducted that badly, it could have found ways to provide Pakistan air assets on grant/deferred loan basis, but it did not.

Also, we could divert some resources from the Indian border for this operation.

We already have diverted a significant number of resources from the Indian border.

And unless you have an iron-clad guarantee from the Indians locked up in your safe, stating they won't attack Pakistan while our forces are 'diverted', I fail to see why the Military would have left its Eastern Front exposed.

The Indians even refused to mutually relocate heavy artillery 30KM from the LoC!

---------- Post added at 09:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

It is the responsibility of the leadership of the country to address the issues of Balochi people and bring change to that region through development and educational programs.

Isn't it the responsibility of the Balochistan government now, with the devolution of education and the new NFC award?

Oh wait, the Balochistan cabinet comprises almost every single member of the Balochistan Provincial Assembly, so how can they invest in development when all the money is going to Ministerial privileges?

 

[LeGenD]

The new F-16's were purchased by Pakistan, not given for free - I am unaware of any US offer to provide new F-16's on 'Grant/deferred loan' basis - we certainly had no money to pay for new ones.

And if you go through the various threads on Pakistan's future acquisitions of much needed Helicopter Gunships, the US had indicated that it had no capacity to provide Cobra Gunships until the Marine orders were fulfilled, well into 2013/2014 or so.

If Pakistani forces really have secured South Waziristan region, then what is the fuss about resources? Move those heavy assets towards North Waziristan region.

So again, if the US really wanted the NW operation conducted that badly, it could have found ways to provide Pakistan air assets on grant/deferred loan basis, but it did not.

When attitude was NO from the begining, do you think that USA could convince Kiyani through any offer?

We already have diverted a significant number of resources from the Indian border.

Any examples?

And unless you have an iron-clad guarantee from the Indians locked up in your safe, stating they won't attack Pakistan while our forces are 'diverted', I fail to see why the Military would have left its Eastern Front exposed.

The Indians even refused to mutually relocate heavy artillery 30KM from the LoC!

India couldn't do anything. It was all bluff.

And why relocate resources from LOC? Relocate them from regions where their is no dispute.

Isn't it the responsibility of the Balochistan government now, with the devolution of education and the new NFC award?

Oh wait, the Balochistan cabinet comprises almost every single member of the Balochistan Provincial Assembly, so how can they invest in development when all the money is going to Ministerial privileges?

Then what is Federal Government doing? Sleeping, I guess.

The biggest threat to Pakistan is internal corruption.

Foreign powers can take advantage of our internal weaknesses. But this nation does not learns any lesson and only knows how to point fingers at Israel and USA.

Moral of the story: fix your home first and all issues will go away.

 

[Bl[i]tZ]

If Pakistani forces really have secured South Waziristan region, then what is the fuss about resources? Move those heavy assets towards North Waziristan region.

You've to hold the territory after winning it over. No other institution in Pakistan has the capacity to hold the ground. Your local police system is broken

India couldn't do ****. It was all bluff.

If you're Gen Kayani, you've to ask yourself - Yes, it was but would it be in the future ...

Foreign powers can take advantage of our internal weaknesses. But this nation does not learns any lesson and only knows how to point fingers at Israel and USA.

and INDIA! But I'm really glad that India has slipped to an enemy #3 or even lesser.

 

[LeGenD]

You've to hold the territory after winning it over. No other institution in Pakistan has the capacity to hold the ground. Your local police system is broken

Some assets on the ground remain. However, heavy firepower can be moved to next region.

If you're Gen Kayani, you've to ask yourself - Yes, it was but would it be in the future ...

Remember 2002 standoff?

And USA would not have remained silent on this matter either. USA supported Pakistan during 2002 standoff. It would have done the same in later situations.

and INDIA!

India have tendency to work against the interests of Pakistan. This is why I am not considering it.