US blocked transfer of Jordanian F-16s to Pakistan

[illusion8]

PAF fleet is seriously under threat to remain a effective detterant.

USA has utterly ruined that credible detterance with sanctions , and blocks to get spare upgrades and new fighters.

As for Pakistan buying at FULL PRICE for a new block 52 out of their own Pockets usa knows it is not happening

FOR THOSE SAYING USA LOST PAKISTAN ,,, I suggest you look at the F35 order book to 20+ airforces ............yeah you got it its worth $200 billion ....... THATS JUST F35

I do not believe they will lose too mucvh sleep over 8 to 10 f16 FPR RELATIVE pennies in contrast

THIS IS A MASSIVE STRATGIC CHANGE ------ I'm don't think most Pakistanis realise the effect of NO USA backing for PAF and its govt is going to have long term especially in a conflict with india

All usa diplomatic support
Global real time satalite intel
spares and parts
And even special forces advice will be supported and approved to india

I think USA is itching to get INDIA on side

IAF will have to put up with Chinese junk.

PAF can write off F16's from taking on the IAF.

F7's and jf 17's - one who knows what it means something which is "indegeneously made in china" will not take that fleet seriously.

 

[Falcon26]

I recommend watching the following video:

http://www.awaztoday.pk/News-Talk-Shows/160594/-Q-Ahmed-Qureshi-25th-August-2017.aspx

Pakistan-American analyst Nadia Naviwala explains why Pakistan has such a tough time lobbying in the United States. What steps Pakistan needs to take to improve its position in US. Her interview, in English, begins around 14:00.

She’s quite right. Pakistan must utilize the Pakistani—American community more effectively. This is the missing link and the embassy can play an active role if it wants to.

 

[mingle]

She’s quite right. Pakistan must utilize the Pakistani—American community more effectively. This is the missing link and the embassy can play an active role if it wants to.

Pak American r very prominent in American Society. BUT we must do one thing as well don't take Aid plus engage the Jewish American's so that Nexsus of India Israel
hiting us get neutralize that will make India alone .
Remember one thing for isreal point of view Pak is more important for theior National security.

 

[Khadim e Darul Ehsaan]

Seems you have serious comprehension issues, read my post again.....slowly.....35% grounded and not operational is what i said....and do point out where i mentioned the 45% figure.
Our teens have much better record than your Makhis (MKIs)... both in combat and safety.

Lol "makhis" made me laugh and thanks sir for introducing new name "makhis" it will help to counter word junky

 

[Mav3rick]

at $30 million price point F-16 is the best aircraft you can get
try ordering a Rafale or Typhoon or Su-35

Apples and Oranges!

Comparing brand new, state of the art Jets to 30 year old, second hand, obsolete jets is just not fair.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

If people think Pakistani - American can do some thing or they can pull out any magic then they are on very wrong side , USA clearly need India now, there relation with India is very important to them . Why? , sounds simple but very complex situation .
They want India against China, they even use India against Russian block , USA trying to take down Iran with same method they used In Libya and Syria , current Kurdistan movement is here only because of that , they will first take Iran and then May be Turkey , Pakistan refused to paly any part in that because that will hurt Pakistan the most , That's also, Why USA need India to whitemale Pakistan. And don't forget Afghanistan. And even to take down Pakistan in the end they need India , Why will they arm Pakistan?????????????? Against India ?????? People will bring Heli here , let me tell them F-16 and AHZ heli are completely different things(machines).
Our F-16s still have 10 to 15 years life , its time we start replacing our Mirages ASAP , we can look into J-10s or J-11Ds , that will help PAF to counter Number and Tech Gap with IAF and that will also take off some pressure , that purchase will also put some pressure on USA , currently Our JF-17 can not do that.
Look at the American attitude closely , even same Party , Look at 2000 and 2017 , look at the ruling party. Look at 1990s and 2010s again same Party . And then look at there policies.
My dear friends , there is a reason behind almost no checkpost from any Force in Afghainst on there side of PAK-Afghan border, There is a reason behind insurgency in GB area from Afghan side ..........................................................................

 

[mingle]

Its a newer Blk 52 with a bigger external fuel tank.. and a clue from my bro windy tells where that external fuel tank is from.

Israel

 

[Mrc]

What's the fun of being favorite non NATO Allie???

 

[wiseone2]

Apples and Oranges!

Comparing brand new, state of the art Jets to 30 year old, second hand, obsolete jets is just not fair.

Didn't PAF get some F-16 C/D models at $30 million a piece ?

 

[Storm Force]

Pak American r very prominent in American Society. BUT we must do one thing as well don't take Aid plus engage the Jewish American's so that Nexsus of India Israel
hiting us get neutralize that will make India alone .
Remember one thing for isreal point of view Pak is more important for theior National security.

Listen to your post

Is this the same Israel that was ready to bomb your nuclar power station 25 years ago
Or the same nation that rushed artillery shells with 24 hours of Kargil kicking off.
India Israel is about security and business combined . A business that sees Israel defense firms make over $2 billion per year In seriously high tech arms not available to most nations in Asia.

You can try and win lobby but not with current Pakistani reputation and image abroad which is at a all time low. And in contrast modi and shinning india never been higher

 

[jamal18]

move on from f-16 god damn thats not last fighter on earth

True; but with the large investment in F-16 infrastructure, it's the cheapest bang per buck.

 

[Storm Force]

Mastaan Khan

Was correct he pleaded and warned everyone for years that relying on F16 from USA was a serious strategic mistake long term.

He has long argued to obtain 50+ twin engined fighters for PAF .. He has explained clearly that
loiter time
weapons load
bigger radars and jammers

ARE MORE IMPORTANT than RCS and low cost budget driven fighters with limted load fuel and performance.

The PAF looked at the success of F16 via ISRAEL and USA . But these airforces have massive infrastructure real time intel and guaranteed spares and other force multiplers supporting those falcons ie F15 Eagles F18 Hornets GPS satalites and cutting edge HMD and HOBS missles.

More importantly they go to war outnumbering poorly equipped semi illiterate arab air forces.

F16 IN PAF is not the same as F16 in Israel or USA
Your F16 are backed by Thunders Not F15 or F18 .. ie lightweight limited fighters
You don't have guaranteed of spares or maintenance especially in conflict against USA ally India
You don't have advantage of outnumbering your enemy or superior cross the board technology
You don't have advantage of superior tactics or training as IAF trains extensively with USA france RAF and now Israel .

Mastan Khan was correct You should have acquired Rafale TYPHOON or SU35 .. you would have been much better off than sanction prone falcons ........especially if all the rest is thunders only

 

[Signalian]

We have no interest in discussing Indian systems on thus thread- derailment efforts have been cut short


Why would you say that? Specifically on what qualitative basis there is “no match” (not saying that they are equal)

The transfer was blocked as the Indian lobby has been very successful in strangling Pakistani interests in the US house of legislation- right now, Pakistan is an enemy nation to most in congress either by propoganda or by lobbyist donations

Lobbying is one side of the story.

F-16 is a tool to used to penalise Pakistan on any short coming where USA needs, demands and requirements w.r.t Pakistan are not met, be it pursuit of Haqqani network, do-more rhetoric, or any of their US interest.

Lobbying would never be effective if such a tool never existed. there are other factors to consider too:

1. PAF own passion and confidence in F16 and not coming forward with another acquisition.

2. PAF own resolve to acquire funds from Govt or secure lease for a new type of aircraft.

3. Government of Pakistan's weak stance on global image of Pakistan (even in countries where lobbying isn't active currently)

Army and Navy have done the right thing by moving away from US made weapons where possible, especially in the main offensive weapon category like MBT, submarines, Frigates etc.
Then why isn't PAF moving away from US made F16 as it's main offensive weapon.

 

[SQ8]

Lobbying is one side of the story.

F-16 is a tool to used to penalise Pakistan on any short coming where USA needs, demands and requirements w.r.t Pakistan are not met, be it pursuit of Haqqani network, do-more rhetoric, or any of their US interest.

Lobbying would never be effective if such a tool never existed. there are other factors to consider too:

1. PAF own passion and confidence in F16 and not coming forward with another acquisition.

2. PAF own resolve to acquire funds from Govt or secure lease for a new type of aircraft.

3. Government of Pakistan's weak stance on global image of Pakistan (even in countries where lobbying isn't active currently)

Army and Navy have done the right thing by moving away from US made weapons where possible, especially in the main offensive weapon category like MBT, submarines, Frigates etc.
Then why isn't PAF moving away from US made F16 as it's main offensive weapon.

Only the last paragraph matters

To answer that, try calculating the cost of inducting a different weapon system with all the associated training, ecosysem and force integration costs versus something you have been flying for 30 years and know every atom of it

 

[wiseone2]

Lobbying is one side of the story.

F-16 is a tool to used to penalise Pakistan on any short coming where USA needs, demands and requirements w.r.t Pakistan are not met, be it pursuit of Haqqani network, do-more rhetoric, or any of their US interest.

Lobbying would never be effective if such a tool never existed. there are other factors to consider too:

1. PAF own passion and confidence in F16 and not coming forward with another acquisition.

2. PAF own resolve to acquire funds from Govt or secure lease for a new type of aircraft.

3. Government of Pakistan's weak stance on global image of Pakistan (even in countries where lobbying isn't active currently)

Army and Navy have done the right thing by moving away from US made weapons where possible, especially in the main offensive weapon category like MBT, submarines, Frigates etc.
Then why isn't PAF moving away from US made F16 as it's main offensive weapon.

Rafale, Typhoon and Su-35 are expensive. a small force of 50 aircraft costs $5-8 billions.
The entire PAF budget is under $2 billion

The PAF has not moved away from F-16 since everything else is either inferior or expensive