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United Airlines Dragged an Asian American Down Aisle

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Bad example: The person who breaks into your home is not a thief but an invitee to your house.
Say what...??? I am a homeowner. I have yet to encounter a situation where I did not invite someone but he broke into my house and yet he is still considered an invited.
 
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It made headline because of the man's race.

Not his busted face because of UA being a cheap ***?

There is a history of UA overbooking purposefully. While UA's and/or other Airline's policies might mimic FAA rules there will now never be a better time of them having to update in an effort to "re-accommodate".

Bad example: The person who breaks into your home is not a thief but an invitee to your house.

:laughcry:
 
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Unfortunately, UA would argue that the contract allows them the latitude via the phrase:

'Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:'


Yes, they can. What do you know of those four employees ?


Here is what these guys do not understand...

What happened was at the captain's discretion. If the captain felt that four passengers must be removed to make room for four UA employees, he has that authority. You may not like that decision, but once the decision is made, and all attempts to peacably resolve the issue have been exhausted, that authority extends to forcible removal if necessary.

This is the equivalent of arguing with the police because I feel the speeding ticket was unjust. I maybe in the right and the officer maybe in the wrong, but at the moment, the speeding citation was lawful. I can challenge the citation at a later date, but at that moment, any disagreement can be taken by the officer as a threat.
Under what federal rule or in the contract that give the captain absolute power to remove a paid customer on boarded the plane without justification?
 
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Say what...??? I am a homeowner. I have yet to encounter a situation where I did not invite someone but he broke into my house and yet he is still considered an invited.
THat was a counter to his implied example that the guy was a thief. I said he was more of an invitee, so you can't call a police to arrest him at your house unless that invitee does something to cause a threat.
 
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Wrong again.

Bad example: The person who breaks into your home is not a thief but an invitee to your house. Unless he posts a threat to your house, you cannot call the police. And two, he was not your local police but an aviation authority who work with the airline, so airlines do carry responsibility especially their intent to call up the authority was to remove him.

Like I told you, Those carrier contract rule applied ONLY at the gate during boarding and not after he was already boarded.

Again, I have told you, The rule 21 allow the captain to REMOVE PAX FROM AIRCRAFT, not just at gate. It said so in direct wording. Here it is again.

Rule 21 Refusal of Transport
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

  1. Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
  2. Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
  3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
  4. Search of Passenger or Property – Whenever a Passenger refuses to submit to electronic surveillance or to permit search of his/her person or property.
  5. Proof of Identity – Whenever a Passenger refuses on request to produce identification satisfactory to UA or who presents a Ticket to board and whose identification does not match the name on the Ticket. UA shall have the right, but shall not be obligated, to require identification of persons purchasing tickets and/or presenting a ticket(s) for the purpose of boarding the aircraft.
  6. Failure to Pay – Whenever a Passenger has not paid the appropriate fare for a Ticket, Baggage, or applicable service charges for services required for travel, has not paid an outstanding debt or Court judgment, or has not produced satisfactory proof to UA that the Passenger is an authorized non-revenue Passenger or has engaged in a prohibited practice as specified in Rule 6.
  7. Across International Boundaries – Whenever a Passenger is traveling across any international boundary if:
    1. The government required travel documents of such Passenger appear not to be in order according to UA's reasonable belief; or
    2. Such Passenger’s embarkation from, transit through, or entry into any country from, through, or to which such Passenger desires transportation would be unlawful or denied for any reason.
  8. Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
    1. Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
    2. Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
    3. Passengers who assault any employee of UA, including the gate agents and flight crew, or any UA Passenger;
    4. Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
    5. Passengers who are barefoot or not properly clothed;
    6. Passengers who appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs to a degree that the Passenger may endanger the Passenger or another Passenger or members of the crew (other than a qualified individual whose appearance or involuntary behavior may make them appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs);
    7. Passengers wearing or possessing on or about their person concealed or unconcealed deadly or dangerous weapons; provided, however, that UA will carry law enforcement personnel who meet the qualifications and conditions established in 49 C.F.R. §1544.219;
    8. Passengers who are unwilling or unable to follow UA’s policy on smoking or use of other smokeless materials;
    9. Unless they comply with Rule 6 I), Passengers who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, and/or are unable to put the seat’s armrests down when seated and remain seated with the armrest down for the entirety of the flight, and/or passengers who significantly encroach upon the adjoining passenger’s seat;
    10. Passengers who are manacled or in the custody of law enforcement personnel;
    11. Passengers who have resisted or may reasonably be believed to be capable of resisting custodial supervision;
    12. Pregnant Passengers in their ninth month, unless such Passenger provides a doctor’s certificate dated no more than 72 hours prior to departure stating that the doctor has examined and found the Passenger to be physically fit for air travel to and from the destination requested on the date of the flight, and that the estimated date of delivery is after the date of the last flight;
    13. Passengers who are incapable of completing a flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight, as well as Passengers who appear to have symptoms of or have a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight, or who refuse a screening for such disease or condition. (NOTE: UA requires a medical certificate for Passengers who wish to travel under such circumstances. Visit UA’s website, united.com, for more information regarding UA’s requirements for medical certificates);
    14. Passengers who fail to travel with the required safety assistant(s), advance notice and/or other safety requirements pursuant to Rules 14 and 15;
    15. Passengers who do not qualify as acceptable Non-Ambulatory Passengers (see Rule 14);
    16. Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);
    17. Passengers whose physical or mental condition is such that, in United’s sole opinion, they are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an escort. The escort must accompany the escorted passenger at all times; and
    18. Unaccompanied passengers who are both blind and deaf, unless such passenger is able to communicate with representatives of UA by either physical, mechanical, electronic, or other means. Such passenger must inform UA of the method of communication to be used; and
    19. Passengers who are unwilling to follow UA’s policy that prohibits voice calls after the aircraft doors have closed, while taxiing in preparation for takeoff, or while airborne.
  9. Any Passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, consents and acknowledges that he or she shall reimburse UA for any such loss, damage or expense. UA has the right to refuse transport, on a permanent basis, to any passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, or who has been disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent. In addition, the activities enumerated in H) 1) through 8) shall constitute a material breach of contract, for which UA shall be excused from performing its obligations under this contract.
  10. UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A). As an express precondition to issuance of any refund, UA shall not be responsible for damages of any kind whatsoever. The passenger’s sole and exclusive remedy shall be Rule 27 A).

And about the example, so if you invite a thief in, then whatever he/she has done to you does not count then?

The law is about malice and intention, it does not matter if he or she have been invited, paid or requested.

I sell my computer via E-bay, and I have the buyer pick up the computer at my home, I invited him in to my home to pick up my computer, he then rob me, and I call the police, and you are saying since I invited him in, I would need to be responsible for the guess? LOL what kind of logic is that?

Any no, the reason I mention Federal Land is because all duty of care have to be provided by the government, not individual or a company. I don't know where you get the "he was not your local police but an aviation authority who work with the airline, so airlines do carry responsibility especially their intent to call up the authority was to remove him."

Local Police was not employed by the Airlines, at best, you can associated the local police to the airport management authority, which is Chicago Department of Aviation, or the Chicago Government. It have nothing to do with UA
 
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THat was a counter to his implied example that the guy was a thief. I said he was more of an invitee, so you can't call a police to arrest him at your house unless that invitee does something to cause a threat.

SO consider this,

I sell my computer via e-bay, I have asked the buyer to come to my place and pick up the computer, I invited him in and he rob me blind, I called the police, and the police come into my place and beat the crap out of the person, can that person sue me for "Inviting him in" as a result of Police being able to assault him?

LOL. My wife actually laugh at this comment and swede never laugh.
 
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Again, I have told you, The rule 21 allow the captain to REMOVE PAX FROM AIRCRAFT, not just at gate. It said so in direct wording. Here it is again.

Rule 21 Refusal of Transport
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

  1. Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
  2. Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
  3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
  4. Search of Passenger or Property – Whenever a Passenger refuses to submit to electronic surveillance or to permit search of his/her person or property.
  5. Proof of Identity – Whenever a Passenger refuses on request to produce identification satisfactory to UA or who presents a Ticket to board and whose identification does not match the name on the Ticket. UA shall have the right, but shall not be obligated, to require identification of persons purchasing tickets and/or presenting a ticket(s) for the purpose of boarding the aircraft.
  6. Failure to Pay – Whenever a Passenger has not paid the appropriate fare for a Ticket, Baggage, or applicable service charges for services required for travel, has not paid an outstanding debt or Court judgment, or has not produced satisfactory proof to UA that the Passenger is an authorized non-revenue Passenger or has engaged in a prohibited practice as specified in Rule 6.
  7. Across International Boundaries – Whenever a Passenger is traveling across any international boundary if:
    1. The government required travel documents of such Passenger appear not to be in order according to UA's reasonable belief; or
    2. Such Passenger’s embarkation from, transit through, or entry into any country from, through, or to which such Passenger desires transportation would be unlawful or denied for any reason.
  8. Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
    1. Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
    2. Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
    3. Passengers who assault any employee of UA, including the gate agents and flight crew, or any UA Passenger;
    4. Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
    5. Passengers who are barefoot or not properly clothed;
    6. Passengers who appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs to a degree that the Passenger may endanger the Passenger or another Passenger or members of the crew (other than a qualified individual whose appearance or involuntary behavior may make them appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs);
    7. Passengers wearing or possessing on or about their person concealed or unconcealed deadly or dangerous weapons; provided, however, that UA will carry law enforcement personnel who meet the qualifications and conditions established in 49 C.F.R. §1544.219;
    8. Passengers who are unwilling or unable to follow UA’s policy on smoking or use of other smokeless materials;
    9. Unless they comply with Rule 6 I), Passengers who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, and/or are unable to put the seat’s armrests down when seated and remain seated with the armrest down for the entirety of the flight, and/or passengers who significantly encroach upon the adjoining passenger’s seat;
    10. Passengers who are manacled or in the custody of law enforcement personnel;
    11. Passengers who have resisted or may reasonably be believed to be capable of resisting custodial supervision;
    12. Pregnant Passengers in their ninth month, unless such Passenger provides a doctor’s certificate dated no more than 72 hours prior to departure stating that the doctor has examined and found the Passenger to be physically fit for air travel to and from the destination requested on the date of the flight, and that the estimated date of delivery is after the date of the last flight;
    13. Passengers who are incapable of completing a flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight, as well as Passengers who appear to have symptoms of or have a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight, or who refuse a screening for such disease or condition. (NOTE: UA requires a medical certificate for Passengers who wish to travel under such circumstances. Visit UA’s website, united.com, for more information regarding UA’s requirements for medical certificates);
    14. Passengers who fail to travel with the required safety assistant(s), advance notice and/or other safety requirements pursuant to Rules 14 and 15;
    15. Passengers who do not qualify as acceptable Non-Ambulatory Passengers (see Rule 14);
    16. Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);
    17. Passengers whose physical or mental condition is such that, in United’s sole opinion, they are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an escort. The escort must accompany the escorted passenger at all times; and
    18. Unaccompanied passengers who are both blind and deaf, unless such passenger is able to communicate with representatives of UA by either physical, mechanical, electronic, or other means. Such passenger must inform UA of the method of communication to be used; and
    19. Passengers who are unwilling to follow UA’s policy that prohibits voice calls after the aircraft doors have closed, while taxiing in preparation for takeoff, or while airborne.
  9. Any Passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, consents and acknowledges that he or she shall reimburse UA for any such loss, damage or expense. UA has the right to refuse transport, on a permanent basis, to any passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, or who has been disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent. In addition, the activities enumerated in H) 1) through 8) shall constitute a material breach of contract, for which UA shall be excused from performing its obligations under this contract.
  10. UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A). As an express precondition to issuance of any refund, UA shall not be responsible for damages of any kind whatsoever. The passenger’s sole and exclusive remedy shall be Rule 27 A).

And about the example, so if you invite a thief in, then whatever he/she has done to you does not count then?

The law is about malice and intention, it does not matter if he or she have been invited, paid or requested.

I sell my computer via E-bay, and I have the buyer pick up the computer at my home, I invited him in to my home to pick up my computer, he then rob me, and I call the police, and you are saying since I invited him in, I would need to be responsible for the guess? LOL what kind of logic is that?
Like I said, this is not a case of who has more authority in this case but a matter of contract dispute. The court will only intrepet what is written in the carrier contract. Also I don't remember in any news that say the captain pilot demand he needs to be remove. It was demand by the flight staff attdentdant.

Your example adds a faulty twist to it. What if that buyer comes to your house, DIDN"T ROB YOU, and you call a security and he hurts that buyer, who do you think is responsible?
 
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Like I said, this is not a case of who has more authority in this case but a matter of contract dispute.
No, it is not.

Even before taxi, the captain has the final say in everything, from passenger manifest to aircraft status. There would have to be something absurd like the wing is on fire and the captain said the aircraft is fit to fly in order for his authority to be legally undermined by someone else.

But in this case, if the captain said so-and-so passenger must be removed, his authority is LAWFUL.
 
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No, it is not.

Even before taxi, the captain has the final say in everything, from passenger manifest to aircraft status. There would have to be something absurd like the wing is on fire and the captain said the aircraft is fit to fly in order for his authority to be legally undermined by someone else.

But in this case, if the captain said so-and-so passenger must be removed, his authority is LAWFUL.
Which news that said the captain demands he was to be remove?
 
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News ? What are you talking about ?
The news or the fact here is the crew member, in this case, I interpret as the flight attendant who demanded that he leave under the involuntary selection. The captain did NOT came out to demand to him to leave. But you said that the captain did and that was questionable.

Like I said, beside arguing on the ground of a contract dispute between consumer right vs UA carrier rights, he can sue on the ground of UA breaking standard protocol in regard to the selection process. This must be done in written when he was involuntary selected. From the news, no one give him any written notice. Even the department of transportation and make this clear...

The U.S. Department of Transportation states that each airline must "give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't."
 
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WHAT A SHOCKER...!!!

Indeed.

Like I said, this is not a case of who has more authority in this case but a matter of contract dispute. The court will only intrepet what is written in the carrier contract. Also I don't remember in any news that say the captain pilot demand he needs to be remove. It was demand by the flight staff attdentdant.

Dude, FLIGHT ATTENTANT IS PART OF THE FLIGHT CREW.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircrew

The pilot will not come out and ask you to leave, he/she has job to do in the cockpit before take off, it always the FA or Purser asking this question.

Your example adds a faulty twist to it. What if that buyer comes to your house, DIDN"T ROB YOU, and you call a security and he hurts that buyer, who do you think is responsible?

If people did not rob you, you think the police would come if you call the police?? I am imagining the call...

Police Operator : 911 What's your emergency?
Me : I have invite someone over and he IS NOT ROBBING ME.
Police Operator : Okay, Officer have been dispatched and they are with you shortly

LOL......

Really, I cannot stop laughing..
 
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Also I don't remember in any news that say the captain pilot demand he needs to be remove. It was demand by the flight staff attdentdant.
This is incredible. The flight attendant took orders from the captain.

basic research is beyond your capability...

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/10/news/united-overbooking-policy/
But in the case of the United flight, four crew members needed to board the United flight, operated by regional partner Republic Airlines, in order to work another flight in Louisville the following day or else that flight would be canceled, airline spokeswoman Maddie King said Monday.
The four UA employees were actually FLIGHT CREW. They were needed in order to work another aircraft in an associated airline. This is not a case where the captain wanted to give favorable treatment to his friends and/or family. These four people were actually critical to the NORMAL operation of an associated airline.

Whether UA is wrong or not in trying to get these four flight crew members on board is for a different discussion, but the indisputable fact here is that based upon these needs, the captain felt these four flight crew members have higher priority than four passengers, hence his order is LAWFUL.

Which part of LAWFUL is too difficult for you to understand ?

The pilot will not come out and ask you to leave, he/she has job to do in the cockpit before take off, it always the FA or Purser asking this question.
I cannot tell if the guy is ignorant of the concept 'chain of command' or he is being deliberately obtuse.
 
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http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2086812/petition-calling-investigation-airlines-removal-passenger-garners

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100,000 signatures goal reached on petition calling for investigation into airline’s removal of passenger

PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 12 April, 2017, 12:39am
UPDATED : Wednesday, 12 April, 2017, 12:01pm


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/uniteds-stock-is-set-to-fall-5-and-wipe-1-billion-off-the-airlines-market-cap-2017-04-11

United’s stock falls 1.1%, wipes out $255 million off the airline’s market cap

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By Victor Reklaitis
Published: Apr 12, 2017 3:03 a.m. ET


COMMENTS: 17
 
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