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Unemployment Rate Highest In 45 Years, Reveals Stalled Report: 10 Points

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Except there is a small difference here between China and India:

Western economists have every motivations and incentives to defame China, as China challenges the very core of their value system since their great, great grandpa, but they have none against India.

You need me to post news clippings of those high-thinking, jobless philosophers (mostly in London, though a few in New York) that wrote India will break up into tiny pieces soon after its independence....which continued well into the 50s and 60s till we ended up "breaking up" their preferred "stable-religion" entity in the region. Its actually one of the few things I give our one Iron lady PM much credit for...shattering that narrative.

I am sure the basic legacy of that still continues in various elite circles to this day. It sears very much in many of the "western economists"....its not only China my friend. I could point you to the fear mongering they did with occupied/dominated/westernised Japan in say the 70s and 80s. India is much much more foreign entity to them than that.


It was pretty silly comment....given the stuff I have been talking about in this thread to begin with (transience, underemployment etc). He would not be necessarily wrong when it comes to more developed country though.

A lot of the replies to him are even worse though lol. The lady especially doesn't seem to really know how LFPR is calculated (specifically the definitions in use with NSSO compared to ILO)....and why its another pretty rubbish stat when it comes to India in first place (ILO had a good paper more broadly on the nuances here, like productivity and marginal propensity I will have to dig up). Neither am I sure where she got her numbers from (something NSSO I assume?), given this is what ILOSTAT has (and you can see part of the reason I call it a rubbish stat when it comes to India):

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.ZS?locations=IN

She seems fair bit more smart than those two idiot guys responding...with zero inkling of what unemployment is (as basic definition). God I hate twitter.
 
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It was pretty silly comment....given the stuff I have been talking about in this thread to begin with (transience, underemployment etc). He would not be necessarily wrong when it comes to more developed country though.

A lot of the replies to him are even worse though lol. The lady especially doesn't seem to really know how LFPR is calculated (specifically the definitions in use with NSSO compared to ILO)....and why its another pretty rubbish stat when it comes to India in first place (ILO had a good paper more broadly on the nuances here, like productivity and marginal propensity I will have to dig up). Neither am I sure where she got her numbers from (something NSSO I assume?), given this is what ILOSTAT has (and you can see part of the reason I call it a rubbish stat when it comes to India):

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.ZS?locations=IN

Mate if all the stats in India are rubbish then whats the point of having them . IMO I agree stats are inaccurate but they give a GENERAL IDEA which is in right direction.
 
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Are you sure ?
99% note returned .
Exactly one year after demonitisation there was a news clip came in our manorama news channel.
A bank official and his network trying to change their old notes .
The guy was covered .As per his informatio .got through underground network in Kerala around 50000 crore of old currency is safe in different family homes .

We have a reason to believe that .
Before demonitisation there was this hundred of real estate agents looking for
Land deals and they were able to give 5 lacs instead of 2 in hard cash .For common man 5 cent of land for homes was unthinkable .

Now land values stabilised and no more luxury construction .
I wondrr what happened,If this was real cash there was no such issue but only now why ?
Either RBI was wrong or parallel economy was huge .
And AFAIK honest businessmen dont have any issue



Ok what do you know about Sabarimala issue?
Enough.
 
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Mate if all the stats in India are rubbish then whats the point of having them . IMO I agree stats are inaccurate but they give a GENERAL IDEA which is in right direction.

Please bear with my fluid physics analogy as much as you can (It was something of a first love for me in college, one I can never forget...and somewhat highly relevant too given a fluid is a macro-entity of many much more individual constituents and the forces that govern them):

All "stats" are not the same rubbish. Rather they are different levels of rubbish (and have to be qualified, sorted as to which ones are less toxic to play around in)...some even stop being rubbish all together if certain criteria can be met. If you go to a landfill, you can sometimes find stuff that should never have been thrown away for example and are worth huge amounts of value still etc....but again you need a criteria to go about finding such things.

I for one very much find the ones specified by the GDDS (IMF standards) to be fairly credible because they are quite upstream (laminar) data that is highly standardised (and cross-verified)....i.e the good relevant balance of enough distance from the source introduction (which is hidden from us and we want to measure in some way)... but not too far down with data disturbances/entropy effects.

Downstream (turbulent, disturbed) data has some level of signal loss (no longer laminar flow). Also streams that are not even that developed and broad do not have the requisite developed flow to sample effectively in first place (the signal just was not good and coherent enough to begin with)....so it would be foolish to compare apples to apples with those that have developed flow and much higher SNR. This would be why comparing unemployment data of India is silly compared to unemployment data of say France, UK, US, Japan etc.

This is why I say the data streams have to be broadened (before our dippy stick strategy to measure elements of the flow becomes sufficiently relevant and broadly standardised and comparable with the original concept/reason of measuring it)....but in many ways that needs the source flow (economy) to also broaden much more. Something of a catch 22 situation....which is why we have to debate and discuss which stats are most relevant to India's particular stage of development right now and what are the best priorities for measuring and debating on. Its broadly the more simple, directly sampled stuff that India is already big/coherent enough on right now...to measure and standardise with others and for policy goals. The more indirect and micro-derived level you go....the worse the signal loss and thus relevance. They will broaden and gain relevance down the road....its not a case of India is a country that should focus on every statistic possible....we must be choosy....we are growing the cake still....rather than deliberating on the icing and presentation and number of candles to put on it and what our next cake should be like etc.

This applies to every country/macro-entity in the world.

@VCheng @GeraltofRivia @Chak Bamu @Oscar @Jungibaaz @RescueRanger @farhan_9909 @That Guy @Indus Pakistan @Joe Shearer @waz @Arsalan @WAJsal
 
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You need me to post news clippings of those high-thinking, jobless philosophers (mostly in London, though a few in New York) that wrote India will break up into tiny pieces soon after its independence....which continued well into the 50s and 60s till we ended up "breaking up" their preferred "stable-religion" entity in the region. Its actually one of the few things I give our one Iron lady PM much credit for...shattering that narrative.

I am sure the basic legacy of that still continues in various elite circles to this day. It sears very much in many of the "western economists"....its not only China my friend. I could point you to the fear mongering they did with occupied/dominated/westernised Japan in say the 70s and 80s. India is much much more foreign entity to them than that.

I am sure there were some colonial hang-overs in the west in those early days, but after that, India has been the darling of both Free World and Iron Curtain, and never had to go through the scrutiny that China was subjected to. Any bad news from India either got ignored or you got a slap on the wrest. China wasn't so lucky.

Fast forward to 21st century, against the backdrop of China's fast track development, the main stream West economists have been firmly on the side of India, they constantly churn out reports and predictions to put India in positive light, and they even come up with terms like "slow and steady" or "demographic dividend" to comfort and cheer Indians up. Many Indians buy into their theories because they sound good. They believe India's lagging behind China was due to its economy opening up 13 years later than China. Recently some people pointed out the main reason was the poor quality of education, which I believe we had some discussion 3 years ago. I think India's problems are much deeper than that, but let's just leave it.

On topic, if an economy is growing at the annual rate of 7-8%, but employment growth is stagnate, something doesn't seem right.
 
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I am sure there were some colonial hang-overs in the west in those early days, but after that, India has been the darling of both Free World and Iron Curtain, and never had to go through the scrutiny that China was subjected to. Any bad news from India either got ignored or you got a slap on the wrest. China wasn't so lucky.

Fast forward to 21st century, against the backdrop of China's fast track development, the main stream West economists have been firmly on the side of India, they constantly churn out reports and predictions to put India in positive light, and they even come up with terms like "slow and steady" or "demographic dividend" to comfort and cheer Indians up. Many Indians buy into their theories because they sound good. They believe India's lagging behind China was due to its economy opening up 13 years later than China. Recently some people pointed out the main reason was the poor quality of education, which I believe we had some discussion 3 years ago. I think India's problems are much deeper than that, but let's just leave it.

On topic, if an economy is growing at the annual rate of 7-8%, but employment growth is stagnate, something doesn't seem right.
Exactly my point, we are the product of constant Western bashing, they fck us, we improve. It only made us better and stronger, lest we get complacent. Who says we don't have a free media, the western media is our free media, daily scrutiny. Otoh they don't give a damn about India, Modi can do any stupid thing, they would say it's the democratic way of doing things. If it was China, we would be on the headlines. As my mum always say, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

India lagging behind is a cultural thing, they are not result driven People, they don't solve problems. They boast and override the problem with excuses. Then if it gets serious they blame someone. In China, we want to see results, we are hungry we overthrew the KMT,only Deng saved CCP, else there will be another revolution. Indians like to live in denial, they accept things as it is, it's a Hindu thing. That's why even with so much sifdesuff, they still can't start a revolution.

The Indian mouth. They can twist an iron bar just by talking. People looking for jobs doesn't indicate unemployment, it means there are jobs that's why they are looking for it. This is the Indian mind, they create excuse for everything. And you wonder why their country is a shithole.
 
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Please bear with my fluid physics analogy as much as you can (It was something of a first love for me in college, one I can never forget...and somewhat highly relevant too given a fluid is a macro-entity of many much more individual constituents and the forces that govern them):

All "stats" are not the same rubbish. Rather they are different levels of rubbish (and have to be qualified, sorted as to which ones are less toxic to play around in)...some even stop being rubbish all together if certain criteria can be met. If you go to a landfill, you can sometimes find stuff that should never have been thrown away for example and are worth huge amounts of value still etc....but again you need a criteria to go about finding such things.

I for one very much find the ones specified by the GDDS (IMF standards) to be fairly credible because they are quite upstream (laminar) data that is highly standardised (and cross-verified)....i.e the good relevant balance of enough distance from the source introduction (which is hidden from us and we want to measure in some way)... but not too far down with data disturbances/entropy effects.

Downstream (turbulent, disturbed) data has some level of signal loss (no longer laminar flow). Also streams that are not even that developed and broad do not have the requisite developed flow to sample effectively in first place (the signal just was not good and coherent enough to begin with)....so it would be foolish to compare apples to apples with those that have developed flow and much higher SNR. This would be why comparing unemployment data of India is silly compared to unemployment data of say France, UK, US, Japan etc.

This is why I say the data streams have to be broadened (before our dippy stick strategy to measure elements of the flow becomes sufficiently relevant and broadly standardised and comparable with the original concept/reason of measuring it)....but in many ways that needs the source flow (economy) to also broaden much more. Something of a catch 22 situation....which is why we have to debate and discuss which stats are most relevant to India's particular stage of development right now and what are the best priorities for measuring and debating on. Its broadly the more simple, directly sampled stuff that India is already big/coherent enough on right now...to measure and standardise with others and for policy goals. The more indirect and micro-derived level you go....the worse the signal loss and thus relevance. They will broaden and gain relevance down the road....its not a case of India is a country that should focus on every statistic possible....we must be choosy....we are growing the cake still....rather than deliberating on the icing and presentation and number of candles to put on it and what our next cake should be like etc.

This applies to every country/macro-entity in the world.

@VCheng @GeraltofRivia @Chak Bamu @Oscar @Jungibaaz @RescueRanger @farhan_9909 @That Guy @Indus Pakistan @Joe Shearer @waz @Arsalan @WAJsal

While this is a brilliant piece of popular science writing, and makes the idea of national statistical data easy to comprehend, it also misses engaging with the fundamentals of employment statistics in India. Here we are dealing with arithmetic: the number of apples gathered and counted in our collection baskets vs. the number on an average per apple tree, with the difference forming the number unemployed.

Specifically because Indian employment in the organised sector is so limited, it is easy to enumerate: the armed forces, the Railways, the PSUs, which are far more effective at gathering statistics than at making planes, earth movers or wireless sets (to name the products of the three that form the units under Ministry of Defence Production), two or three of the biggest private sector segments (the largest in recent years being software services, employing between 150,000 to 300,000 a year) and we're done. That leaves the informal, or the unorganised sector, and there, too, it isn't punishingly hard to estimate the number of shop assistants (guess how the number of shops is identified), drivers of private transport vehicles, and casual labourers working under contractors. These can be measured in very broad brush strokes, disturbingly broad compared to the estimation techniques available in better organised economies, but there are such brush strokes.

The fundamentals are not difficult; I've been dealing with these for the last five years or more. The average number coming into the Indian job market is 13 million a year. The number in the organised sector is half a million; the unorganised sector takes up nearly ten times more, 4.5 million. It doesn't take too many sheets of paper or too many pencils to estimate the balance, the jobless, given that we already have pretty good estimates of the population of our major urban agglomerations, and of the number of families in them, the sizes of the families and the employed members in these. Simply a matter of offsetting these from the population growth per year. The saving grace is that our National Sample Surveys are backed up, or rather, corroborated by our Census figures.

Any way that we cut these, and slice and dice them, the figures make grim reading. There has been no impact on unemployment during the NDA; the key breakaway element that swept it to power in the last General Elections, the urban yuppie descended from new entrants into cities or large towns, and trained to this side of literacy, just sufficiently to be able to handle tele-calling and other call centre jobs, hasn't got to the pot of gold promised in the election manifestos.

Lower down, throughout the unorganised sector, there is havoc. Most of the damage was done by demonetisation. You mentioned the increased propensity to file returns, therefore, the broadening of the tax net, and the broad measurement of improvement in digitalisation; however, the increase appears to be very close to the statistical increase of previous years, leading to rather baffling conclusions: it didn't matter whether there was a compulsion to file returns or not; people generally joined the ranks of tax payers at the same rate every year.

That leaves us with not very much of the balm of Gilead to spread over our lacerated limbs. But we digress.

We had an optional paper on Econometrics in our second year. We learnt then that the forming of estimates of certain factors was better done through estimates than omitted. Here, too, the same situation applies; it is better to estimate and chalk in some figures than to omit them altogether. And here, too, there is a lesson for the amateur at national income statistics: it is better to apply a range to every data count than to risk a spot estimate. While it is unfortunately true that the outcome is of an increasing degree of complexity, this is the way to ensure that there is a reduction of uncertainty of a measure.

My kaamwali, who is from the unorganised sector, is due - overdue! - to make an appearance, so I must leave behind this note, a Russian peasant to be thrown to the wolves, especially the lupine Nilgiri, and say a brief prayer for it, and move on to emptying the rubbish bucket.
 
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The Indian mouth.T They can twist an iron bar just by talking. People looking for jobs doesn't indicate unemployment, it means there are jobs that's why they are looking for it. his is the Indian mind, they create excuse for everything. And you wonder why their country is a shithole.


Stop quoting my post and talking shit chinaman .
 
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The west has been propping up India's "shining world biggest democracy" for decades, they created glorious growth numbers on paper, but nothing actually happens on the ground.
 
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Exactly my point, we are the product of constant Western bashing, they fck us, we improve. It only made us better and stronger, lest we get complacent. Who says we don't have a free media, the western media is our free media, daily scrutiny. Otoh they don't give a damn about India, Modi can do any stupid thing, they would say it's the democratic way of doing things. If it was China, we would be on the headlines. As my mum always say, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

India lagging behind is a cultural thing, they are not result driven People, they don't solve problems. They boast and override the problem with excuses. Then if it gets serious they blame someone. In China, we want to see results, we are hungry we overthrew the KMT,only Deng saved CCP, else there will be another revolution. Indians like to live in denial, they accept things as it is, it's a Hindu thing. That's why even with so much sifdesuff, they still can't start a revolution.

Very rarely do we get a problem enunciated and immediately illustrated. It looks like we will be better and stronger under the constant Chinese fanboy bashing.


The Indian mouth. They can twist an iron bar just by talking. People looking for jobs doesn't indicate unemployment, it means there are jobs that's why they are looking for it. This is the Indian mind, they create excuse for everything. And you wonder why their country is a shithole.

What a contrast to the strong silent Chinese. How I wish we had a few of those on PDF instead of the present unrepresentative bunch, afflicted as they are with verbal diarrhoea. Talk of twisting an iron bar just by talking.

I am sure there were some colonial hang-overs in the west in those early days, but after that, India has been the darling of both Free World and Iron Curtain, and never had to go through the scrutiny that China was subjected to. Any bad news from India either got ignored or you got a slap on the wrest. China wasn't so lucky.

Fast forward to 21st century, against the backdrop of China's fast track development, the main stream West economists have been firmly on the side of India, they constantly churn out reports and predictions to put India in positive light, and they even come up with terms like "slow and steady" or "demographic dividend" to comfort and cheer Indians up. Many Indians buy into their theories because they sound good. They believe India's lagging behind China was due to its economy opening up 13 years later than China. Recently some people pointed out the main reason was the poor quality of education, which I believe we had some discussion 3 years ago. I think India's problems are much deeper than that, but let's just leave it.

On topic, if an economy is growing at the annual rate of 7-8%, but employment growth is stagnate, something doesn't seem right.

Think.

Hint: what if significant numbers of Indians are employed abroad?
 
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All "stats" are not the same rubbish. Rather they are different levels of rubbish (and have to be qualified, sorted as to which ones are less toxic to play around in)...some even stop being rubbish all together if certain criteria can be met. If you go to a landfill, you can sometimes find stuff that should never have been thrown away for example and are worth huge amounts of value still etc....but again you need a criteria to go about finding such things.

Or, as Mark Twain said, "there are lies, damned lies and statistics". :D

In my opinion, there are two ways to use statistics. One is to look at all the available data and try to decipher what they mean in context. The other way is to make up one's mind first and then go looking only for those data that support the preconceived conclusion. The former is hard to do correctly; the latter is the one used almost exclusively on PDF.
 
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How many people were born into poverty every year? The number is not impressive at all comparing to the so called miraculous growth rate.

It is . You just need to take your Indophobic glasses off . As of last year India is not the country with with largest number of poor and in next few years poverty rates in India will fall to single digits .

India halved the poverty rates in this decade and next it will be even more than that ( percentage wise )
 
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