Umayyad invasion of Sindh and the arrival of Islam

[Rusty]

Lot of sh*t flying around in this thread and that to on religion the opium of masses.
I feel more peaceful as an atheist than as a person following some religion.

Spoken like a true atheist, belligerently giving your opinion even when no one asked

Islam did spread in India because of sufi saints who preached peaceful coexistence with Hindus.It is only radicals in both country who like to peddle there own theory. Pakistanis are taught that they ruled the weak Hindus but these revisionist forget that before Brits turned the whole of Pakistan and parts of India was under Sikh empire and powerful Maratha empire in south.

They also forget that Mughals would employ Hindu Rajput's and even Maratha's had a large contigent of Muslim among it forces.

Indian history revisionist will say that all the conversion took place by force when infact most of it was done by the Sufi's who preached tolerance among masses.

Agree with most of what you said.

I personally detest for the level of hatred that religion has created if there is really a God then he is not God but the Devil himself who makes man to kill himself in the name of religion. I can understand writing this post will have no impact on you folks, but kindly understand this there is no belief greater than humanity.
Respect each other's belief only time will tell if people will burn in hell or die senselessly for a figment of human imagination.

I'm sorry but you cannot blame both sides on this one. Just look at the posts. It is decidedly one side attack by Indians on our faith. All the replies by Muslims have been defensive.

The Indians have an innate hate for Muslims and they feel they have a right to be belligerent and obnoxious about it. No posts here by any Pakistani members have mocked, questioned or belittled Hinduism/Sikhism/any other religion.

the evidence speaks for itself.

A Muslim link - Sahih Bukhari : Book of "Call to Prayer"

Text is identical.

You forgot to answer the rest of my posts.

but it's ok, I know it's hard to argue with truth.
And you also never answered my post #380

 

[KS]

Islam did spread in India because of sufi saints who preached peaceful coexistence with Hindus.It is only radicals in both country who like to peddle there own theory. [......]

Indian history revisionist will say that all the conversion took place by force when infact most of it was done by the Sufi's who preached tolerance among masses.

"Sufis" who came in the caravans of Ghazis like Ghaznavi, Ghori etc. A precursor to the famous adage carrot_and_stick policy. The ruler imposes jaziya, punishment etc for being Hindu [& Buddhist] and the Sufi goes preaching the [economic and sometimes sppiritual] importance of accepting Islam and voila you have people who got converted because of the Sufis.

I'm sorry but you cannot blame both sides on this one. Just look at the posts. It is decidedly one side attack by Indians on our faith. All the replies by Muslims have been defensive.

The Indians have an innate hate for Muslims and they feel they have a right to be belligerent and obnoxious about it. No posts here by any Pakistani members have mocked, questioned or belittled Hinduism/Sikhism/any other religion.

the evidence speaks for itself.

Don't play victim..Don't ever.

Muslims are not like you people, we are honest about everything and we are always open to debate and discuss.

We are open to debate*





*Until you accept our views and conditions, you dont question Islam or its teachings - even in debate, you don't criticise anyone related to Islam, you dont question the fallacies that are rife in it, you dont question the actions of the Prophet, you dont question the violence on non-believers that has been a part and parcel of Islam, you dont say something negative about it, you dont.....

 

[Rig Vedic]

really? and how do you know I don't represent the average Muslim? did your swami tell you that?
Do you have stats to back it up or are you pulling $hit our of your @ss ?

You claim to be a Sufi and in favour of open discussion ... but see how quickly you descend to vulgar language? Maybe I was mistaken in thinking you are a non-typical fellow.

Lets start with the basics. do you even know what a hadith is? do you know who Imam Bukhari was? Do you know how he complied the hadith?

As for your ridiculous statements about open discussion, I will once again post a forum link to people discussing the hadith.

Weak Hadith In Sahih Bukhari? - Page 2

Bukhari's Sahih Hadith is the most authentic collection of Hadith. It was completed in 846 AD. If you have a source dating from before 1200 AD say, claiming that the Hadith quoted is "weak", we will consider it. You also have to consider the possibility that Muslims started calling it "weak" only recently, to hide their embarrassment and save their faith.

 

[King Solomon]

You claim to be a Sufi and in favour of open discussion ... but see how quickly you descend to vulgar language? Maybe I was mistaken in thinking you are a non-typical fellow.



Bukhari's Sahih Hadith is the most authentic collection on of Hadith. It was completed in 846 AD. If you have a source dating from before 1200 AD say, claiming that the Hadith quoted is "weak" I will consider it. You also have to consider the possibility that Muslims started calling it "weak" only recently, to hide their embarrassment and save their faith.

Hadiths are absolutely illegal and are no authority in Islam whatsoever. They are nothing more than a tool of extremist Mullahs to keep masses sedated or in control. This also makes them a favourite among extremist non Muslims who seek to vilify Islam.

I dare you to support your argument using the Koran. Hint: you wouldn't be able to.

 

[KS]

Hadiths are absolutely illegal and are no authority in Islam whatsoever. They are nothing more than a tool of extremist Mullahs to keep masses sedated or in control. This also makes them a favourite among extremist non Muslims who seek to vilify Islam.

I dare you to support your argument using the Koran. Hint: you wouldn't be able to.

That is lame considering that accepting the authenticity of Hadiths as tools of guidance in understanding Kuran is a universally agreed one.

I perhaps understand why you want to disown the Hadiths, but unfortunately you might be one in a billion, literally.

 

[King Solomon]

That is lame considering that accepting the authenticity of Hadiths like Sahih [al] Bukhari and Sahih Muslim is a universally agreed one.

I perhaps understand why you want to disown the Hadiths, but unfortunately you might be one in a billion, literally.

I can tell you it is not "universally agreed". Even if it was, it does not automatically validate something.

I'm still waiting for him to support what he said using the Koran. Koran is not some small book... It has some 6236 verses. Support his argument with any verse you want from the 6236.

 

[KS]

I can tell you it is not "universally agreed". Even if it was, it does not automatically validate something.
.

I dont understand your logic. You mean to say Muslims over the world dont follow Hadiths or it is no given as a justification for anything ?

If you say so - you are lying. Through your teeth. Don't forget I;m from India with exposure to plenty of Muslims in all walks of life. They hold Hadiths as important as Quran...okay maybe a trifle less, but none the less extremely important as a tool to interpret Quran.

I also know why you would like to dosown the Hadits after centuries of accepting it. Certain things in the Hadiths don't jel exactly with 21st century standards. But disowning is not the solution, reforming is.

 

[jatt+gutts]

There are many many more Sikhs that convert to Islam, my sister in law is a Sikh girl.

in my whole life i have never seen a sikh converted to islam. that guys punjabi is very pakistani. not indian punjabi. we speak in differnt way buddy. other than pakistanis claiming in internet no sikh ever convert to islam. in punjab its a religion of mirasis.

 

[King Solomon]

I dont understand your logic. You mean to say Muslims over the world dont follow Hadiths or it is no given as a justification for anything ?

If you say so - you are lying. Through your teeth. Don't forget I;m from India with exposure to plenty of Muslims in all walks of life. They hold Hadiths as important as Quran...okay maybe a trifle less, but none the less extremely important as a tool to interpret Quran.

I also know why you would like to dosown the Hadits after centuries of accepting it. Certain things in the Hadiths don't jel exactly with 21st century standards. But disowning is not the solution, reforming is.

If a certain thing is done by the majority, does not mean the religion advocates it. I am not disowning hadiths, the Koran itself disowns hadiths. You should look at the Koran if you have genuine desire to understand Islam and not any other book including hadith.

E.g: How many Hindus know that according to Hinduism scriptures, God is only one? Only a few who have mastery in the scriptures would know that.

 

[Rafi]

in my whole life i have never seen a sikh converted to islam. other than pakistanis claiming in internet. i will believe if i see one.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[Don Jaguar]

Hahahahahaha still fighting.

 

[jatt+gutts]

 

[RazPaK]

But you told your ancestors are from Jammu. (but you used many words like Dogra, Kashmiri, Punjabi, Saraiki for yourself at different duration of time and arains are genetically Sindhis.)

Not true, and I would appreciate if you would not spread misinformation.

My ancestors were from Jammu, and were Arains.

Thanks.

@ Rafi. Don't argue with the Sikh.



Just ask him who Baba Farid is. LOLz

 

[KS]

If a certain thing is done by the majority, does not mean the religion advocates it. I am not disowning hadiths, the Koran itself disowns hadiths. You should look at the Koran if you have genuine desire to understand Islam and not any otherbook including hadith.

Are you saying that the absolute majority of the Ulemas, Islamic scholars, Thelogians etc who accept the authenticity of the Hadiths dont know Quran ? If that is true then it reflects only the sad state of Muslims today.

E.g: How many Hindus know that according to Hinduism scriptures, God is only one? Only a few who have mastery in the scriptures would know that.

Let's not confuse Islam with Hinduism...there is a reason why Hinduism is called an unorganized religion and Islam [& xtianity, Judaism] a Bookish religion. Scriptures are not one bit important in Hinduism. You can be a Hindu without reading a single page in any of the scriptures.

 

[RazPaK]

If S-19 didn't follow hadiths he would have no idea how to pray.

Please do not seek knowledge from him, because he himself is not very knowledgeable at all.