U.S. asks Vietnam to stop helping Russian bomber flights

[Viet]

Wow, some of the estimation about US pushing Vietnam into US camp is WAY OFF. Why do we need Vietnam to be with the US camp, if the goal is simply to contain China?

Well, nobody will believe me if I say US is not to push any country around, but hey...So, let's just talk about US pivot to Asia and the global containment of China, shall we?

The question is not whether or not US force Vietnam into their camp, there are no ifs or buts, US does not need Vietnam into US camp to counter China. American current strategic allies (namely Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia and Taiwan) have

3 Fleet carrier

7 Small carrier (4 LHD from US, 2 LHD from Japan and 1 LHD from South Korea)

100+ Destroyer and Frigate (35-40 AB destroyer from US, 26 Destroyer and 17 Frigate from Japan, 12 Destroyer and 11 Frigate from ROKN, 10-12 Frigate from RAN, 6 Frigate from Singapore and 4 Destroyer and 22 Frigate from ROCN)

64 Submarine (30 submarine from US Navy, 16 submarine from JMSDF,13 Submarine from ROKN, 6 Submarine from RAN, 7 Submarine from Singaporean Navy and 2 Submarine from ROCN)

I mean, it's not that US don't want Vietnam or India, in some extend to the US camp, but US simply don't need to if the objective is simply to contain China, China cannot match the current US strategic Allies output number by number, pound by pound.

The US do not need India or Vietnam in US camp to counter China, US can take China and its allies in Asia alone with the already Strategic allies, but for that to happen, other country in SCS and Asia need to stay out of the way and play neutral.

Russia, on the other hand, would swing either way, they could be neutral in SCS or they could be helping the Chinese, but the problem is, the US can accept certain degree of Russian Help toward China to break the containment, but a large scale help on the table would upset the balance. However, coming back to the issue about Russia helping China on the table. Why would Russia do that?? If Russia get involve directly , both US, China and Russia would be damaged a significant heaps in the mess, along with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Australia to some degree, however, since US is not even based on Asia, their damage can be replace rather quickly, assuming such a conflict will not turn to nuclear scale.

But with Russia sideline themselves, and sitting afar and watch US having a go at China and damage each other would serve the Russian interest a lot more than helping China. SO why push Russia into the equation by pushing India and Vietnam out of their sphere of influence??

The ball, contrary to most Chinese member here said. Is in Vietnam hand. US don't need Vietnam to be in US camp, I mean sure, it would be nice for US if they have more allies, but that would have to be up to Vietnam themselves. If Vietnam want to be in the US camp, then things have got to change, if not, that's fine too, as long as Vietnam stay neutral in the pivot thing. So this is up to Vietnam, not US to determine how close they want to get.

@Viet @BoQ77 @Carlosa @Peter C

he he he in your analysis you missed to assess the strategic importance of vietnam:

in all countries in SE Asia, it is only vietnam, that has the will and is capable to challenge china military power. so in east asia: japan. the rest is negligible. sure, south korea, singapore, australia and taiwan are US allies, having respectful military assets. but I doubt the willingness to go to war because of other people interests. where are they when china pushes the claims and bullies the nations around?

besides, we possess the most islands in the SC Sea, virtually controlling the sea lanes.

the US says they can provide vietnam with security guarantee in short, medium and long term. US business will invest about $40b in our economy with 2 years. that is a very serious offer, we need to consider.

 

[NiceGuy]

As an honorary Vietnamese and the one and only self-appointed VietNam representative in PDF, I officially declare that we prefer the US.

We still love our Russian brother and will still cherish our traditional ties, but due to unforeseen circumstances, we will now need focus on our relationship with the US. Thank you.

"Vãi với cả tự đại diện cho đất Việt ".. I hope u can speak a little VNese

Yep, we all love our big bro Russia, but we also need to survive on this planet, so, we will have to make a deal wt the one who can give some good benefits to VN

 

[Viet]

Most of VNese still like Russia coz hes our long time big bro. But we need Mr.Putin to help VN to unify sub-Mekong region like Soviet's help in 1979 now.

If US can help sub-Mekong people to create a solidarity sub-Mekong region, then we must do some thing to make US happy to return the favour .

russia can not provide us with security and economic assistance we need. wake up, bro.

 

[NiceGuy]

russia can not provide us with security and economic assistance we need. wake up, bro.

Russia can provide VN some good weapons like Kilos- S300 on Credit . Thats so good for a poor country like VN, but we need more help to get bigger and stronger such as a help to unify sub-Mekong region like what Soviet did in 1979, so we can counter against all threats by our own strength

We r not sure US can offer the same help or not.

 

[jhungary]

he he he in your analysis you missed to assess the strategic importance of vietnam:

in all countries in SE Asia, it is only vietnam, that has the will and is capable to challenge china military power. so in east asia: japan. the rest is negligible. sure, south korea, singapore, australia and taiwan are US allies, having respectful military assets. but I doubt the willingness to go to war because of other people interests. where are they when china pushes the claims and bullies the nations around?

besides, we possess the most islands in the SC Sea, virtually controlling the sea lanes.

the US says they can provide vietnam with security guarantee in short, medium and long term. US business will invest about $40b in our economy with 2 years. that is a very serious offer, we need to consider.

heh, that's because I am not talking about a direct challenge...I am just talking about how US would contain China and block Chinese from spill over to Indian Ocean and the Pacific. For that you will need choke point in the clauseway. Not actual real estate.

What you are saying is to establish a ground war with China, then yes, if US were to invade China, then Vietnam Mainland, can be the best springboard there to offer. Because of all the country that border China, Russia is ruled out, India would always have a NAP and almost again ruled out for sure. Pakistan would not allow. Burma is good, but the hills in Burma means tank is a no go, Afghanistan's connection is too small of a choke point. Then only north Korea and Vietnam left...And If this is my decision, I would take Vietnam any day...

 

[Viet]

Vietnam and China be like...
View attachment 202149

Apparently China does love Vietnam, but China just showing her feeling in a bit different way

no love, but bottemless hatred on vietnam.

you know vietnam and china are like a divorced couple. we had wonderful times together. like any couple we endure highs and lows. but if both have more differences and common ground, it is time to separate. vietnam is like a girl, that seeks the divorce, while china is like an angry man, that rejects to accept the new reality. though, the man finds a new relationship (a beautiful girl in pakistan), he hates his ex-wife and finds all possible ways to make the new life of his ex-viet wife as difficult as possible.

china is like a man, that dreams of the past and refuses to move on.

Russia can provide VN some good weapons like Kilos- S300 on Credit . Thats so good for a poor country like VN, but we need more help to get bigger and stronger such as a help to unify sub-Mekong region like what Soviet did in 1979, so we can counter against all threats by our own strength

We r not sure US can offer the same help or not.

bro, forget submekong empire... today is 2015, not 1715.

we will keep our good relatinship to russia. the russians can continue to provide us with weapons and other things, but vladimir putin is not capable to give us what we need: security and massive economic assistance.

 

[Carlosa]

Yes. Actually Chinese and Vietnamese economy relationship is increasing very fast.
Except the island issue, there could be much room for friendship and mutual benefit.
If Vietnam does not make trouble with China, China is willing to have a good relationship with Vietnam.
I guess why Vietnam government want to start the conflicts is to move public`s eye from its poor management.



China is trying to set up power here in ASEAN
Those who cooperate will get economy benefit, military support.
Those who against China, let`s wait and see..

20 years is not good enough for me. The years that I have in mind are 1974 and 1988, those are clear cases of China grabbing Vietnamese islands, when those situations get resolved, then we can talk and since China continues to grab PH islands and claims all present Vietnamese islands, my estimation is that nothing has changed with China.

Has Vietnan invaded any chinese island? What trouble are you talking about?

no love, but bottemless hatred on vietnam.

you know vietnam and china are like a divorced couple. we had wonderful times together. like any couple we endure highs and lows. but if both have more differences and common ground, it is time to separate. vietnam is like a girl, that seeks the divorce, while china is like an angry man, that rejects to accept the new reality. though, the man finds a new relationship (a beautiful girl in pakistan), he hates his ex-wife and finds all possible ways to make the new life of his ex-viet wife as difficult as possible.

china is like a man, that dreams of the past and refuses to move on..

That's a good one bro !!!

 

[NiceGuy]

no love, but bottemless hatred on vietnam.

you know vietnam and china are like a divorced couple. we had wonderful times together. but if both have more differences and common ground, it is time to separate. vietnam is like a girl, that seeks the divorce, while china is like an angry man, that rejects to accept the new reality. though, the man finds a new relationship (a beautiful girl in pakistan), he hates his ex-wife and finds all possible ways to make the new life of his ex-viet wife as difficult as possible.

china is like a man, that dreams of the past and refuses to move on.

.

Yeah right, so we called for help from a big burly guys like Soviet, he did protect us well until he went bankrupt and now we r calling help from the world police to kick our ex-bad husband's @zz

Mean while, VN also buy a good gun to protect itself from that brutal husband

bro, forget submekong empire... today is 2015, not 1715.

we will keep our good relatinship to russia. the russians can continue to provide us with weapons and other things, but vladimir putin is not capable to give us what we need: security and massive economic assistance.

Right , its 2015 now, so we just need to set up a pro-VN govt in Thailand like pro-VN govt. in Laos-Kam, and Thai Major General Surasit Thanadtang is the right man for us

 

[Carlosa]

heh, that's because I am not talking about a direct challenge...I am just talking about how US would contain China and block Chinese from spill over to Indian Ocean and the Pacific. For that you will need choke point in the clauseway. Not actual real estate.

What you are saying is to establish a ground war with China, then yes, if US were to invade China, then Vietnam Mainland, can be the best springboard there to offer. Because of all the country that border China, Russia is ruled out, India would always have a NAP and almost again ruled out for sure. Pakistan would not allow. Burma is good, but the hills in Burma means tank is a no go, Afghanistan's connection is too small of a choke point. Then only north Korea and Vietnam left...And If this is my decision, I would take Vietnam any day...

What Viet said has nothing to do with ground war, but containing China within the SCS. You are talking about containing China by preventing her for going into The Indian Ocean or Pacific, we are talking about containing them within the SCS, meaning to not let them take over the SCS.

 

[jhungary]

What Viet said has nothing to do with ground war, but containing China within the SCS. You are talking about containing China by preventing her for going into The Indian Ocean or Pacific, we are talking about containing them within the SCS, meaning to not let them take over the SCS.

oh........

but you cannot actually fight for the ocean in the ocean, at some point you need to get the island warfare campaign if you want to keep China out of SCS, as they already have land base in SCS.

 

[Carlosa]

oh........

but you cannot actually fight for the ocean in the ocean, at some point you need to get the island warfare campaign if you want to keep China out of SCS, as they already have land base in SCS.

Yes, island warfare yes, but I don't see that as a ground war but as a naval / amphibious warfare.

Right , its 2015 now, so we just need to set up a pro-VN govt in Thailand like pro-VN govt. in Laos-Kam, and Thai Major General Surasit Thanadtang is the right man for us

Troi oi.

 

[jhungary]

Yes, island warfare yes, but I don't see that as a ground war but as as naval / amphibious warfare.



Troi oi.

lol, I was just saying, Vietnam would be a good springboard if a ground war was fought between Vietnam ad US

 

[Carlosa]

lol, I was just saying, Vietnam would be a good springboard if a ground war was fought between Vietnam ad US

I took it as you meaning ground war via VN / CN border.

 

[BoQ77]

Tu-16 escorted by F-14

169th Guards Roslavlskiy Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment

169-й гвардейский тяжелый бомбардировочный Рославльский авиационный полк

Military Unit: 15564

Activated 13.5.43 as the 17th Guards Aviation Regiment Long-Range.

26.12.44 renamed 17th Guards Bomber Aviation Regiment.

21.12.45 renamed 169th Guards Bomber Aviation Regiment.

1951 renamed 169th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment.

15.4.60 transferred to the Navy (Pacific Fleet), and 15.8.60 renamed 169th Guards Maritime Torpedo Aviation Regiment.

1.5.61 renamed 169th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment.

20.12.82 renamed 169th Guards Mixed Aviation Regiment.

1.12.86 renamed 169th independent Guards Mixed Aviation Regiment.

1.12.89 reduced, and renamed 362nd independent Guards Mixed Aviation Squadron.

Disbanded 1.12.93.

Bases:

• Khanko-2 (Hamsung), North Korea, 6.46 - 28.6.48 [39 59 49N, 127 36 46E]
• Zavitinsk, Amur Oblast, 7.48 - 5.51 [50 11 27N, 129 30 13E]
• Khorol, Primorskiy Kray, 5.51 - 12.82 [44 27 02N, 132 07 24E]
• Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam, 12.82 - 12.93 [12 00 12N, 109 13 10E]

Aircraft:

• Il-4, 1943-1951
• Tu-4, 8.51-1957
• Tu-16, 1957-1989 (from 1982 only 1st squadron)
• Tu-16K, 1960-1989 (from 1982 only 1st squadron)
• Tu-95RTS, 1982-1993 (2nd squadron)
• Tu-142M, 1982-1993 (2nd squadron)
• MiG-23MLD, late 1984-1989 (3rd squadron)

Inventory 1984:

• 1st AE: 10 Tu-16K-26, 2 Tu-16Z, 4 Tu-16SPS
• 2nd AE: 4 Tu-95RTS and 4 Tu-142M
• 3rd AE: 12 MiG-23MLD

Subordination:

• 6th Guards Aviation Division Long Range, 5.43 - 12.44
• 16th Guards Bomber Aviation Division, 12.44 - 4.46
• 33rd Bomber Aviation Division, 4.46 - 5.51
• 55th Heavy Bomber Aviation Division, 5.51 - 4.60
• 3rd Maritime Torpedo Aviation Division Long-Range, 4.60 - 5.61
• 3rd Maritime Missile Aviation Division, 5.61 - 7.71
• 25th Maritime Missile Aviation Division, 7.71 - 11.86
• Pacific Fleet, 11.86 - 12.93

 

[Viet]

What Viet said has nothing to do with ground war, but containing China within the SCS. You are talking about containing China by preventing her for going into The Indian Ocean or Pacific, we are talking about containing them within the SCS, meaning to not let them take over the SCS.

exactly, should the conflict get out of control, a ground war is very unlikely, but can´t be ruled out. a naval confrontation is a scenario, that our navy needs to be prepared for.