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Type-212 vs Type-214 explained

On the 15th of November, the Greek Navy officially comunicated to HDW the decision to refuse acceptance of delivery of the Papanikolis type U214 submarine.
Among the reasons mentioned:

-Excessive roll on surface (up to 56 degrees).
-Excessive underwater noise generation.
-Periscope vibrations.
-Frequent falls of the ISUS combat system.
-Power losses in the AIP.
-Sea water leaks.
Typical indian BR troller.
genius. Papanikolis is the very first Type-214 and like any other new products it faces some minor problems which are gradually fixed! I know its in indian ego to downgrade anything related to pakistan so to give you the reality check all operational Type-214s like in service with Korean navy are performing 100% great!
Do you have a life? other then to troll around?

Greeks are making excuses to drop out of this project and so far they have come up with very lame excuses. At the end of the day, Greece can not afford these subs due to economic melt down and its most likely Papanikolis will go to either Taiwan or pakistan.
 
Typical indian BR troller.
genius. Papanikolis is the very first Type-214 and like any other new products it faces some minor problems which are gradually fixed! I know its in indian ego to downgrade anything related to pakistan so to give you the reality check all operational Type-214s like in service with Korean navy are performing 100% great!
Do you have a life? other then to troll around?

Greeks are making excuses to drop out of this project and so far they have come up with very lame excuses. At the end of the day, Greece can not afford these subs due to economic melt down and its most likely Papanikolis will go to either Taiwan or pakistan.


mr growler if the type 214 are really so powerfull i had a que why hasnt the german navy ordered even a single type 214
 
mr growler if the type 214 are really so powerfull i had a que why hasnt the german navy ordered even a single type 214

If the bahramos is so powerful (the most leathel AShM in da world claimed by indians) then why hasnt Russia ordered a single bahramos?
Being a troller that you are, you lack the comprehension that it is the requirement that suites the best. not the price tag and not the origin.
For instance. Isreal never operated FA-18 beside it being much superior to F-16s and surprisingly they went on to induct F-16I instead of their own version of Super Hornet.
Its quite obvious that you did not even read the 1st post and started off with the usual rants. Try to comprehend this.
Note that U-212 was never offered as an option to a navy. When it was offered to the Italian navy, there was no U-214 yet.
U-212 uses an imported combat system partially made in Norway by Kongsberg, known as MSI-90, while U-214s combat system is made in germany.by Atlas-Elektronik, being the latest version of the ISUS-90 system.

As for your question. why doesnt Germany use Type-214?
The reason why Germans opted for 212 was because it meets the demand to operate in shallow water of Baltic sea and has a different type of hull specifically made for that task! where as 214 is a deep sea diving sub and has different hull to sustain presser beyound 400+ meters.

Both Type-214 and 212 are equally as good.
 
If the bahramos is so powerful (the most leathel AShM in da world claimed by indians) then why hasnt Russia ordered a single bahramos?
Being a troller that you are, you lack the comprehension that it is the requirement that suites the best. not the price tag and not the origin.
For instance. Isreal never operated FA-18 beside it being much superior to F-16s and surprisingly they went on to induct F-16I instead of their own version of Super Hornet.
Its quite obvious that you did not even read the 1st post and started off with the usual rants. Try to comprehend this.


As for your question. why doesnt Germany use Type-214?
The reason why Germans opted for 212 was because it meets the demand to operate in shallow water of Baltic sea and has a different type of hull specifically made for that task! where as 214 is a deep sea diving sub and has different hull to sustain presser beyound 400+ meters.

Both Type-214 and 212 are equally as good.

Here i have to agree with Growler Type 214 is one of the best Non nuclear sub and disagree on his Bramhos view Russia is reluctant to induct only because of its range i.e 290km not because its capability thats my view ofcourse
 
BrahMos could be fitted to the updated Gorshkov class of frigates which will be entering the Russian navy soon and the new ships will be acomadating this missile
 
Both Type-214 and 212 are equally as good.

Not at all.

Type 212 is a highly advanced design of non-nuclear submarine (U-Boat) developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW) for the German Navy. It features diesel propulsion and an additional air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens proton exchange membrane (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. The submarine can operate at high speed on diesel power or switch to the AIP system for silent slow cruising, staying submerged for up to three weeks without surfacing and with no exhaust heat. The system is also said to be vibration-free, extremely quiet and virtually undetectable.

Type 212 is the first of the only two fuel cell propulsion system equipped submarines ready for series production by 2007, the other being the Project 677 Lada class submarine designed by Russian Rubin Design Bureau.

The Type 214 is a diesel-electric submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW). It features diesel propulsion with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens polymer electrolyte module (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. It is based on features of the Type 212, but as the export version of the more advanced Type 212 submarine it lacks the non-magnetic hull (to avoid detection) and other classified technologies. Also Type 214 is more similar to the very successful Type 209 submarine, while Type 212 was an independent project of the German Navy with significant changes to Type 209.

GB
 
Not at all.

Type 212 is a highly advanced design of non-nuclear submarine (U-Boat) developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW) for the German Navy. It features diesel propulsion and an additional air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens proton exchange membrane (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. The submarine can operate at high speed on diesel power or switch to the AIP system for silent slow cruising, staying submerged for up to three weeks without surfacing and with no exhaust heat. The system is also said to be vibration-free, extremely quiet and virtually undetectable.

Type 212 is the first of the only two fuel cell propulsion system equipped submarines ready for series production by 2007, the other being the Project 677 Lada class submarine designed by Russian Rubin Design Bureau.

The Type 214 is a diesel-electric submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW). It features diesel propulsion with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens polymer electrolyte module (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. It is based on features of the Type 212, but as the export version of the more advanced Type 212 submarine it lacks the non-magnetic hull (to avoid detection) and other classified technologies. Also Type 214 is more similar to the very successful Type 209 submarine, while Type 212 was an independent project of the German Navy with significant changes to Type 209.

GB

YOu F*** A***! Stop trolling my threads with your useless one liners! At least read the 1st post before you hit the keyboard like a ****!
U-212 and U-214 are answers to different problems, and therefore they are different.
U-212 is the result of a german requirement for a submarine with a non magnetic hull. This requirement has to do with the average depth of the Baltic Sea (56m). In those circumstances, the most important defence method of a submarine is just to go to the bottom and try to disappear in the sonar. Hence, the need for a non-magnetic steel hull.
Unfortunatelly, non-magnetic steel is also known in the industry as «sweet.steel.» Meaning that it is «softer» than the steel used in the U-214. Thats why a U-214 can go deeper than a U-212, although in the shallow water of the Baltic the U-212 would go un-notices while the U-214 would probably be caught by sonar.

Actually the family legacy of U-212 is not U-209, but the Thyssen project from the 1970s that resulted in the TR-1700 submarine from Argentina. The fastest Diesel-electric submarine in the world. The same basic layout with two decks is also found in the Dolphin class from Israel, although without non-magnetic steel nor AIP.

U-214s legacy is the U-209, although much changed. It is narrower and longer that U-212. It was not thought for the Baltic, but for open deep sea operation. Therefore U-214 will have no bottom of the sea limit, other than the limit imposed by the resistance of its stronger hull.

Both U-214 and U-212 can operate in shallow waters or deep waters, but U-212 has the edge on shallow water, while U-214 has the edge on deep water.

The systems can be changed and installed on either vessels, depending on the requirement of the users.
U-212 has older systems than the U-214 (which is just natural as the projects are almost 10 years apart).

Note that U-212 was never offered as an option to a navy. When it was offered to the Italian navy, there was no U-214 yet.

U-212 uses an imported combat system partially made in Norway by Kongsberg, known as MSI-90, while U-214s combat system is made in germany.by Atlas-Elektronik, being the latest version of the ISUS-90 system.

There are many differences in combat systems, but one of the most important results in U-212 being only able to fire torpedoes, while U-214 can fire both torpedoes and submarine launched sub harpoon missiles. This will change in future versions of U-212 though.

The consolidation of german naval industry ended with the competition between both models in the 1990s.

One cant just say which of them is better. The U-212 was an absolute german need for the Baltic conditions. Italy wanted an AIP submarine, and there wasnt really any real choice at the time. When a navy makes an option for a model, the most logical option is to stick to it, and thus Italy is going to get an additional two U-212.

For a navy that is going to protect shallow waters, there is no doubt about the clear superiority of U-212. In deep sea operations away from the shores, U-214 will fare better.

Now crawl back to your BR gutter!
 
mr growler think before you use such words
no one can say that type 214 is better than type 212
the type 212 which are used by german navy have some classified techs which are only in german type 212 no country will share their classified techs
so think before u throw ur words
 
mr growler think before you use such words
no one can say that type 214 is better than type 212
the type 212 which are used by german navy have some classified techs which are only in german type 212 no country will share their classified techs
so think before u throw ur words

:mod edit:

Where When did i say 214 is superior to 212? You can not comprehend the fact that both platforms are made for different purposes.. 212 is best suited for shallow waters while 214 with 400+ meters depth is best suited for deep sea operations.
 
Now looking at your foul language its clear that I proved my point effectively that Type-214 is not as good as Type-212.
You have not proven squat! other then posting articles without links that 212 has non magmatic hull and secretive technologies.
i have already proven.
U-212 uses an imported combat system partially made in Norway by Kongsberg, known as MSI-90, while U-214s combat system is made in germany.by Atlas-Elektronik, being the latest version of the ISUS-90 system.
We are at knowledge sharing which also sometimes involves debate. There is no need to use foul language if you don't agree with other posters.
You obviously have no knowledge to share other then. mine is bigger better then yours.
 
Indian troller!

Where When did i say 214 is superior to 212? You can not comprehend the fact that both platforms are made for different purposes.. 212 is best suited for shallow waters while 214 with 400+ meters depth is best suited for deep sea operations.

Now you are on backfoot.

You said Type-214 is as good as Type-212 against which my reply was

The Type 214 is a diesel-electric submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW). It features diesel propulsion with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens polymer electrolyte module (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. It is based on features of the Type 212, but as the export version of the more advanced Type 212 submarine it lacks the non-magnetic hull (to avoid detection) and other classified technologies. Also Type 214 is more similar to the very successful Type 209 submarine, while Type 212 was an independent project of the German Navy with significant changes to Type 209.

Also Type 212 is the first of the only two fuel cell propulsion system equipped submarines ready for series production by 2007, the other being the Project 677 Lada class submarine designed by Russian Rubin Design Bureau.

It has more than deep sea and shallow waters.

GB
 
mr troller
i never objected ur facts but said that every country have some classified techs which they dont share simillary the type 212 hav classified techs which are not there in type 214

Oh so you have proven my point that you are not that smart enough so u are using my lines against me.
Mr.indian troller
which classified techs are you talking about? which systems?
so your point is that 212 is better then 214 because it uses classified tech and non magnetic hull.. what a point to win a debate.
i still stand to my point. both 212 and 214 are equally as good for their rolls.
 
I am quite amused to see the action of mod on this topic.

Foul language and personal insult posts stay. Sane replies deleted.

GB
 
not only in the case of type 212 even the f16 paf using cant match the f16 used by us because us will not share their classified techs and if really type 214 are equally powerfull like type 212 then germany navy would have inducted them because every navy requires both shallow water subs and deep water subs but till now german navy hasnt inducted a single type 214 and has no future plans its only for export
 
not only in the case of type 212 even the f16 paf using cant match the f16 used by us because us will not share their classified techs and if really type 214 are equally powerfull like type 212 then germany navy would have inducted them because every navy requires both shallow water subs and deep water subs but till now german navy hasnt inducted a single type 214 and has no future plans its only for export

mr.sane
:rofl:
did some one tell you that you are a genius?
Exactly which classified systems our new F-16s lack that are present in USAF F-16s? oh is it the death star?
 

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