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Two Opposing Terms: Islamic and Republic

Definitions are just that, why can't we have our own definition of what we deem as republic, I mean we are not that intellectually bankrupt that we have to follow a certain definition given by someone from a different kind of society.

@T-123456, @FaujHistorian

:)
 
Sir, I have read the rest of the comments and understand that no misuse is meant, but the comment was noted for the poster of the thread, who always has some issue against Islam and its role on society etc....all his posts involve Islam in some shady setting....
Do you mean Islamic governing?
As far as i could see,he is against religion into politics.
 
Sir, I have read the rest of the comments and understand that no misuse is meant, but the comment was noted for the poster of the thread, who always has some issue against Islam and its role on society etc....all his posts involve Islam in some shady setting....



Sir, the opposite of Repulic is autocratic, and that of Islam is infidelic (in this context), so common sense dictates that they are not eachothers antonyms....


Not about Islam.

This thread is about the concept of "Republic" that excludes the use of monarchs and those with authority on interpreting divine revelations.


Do not make it an Islamist $hit slinging thread.

Thank you.

Do you mean Islamic governing?
As far as i could see,he is against religion into politics.

More precisely?

I am against inclusion of politics into religion.

When dirty smelly 2-bit politicians grow beards wear hijabs and occupy mosques (and universities) and use sermons to win seats and create death and destruction in the streets.



Hope that helps.
 
Do you mean Islamic governing?
As far as i could see,he is against religion into politics.

he may do mean what you said but i, you know what just leave it, I have my own observations that I have made and you have your own, and that my friend in the Islamic thing to say....peace
 
Definitions are just that, why can't we have our own definition of what we deem as republic, I mean we are not that intellectually bankrupt that we have to follow a certain definition given by someone from a different kind of society.

@T-123456, @FaujHistorian

:)

you invent new words dear and define them your way.


you can't take well established terms, and start changing their meaning.


you cannot say that Iphone means lota (water jug used in the toilet)

Can you?


you cannot say that airplane means a donkey cart.

Can you?



may be if you are living in a cave where there is no concept of Iphone or airplane.

But you cannot use it in modern society where people are already linked to global knowledge.


peace
 
Not about Islam.

This thread is about the concept of "Republic" that excludes the use of monarchs and those with authority on interpreting divine revelations.


Do not make it an Islamist $hit slinging thread.

Thank you.



More precisely?
I am against inclusion of politics into religion.

When dirty smelly 2-bit politicians grow beards wear hijabs and occupy mosques (and universities) and use sermons to win seats and create death and destruction in the streets.



Hope that helps.

Sir, I too am against such parasites who abuse religion when they deem it fit, but your opinion that Islam and republicianism cant exist simultaneously is wrong, in Islam there too is no monarchy etc, thats all I am trying to say....Peace
 
Sir, I too am against such parasites who abuse religion when they deem it fit, but your opinion that Islam and republicianism cant exist simultaneously is wrong, in Islam there too is no monarchy etc, thats all I am trying to say....Peace

Yes in Islam there is no monarchy

But as per the prevailing thought among Islamists,

an Islamic system is run by those with power to interpret divine revelations.


And thus

Islamism (or political use of Islam) contradicts the concept of Republic.


Thank you.

he may do mean what you said but i, you know what just leave it, I have my own observations that I have made and you have your own, and that my friend in the Islamic thing to say....peace


Don't make a mistake of "observing" a fellow poster.

Make your observations about ideas.

Please follow forum rules.

Nothing personal.

We are a nation of 180 million, how many are TTP, a few thousand? So no it's not many Pakistanis but very small number of Pakistanis in a certain region thinking like that:)

If you could just see the kind of open debates that happen in our media and society in general, you'd know that closing it is not possible now. This thread is an example of the type of discussions happening openly in our society.


TTP is the ugly head that comes up among people of a country that do not believe in or have no idea about the term "Republic".
 
Definitions are just that, why can't we have our own definition of what we deem as republic, I mean we are not that intellectually bankrupt that we have to follow a certain definition given by someone from a different kind of society.

@T-123456, @FaujHistorian

:)
Why not?
If North-Korea can,we all can.
But North-Korea cant fool nobody,only itself.
 
@FaujHistorian, as @Leader pointed out and you agreed we do comply with at least one definition of republic, one is good enough:)

As for tieing up TTP with knowing or not knowing the idea of republic is a false equivalence:)
 
Yes in Islam there is no monarchy

But as per the prevailing thought among Islamists,

an Islamic system is run by those with power to interpret divine revelations.


And thus

Islamism (or political use of Islam) contradicts the concept of Republic.


Thank you.




Don't make a mistake of "observing" a fellow poster.

Make your observations about ideas.

Please follow forum rules.

Nothing personal.




TTP is the ugly head that comes up among people of a country that do not believe in or have no idea about the term "Republic".

Sir, Ok again, I will be be the conformist (that I rarely am), on the second matter I have not broken any rules or whatever by observing, where in my previous post have I explicitly said I observed you, I could have observed your protrayed ideas, I could have observed the stain on my ceiling fan, the truth is I could have observed anything I wanted, and it should not concern you what I observe because firstly, It doesnt go against any rules what so ever and secondly if you dont wanted yourself or your opioion to be observed or desiphered then dont post your opinion on a public forum where everyone is here to learn something (learning last time I checked is not possible without observation, heck it is the first step of the scientific method), and you stoping me from observing goes against the principle of a republic you seem to hold so fondly.....Nothing personal
 
@FaujHistorian, as @Leader pointed out and you agreed we do comply with at least one definition of republic, one is good enough:)

philosophical hank phanky is no definition in the context of modern governments.

So no

leader's interpretation is wrong if we are talking about 2013 AD.


As for tieing up TTP with knowing or not knowing the idea of republic is a false equivalence:)

People with zero concept of a republic can easily succumb to the temptation of anti-state activities.

I hope you understand.
 
philosophical hank phanky is no definition in the context of modern governments.

So no

leader's interpretation is wrong if we are talking about 2013 AD.




People with zero concept of a republic can easily succumb to the temptation of anti-state activities.

I hope you understand.

Now you are being rigid, anything you don't like you start to term it as mumbo jumbo/ hanky panky.... There is one definition to which ours complies with and that's enough for us:)


As for those TTP guys, they need concept of basic humanity for we have seen much bloodshed in the name of republics and nation states too.
 
Now you are being rigid, anything you don't like you start to term it as mumbo jumbo/ hanky panky.... There is one definition to which ours complies with and that's enough for us:)


As for those TTP guys, they need concept of basic humanity for we have seen much bloodshed in the name of republics and nation states too.


Oh bhai saib

Leader bhai cannot reinvent definition.

He has to say if he is following Plato, or thomas jefferson or montesque.

We cannot say that leader can redefine theory of relativity.

That's Einstein's not yours not mine and definitely not leaders.

I hope you understand.




==========================


And people who will teach TTP lesson in "humanity" are the ones who believe in Pakistani republic and not some Islamist mumbo jumbo Khalifa on earth Islamist Emirate of Afghanistan or somalia etc.

Thank you
 
1) To talk of an ‘Islamic democracy’ is to distort the concept of democracy to an unrecognisable extent. Irrespective of whether the religion itself can be conceptualised as democratic, this cannot compensate for the absence of political democracy.


2) Islamic states lack civil society where democratic debate and pressure can be fostered. This is partly because a conservative and religious curriculum dominates education and discourages a culture of questioning and debate.


3) Islam is an anti-democratic religion because Islamic fundamentalism is incompatible with the pluralism that is necessary for a democratic state. Muslim societies (such as many of the Arab or Asian states, for example Saudi Arabia) are authoritarian and consequently violently repressive. Authoritarianism is the natural consequence of the legal and doctrinal rigidity which makes a political culture of compromise impossible. Shari’a law is viewed as perfect and divine. Consequently, laws are best made through theocratic interpretation rather than democratic debate. This lends to systems structured around institutions such as the Faqih and the role of the clergy. Shari’a does not require separate legislatively defined provisions.


4) The notion of equal citizenship is also absent from Islamic thought because insurmountable inequalities between believers and non-believers are built into Islam.


5) The Muslim world cannot be democratic until it reforms its position on women. A central Qur’anic metaphor describes women as complementary to men, but not equal. As such, polygyny is allowed, women are denied equal inheritance rights and by some interpretations of Shari’a, their testimony in Court is worth half that of men.



Islam has always been Theocratic ; From the time of Muhammad (p.b.u.h) [7th century] all the way to early 20th century when the Last Caliph was dissolved in Turkey ..

Had Muslims remained on a par with all other societies, they might have revived. But by the 18th century one particular set of societies in western Europe had developed an economic and social system capable of transcending the 5,000-year-old limitations of the agrarian-based settled world as defined by the Greeks—who called it Oikoumene. Unlike most of the lands of Islamdom, those societies were rich in natural resources (especially the fossil fuels that could supplement human and animal power) and poor in space for expansion. Cut off by Muslims from controlling land routes from the East, European explorers had built on and surpassed Muslim seafaring technology to compete in the southern seas and discover new sea routes

The power of Islam as a source of public values had already waxed and waned many times; it intensified in the 18th and 19th centuries, receded in the early 20th century, and surged again after the mid-20th century. Thus, European colonizers appeared in the midst of an ongoing process that they greatly affected but did not completely transform.

The many efforts to revive and resist were largely unsuccessful. By 1818 British hegemony over India was complete, and many other colonies and mandates followed between then and the aftermath of World War I. Not all Muslim territories were colonized, but nearly all experienced some kind of dependency, be it psychological, political, technological, cultural, or economic.

In the 19th century Westernization and Islamic activism coexisted and competed. By the turn of the 20th century secular ethnic nationalism had become the most common mode of protest in Islamdom, but the spirit of Islamic reconstruction was also kept alive, either in conjunction with secular nationalism or in opposition to it.

Later in the 20th century, colonized Muslim societies gradually achieved political independence and built new states. Many of these states adopted a “Muslim” identity that they interpreted in various ways and implemented within such domains as law, education, and moral conduct.

The confused state of muslim countries today on the "mode of government" has its roots in religious history(glorious past) ..We are not willing to let go the religion , and at the same time trying to adopt contemporary democratic ideas


Today , 29 of the Muslim Countries around the globe are classified as "Authoritarian Regime" , 17 as "Hybrid Regimes" and only 3 (Indonesia , Malaysia and Senegal) as "Flawed Democracy" .. 25 of the muslim countries are officialy "Secular State" , still 40 of the muslim countries rank b/w 100-165 on the democracy Index Rank ...
This poor performance of Muslim countries on democracy index results from the basic fact that "Islam & democracy are incompatible"


Trying to mix "Islam" with "Republic " has damaged the essence of both of them ...

Either we can be a "Socialist Islamic Theocracy"
or a "Democratic Republic"

Not "Islamic" & "Republican" at the same time


We were the first one to invent the idea of "Theocratic(Islamic) Republic" when we officially named our country as "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" in 1956 ..

Since then , the "Islamic" part grew stronger over time and "Republic" became weaker and weaker .. And result is in front of us now ...
The idea of a"Theocratic Republic" has failed as we tried to mix two entirely different philosophies ; Islam & Republic
 
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So many Pakistanis use and abuse history and continue to be ignorant.

One such case is the use of two terms associated by Pakistan.

Islamic and Republic.

Even though the two are exact opposite of each other.

The concept of "Republic" in general means that no power for anyone claiming to have divine guidance.


Your definition of republic is incorrect. The words do not oppose each other.

A republic is a form of government in which affairs of state are a "public matter" (Latin: res publica), not the private concern of the rulers, in which public offices are consequently appointed or elected rather than privately accommodated (i.e., through inheritance or divine mandate)...source wiki

"republic" refers to any regime, or in a specific way to refer to governments which work for the public good.
 
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