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Turkish suppliers to be eliminated from F-35 program in 2020

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Backstabbing his long time ally , for a weapon system that would be out of date in a few years , is one of the more stupid things Erdogan did.

I remember back in 2009 , Obama chose turkey to be the first country to visit after he got elected. Back than Erdogan was still considered as the leader who carries the torch of democracy , secularism and freedom and hopefully would set the tone in the middle east. ( what a disappointment he turned out to be as far as democracy is concerned )

this is what Obama said than :


" This is my first trip overseas as President of the United States. I've been to the G20 summit in London, and the NATO summit in Strasbourg, and the European Union summit in Prague. Some people have asked me if I chose to continue my travels to Ankara and Istanbul to send a message to the world. And my answer is simple: Evet -- yes. (Applause.) Turkey is a critical ally. Turkey is an important part of Europe. And Turkey and the United States must stand together -- and work together -- to overcome the challenges of our time. "

And this is how Erdogan thinks is wise to treat his ally who also happens to be the world strongest super power. I wonder who does he think will come to his aid if he gets into trouble.




Other countries are watching and they can only arrive at one conclusion :

The capricious Erdogan cant be trusted to be loyal to his allies.



https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/us/politics/06obama-text.html
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Okkey. Some questions.

You also wanna talk about US backstabbings to Turkey ?
Do you have an idea how things come to this point ?
Do you think that being a trustworthy ally means only one-way road ?
Why do US choose militia-terrosist groups over his " Ally " in Syria against ISIS ?
Is arming a terrorist group which is a threat for you ally can be accepted ?
Why the US keeps a terrorist " GÜLEN " which is a threat for your ally and doesn't send him back ?
Would an ally indirectly attempt to change an elected leader via coups ?
Why the US didn't sell PATRIOTS when we asked to buy at first place ?
...
...
...
...
...
Yes many more questions to be answered.
 
Turkish suppliers to be eliminated from F-35 program in 2020
By: Valerie Insinna   18 hours ago

SKTO75P22JA4ZAKTXFN2R647WI.jpg

A mock-up of the F-35 cockpit is on display at an air show in Cigli, Turkey. (dardanellas/Getty Images)

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is preparing to transfer Turkey’s industrial participation in the F-35 to other countries unless Ankara reverses course on its plans to buy the Russian S-400 air defense system.

The move — which in early 2020 would end contracts with major Turkish defense contractors such as Turkish Aerospace Industries, Roketsan and Tusas Engine Industries, among many others — is just one of many steps the U.S. Defense Department intends to take to strip Turkey from the F-35 program, according to a June 6 letter from acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan.

The training of Turkish F-35 pilots at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona and of Turkish maintainers at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, will also end, Shanahan wrote, and U.S. military exercises in Turkey are in jeopardy.


How Turkey’s industry could suffer from the S-400 deal with Russia
The U.S. is threatening to withhold the F-35 fighter jet from Turkey if it accepts a Russian air defense system. That could be bad news for Turkish businesses.

By: Burak Ege Bekdil
“If Turkey procures the S-400, as we discussed during our call on May 28, 2019, our two countries must develop a plan to discontinue Turkey’s participation in the F-35 program,” Shanahan wrote in the letter, which was addressed to his counterpart, Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar. “While we seek to maintain our valued relationship, Turkey will not receive the F-35 if Turkey takes delivery of the S-400.”

However, Ellen Lord, undersecretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, noted that Turkish participation in the program would be allowed to continue if it drops its plan to buy the Russian air defense system. The delivery of the S-400 could occur as early as this month.


“Turkey still has the option to change course. If Turkey does not accept delivery of the S-400, we will enable Turkey to return to normal F-35 program activities,” she told reporters Friday. “Turkey is a close NATO ally and our military-to-military relationship is strong.”

Turkey, a partner in the F-35 program that helped fund the development of the jet, plans to buy 100 F-35As.

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Its first jet was rolled out in June 2018 in a festive “delivery ceremony,” but although Turkey formally owns its jets, the United States has the power to keep the planes from moving to Turkish soil and intends to keep all four existing Turkish jets from leaving the United States.


Turkey gets first F-35, but faces halt on future deliveries if Congress gets its way
At Turkey's F-35 rollout ceremony, there was flute-playing, a man in a bird outfit, and not a word about its controversial S-400 deal with Russia.

By: Valerie Insinna
Lord told reporters that the Pentagon is still deciding what it will do with Turkey’s jets. One option would be to buy the aircraft and repurpose them for the U.S. Air Force, but no official decision has been made.

Turkish companies are responsible for 937 parts used to build the F-35, with 400 of those sole-sourced from Turkish firms, Lord said. Existing contracts would go through a “disciplined and graceful wind down” period in “early 2020,” Lord said.


“If we can work to our timelines with the Turks, we would have no major disruptions and very few delays,” she said.

Vice Adm. Mat Winter, the F-35’s program executive, said in April that 50-75 aircraft could be delayed over a two-year period if Turkey is removed from the program, according to Breaking Defense. But Lord said those disruptions would occur only if the Pentagon terminated its supply chain agreements this summer.

Ultimately, prime contractors Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney will make the decisions on which subcontractors replace the Turkish vendors, but the Pentagon has identified new suppliers that could step up and make the parts currently sole-sourced by Turkey.

“They are predominantly U.S. sources. That’s not to say that we won’t continue to do what we always do with program management and look for other sources, because we would like to have second, third sources for most of the items,” she said.

The Defense Department has already stopped material deliveries to Turkey, halting the buildup of an engine overhaul facility that was planned to be built in and operated by Turkey.


“There are two other European MRO&Us [maintenance, repair, overhaul and upgrade facilities] that can absorb the volume with no issue whatsoever,” Lord said.

Despite Turkey’s industrial role in the program, Lord said she was confident that all important technical information would stay secure.

"We control what is downloaded from our computers. We have shared what's appropriate. The Turks have no critical documentation that we're concerned about,” she said.

What’s the impact on Turkish F-35 training?

The most immediate impact to Turkey, according to the letter from Shanahan, is that no new Turkish students will begin F-35 training at Luke Air Force Base. This defers the training of 20 students scheduled to begin training in June, as well as 14 students between July and November 2019.

“This training will not occur because we are suspending Turkey from the F-35 program; there are no longer requirements to gain proficiencies on the systems,” according to a document attached to the letter that spelled out the schedule for Turkey’s removal from the program.


In addition, the country will not be allowed to attend the annual F-35 Chief Executive Officer roundtable on June 12 — depriving Turkey of the opportunity to give input on any changes to the program’s governing documents.


4 questions on the risks facing Turkey’s defense industry
Bulent Aliriza of the Center for Strategic and International Studies outlines what he sees as potential hurdles for Turkey's defense industry in the coming years.

By: Aaron Mehta
But the most major day of reckoning is July 31, when Turkish personnel would no longer be allowed to access Luke Air Force Base in Arizona, where pilots are trained; Eglin Air Force Base in Florida, where maintainers are trained; or the F-35 Joint Program Office in Washington, D.C., where Turkish “cooperative project personnel” are stationed. Instead, the Turkish personnel must depart the United States and return to their country.

There are currently 42 Turkish military personnel training at Luke and Eglin — four pilots, and the rest maintainers. The July 31 deadline would allow 28 of them to complete their training, but the remainder would be sent home before their training naturally concluded, according to information attached to Shanahan’s letter.

The two Turkish instructor pilots based at Luke, who have completed the F-35 pilot training, would also be sent back to Turkey.

The larger impact


The situation with Turkey is fraught for myriad political and national security reasons. As the lone predominantly Muslim nation in NATO, Turkey occupies an important position in the alliance. The nation is also home to Incirlik Air Base, which is used by both the U.S. and Turkish air forces.

In the hopes of resolving the issue, the United States has sent technical teams to Ankara and hosted meetings in Washington to discuss the threat posed by the S-400 and the Pentagon’s offer of Raytheon’s Patriot air and missile defense system.

So far, those efforts have been unsuccessful, with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan continuing to make strong statements in support of an S-400 buy and the country’s defense minister acknowledging that Turkish military personnel had been sent to Russia for training on the air defense system.


Russia pitches Turkey the Su-57 fighter jet if F-35 deal with US collapses
Washington has threatened to expel Ankara from the Joint Strike Fighter program if Turkey deploys the Russian-made S-400 surface-to-air missile system on its soil.

By: Burak Ege Bekdil
Asked whether a final decision to buy the S-400 should be interpreted as Turkey bolstering its relationship with Russia at the expense of NATO, Andrew Winternitz, acting deputy assistant secretary of defense for Europe, demurred.

“Our counterparts really want to continue our really strategic partnership and our cooperation at NATO. And so we hope this is an aberration,” he said.


If Turkey buys the S-400, he added, “it changes our relationship, but it’s not something that we hope is going to disturb the many-layered strategic partnership that we have in Turkey across a number of issues.”

But other political actions may be unavoidable.

Should Turkey move forward with the S-400 purchase, it could trigger additional sanctions from Congress as part of the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, which penalizes U.S. partners who purchase Russian military equipment.

It could also impact future military exercises in Turkey, Winternitz said.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...s-to-be-eliminated-from-f-35-program-in-2020/
Turkey going to lose more then it can gain from dispute with US in short run . don;t know the future but if this continue US will stop Europe from cooperating with Turkey for engine development and joint air defense system development . a murkey future for Turkish defense industry . :(
Good news

Why you are happy ? are you a Israeli Jew in disguise ?
 
Turkey going to lose more then it can gain from dispute with US in short run . don;t know the future but if this continue US will stop Europe from cooperating with Turkey for engine development and joint air defense system development . a murkey future for Turkish defense industry . :(


Why you are happy ? are you a Israeli Jew in disguise ?

His a saudi dog what did you expect.
 
Turkey going to lose more then it can gain from dispute with US in short run . don;t know the future but if this continue US will stop Europe from cooperating with Turkey for engine development and joint air defense system development . a murkey future for Turkish defense industry . :(


Why you are happy ? are you a Israeli Jew in disguise ?
No I'm Arab that is good news because at this moment turkey is our enemy by supporting MB by supporting Qatar by supporting Gna and many other issues we haven't problems with Turks but turkey government is in front of arabs
 
No I'm Arab that is good news because at this moment turkey is our enemy by supporting MB by supporting Qatar by supporting Gna and many other issues we haven't problems with Turks but turkey government is in front of arabs

You always have been the enemies of Turks its not something recently.

Go and celebrate it like all the useless Arabs do.
 
Okkey. Some questions.

You also wanna talk about US backstabbings to Turkey ?
Do you have an idea how things come to this point ?
Do you think that being a trustworthy ally means only one-way road ?
Why do US choose militia-terrosist groups over his " Ally " in Syria against ISIS ?
Is arming a terrorist group which is a threat for you ally can be accepted ?
Why the US keeps a terrorist " GÜLEN " which is a threat for your ally and doesn't send him back ?
Would an ally indirectly attempt to change an elected leader via coups ?
Why the US didn't sell PATRIOTS when we asked to buy at first place ?
...
...
...
...
...
Yes many more questions to be answered.

Sorry i can only deal with facts not cheap conspiracy theories.

Fact is Erdogan megalomania is ruining relations with turkey long lasting allies.You could see how he does things last year when he refused to set free this American pastor.

What did he gain from that ? At the end he was forced to release him under threat of sanctions but not before he managed to put to tension his relationship with the US.

You see it tome and time again how Erdogan playing his macho games ruins Turkey foreign relations. I wonder who does he plan to turn to help if he runs into trouble with the Russians in Syria or the black sea.



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Sorry i can only deal with facts not cheap conspiracy theories.

Fact is Erdogan megalomania is ruining relations with turkey long lasting allies.You could see how he does things last year when he refused to set free this American pastor.

What did he gain from that ? At the end he was forced to release him under threat of sanctions but not before he managed to put to tension his relationship with the US.

You see it tome and time again how Erdogan playing his macho games ruins Turkey foreign relations. I wonder who does he plan to turn to help if he runs into trouble with the Russians in Syria or the black sea.



~

Lol

Me : ... ...

Random Israeli when he has no answer : SoRry i cAn oNLy deAL wiTh faCts n0t chEAp coNsPiraCy tHeoRies.

Then, Netenyahu : Iran have nukes, they will nuke us, US should stop Iran. Iran is the biggest threat. HEEEELP
 
Okkey. Some questions.

You also wanna talk about US backstabbings to Turkey ?
Do you have an idea how things come to this point ?
Do you think that being a trustworthy ally means only one-way road ?
Rhetorical questions.

Why do US choose militia-terrosist groups over his " Ally " in Syria against ISIS ?
Because Erdogan did not arm and train the Arabs, so US forced to arm and train Kurds against ISIS. In fact Erdogan himself helped in it.

Is arming a terrorist group which is a threat for you ally can be accepted ?
Its Russia who arms them.

Why the US keeps a terrorist " GÜLEN " which is a threat for your ally and doesn't send him back ?
Would an ally indirectly attempt to change an elected leader via coups ?
LOL. Childish Erdo propaganda.

Why the US didn't sell PATRIOTS when we asked to buy at first place ?
Thats biggest Erdogans lie.

Why doesn’t Turkey have its own Patriots?

1) Turkey first turned to Israel in 1997 for the Arrow missile system. The Arrow was designed specifically to intercept scuds, and is seen as better suited to Turkey’s defense needs than Patriot. In the early 2000s, the United States dropped its objections and joined the negotiations. The three sides eventually envisioned the joint development of a Turkish ballistic missile defense system with either Patriot or Arrow. The Turkish financial crisis eventually froze the discussions, though Israeli and Turkish officials did continue to hold some talks for missile defense sales.


2) The issue of missile defense popped up again during the negotiations for NATO’s new strategic concept. Turkey had been asked to host a missile defense radar at a U.S. military base in Kurecik. Ankara, which at the time was enjoying an uptick in relations with Iran, objected to the French backed proposal to include the Islamic Republic as a direct threat to the alliance. Turkey objected, arguing that NATO’s missile defense plans are defensive and not targeted at any country in particular. Ankara believes that isolating Iran empowers the hardliners and makes the idea of negotiated settlement to the nuclear issue less likely.


3) Shortly thereafter, Ankara announced that it was pursuing long range air defenses to be deployed in Ankara, Istanbul, and two other undisclosed locations. Turkey approached the United States’ Raytheon for the Patriot PAC-3, Russia’s Rosoboronexport for the S-300, China’s Precision Machinery Export Import Corp (CPMIEC) for the HQ9 FD-2000, and the Italian-French Eurosam for the SAMP/T Aster 30. Critically, Raytheon was not offering to transfer technology. Eurosam, on the other hand, was willing to transfer critical design information to Turkish defense contractors (Hold on to this for a second).

Information about the nature of the Russian deal is not available, though Turkey was hoping that Rosoboronexport would offer the S-400. NATO made clear that it preferred Turkey choose either the American or European system. Officials also made clear that if Turkey chose the Russian or Chinese system, Turkey’s missile defense could not be integrated into NATO’s missile defense system.

Surprisingly, Turkey cancelled the tender in 2012 and chose not to purchase any of the competitors missile systems. While the reason was never released, it appears likely that Ankara wanted access to the design information. Raytheon – which had always been rumored to have been Ankara’s number one choice – made clear that it was not willing to transfer technology. Raytheon’s terms likely included provisions to “black box” critical technologies. The fact that Turkey chose not to purchase missile defense at all – even though Eurosam was offering technology transfer – suggests that Ankara was intent on Patriot from the outset, but wanted to try and force Raytheon to make a concessions.

https://turkeywonk.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/why-doesnt-turkey-have-its-own-patriots/

Bottom line:

1) US never refused to sell Patriots, although they did refuse technological transfer.
2) Israel and Europeans offered technological transfer as well but Erdogan still chose the S-400.
 
Rhetorical questions.


Because Erdogan did not arm and train the Arabs, so US forced to arm and train Kurds against ISIS. In fact Erdogan himself helped in it.


Its Russia who arms them.


LOL. Childish Erdo propaganda.


Thats biggest Erdogans lie.

Why doesn’t Turkey have its own Patriots?

1) Turkey first turned to Israel in 1997 for the Arrow missile system. The Arrow was designed specifically to intercept scuds, and is seen as better suited to Turkey’s defense needs than Patriot. In the early 2000s, the United States dropped its objections and joined the negotiations. The three sides eventually envisioned the joint development of a Turkish ballistic missile defense system with either Patriot or Arrow. The Turkish financial crisis eventually froze the discussions, though Israeli and Turkish officials did continue to hold some talks for missile defense sales.


2) The issue of missile defense popped up again during the negotiations for NATO’s new strategic concept. Turkey had been asked to host a missile defense radar at a U.S. military base in Kurecik. Ankara, which at the time was enjoying an uptick in relations with Iran, objected to the French backed proposal to include the Islamic Republic as a direct threat to the alliance. Turkey objected, arguing that NATO’s missile defense plans are defensive and not targeted at any country in particular. Ankara believes that isolating Iran empowers the hardliners and makes the idea of negotiated settlement to the nuclear issue less likely.


3) Shortly thereafter, Ankara announced that it was pursuing long range air defenses to be deployed in Ankara, Istanbul, and two other undisclosed locations. Turkey approached the United States’ Raytheon for the Patriot PAC-3, Russia’s Rosoboronexport for the S-300, China’s Precision Machinery Export Import Corp (CPMIEC) for the HQ9 FD-2000, and the Italian-French Eurosam for the SAMP/T Aster 30. Critically, Raytheon was not offering to transfer technology. Eurosam, on the other hand, was willing to transfer critical design information to Turkish defense contractors (Hold on to this for a second).

Information about the nature of the Russian deal is not available, though Turkey was hoping that Rosoboronexport would offer the S-400. NATO made clear that it preferred Turkey choose either the American or European system. Officials also made clear that if Turkey chose the Russian or Chinese system, Turkey’s missile defense could not be integrated into NATO’s missile defense system.

Surprisingly, Turkey cancelled the tender in 2012 and chose not to purchase any of the competitors missile systems. While the reason was never released, it appears likely that Ankara wanted access to the design information. Raytheon – which had always been rumored to have been Ankara’s number one choice – made clear that it was not willing to transfer technology. Raytheon’s terms likely included provisions to “black box” critical technologies. The fact that Turkey chose not to purchase missile defense at all – even though Eurosam was offering technology transfer – suggests that Ankara was intent on Patriot from the outset, but wanted to try and force Raytheon to make a concessions.

https://turkeywonk.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/why-doesnt-turkey-have-its-own-patriots/

Bottom line:

1) US never refused to sell Patriots, although they did refuse technological transfer.
2) Israel and Europeans offered technological transfer as well but Erdogan still chose the S-400.


I am pretty sure you are not that stupid to believe what you say. PYD/YPG is a branch of PKK which already recognised as terrorist org. by everyone including the Usa. We offered them to step on field and finish ISIS with air support from the Usa. They refused. But they choose to train and arm YPG in order to stay in Syria by using them in long term. Even they changed their name to SDF, Syrian Democratic Forces, which sounds like more good men.

Here is the confessions of US lawmakers and generals.



Now YPG holds Us made ATGMs, weapons, Humwees etc. You can just google them as you google and post wordpress websites as a source.

Btw, Turkey run a project with Italia/France about an air defence systems apart from S-400 and SIPER indigenous systems. Turkey has a clear doctrine when buying weapons, co-production or ToT options. Otherwise Turkey has no obligation to buy PATRIOT no matter what. If they don't want to share, we find someone else who shares. And already found. Usa should deal with it.

You call everything lies and propaganda all day long but the fight of Turkey to be fully independent will continue at all cost.
 
I am pretty sure you are not that stupid to believe what you say. PYD/YPG is a branch of PKK which already recognised as terrorist org. by everyone including the Usa. We offered them to step on field and finish ISIS with air support from the Usa. They refused. But they choose to train and arm YPG in order to stay in Syria by using them in long term. Even they changed their name to SDF, Syrian Democratic Forces, which sounds like more good men.

Here is the confessions of US lawmakers and generals.


You dont need permission from US to act. When you took Al Bab and Afrin u did not ask permission from US.

Problem is that Erdogan did NOTHING between 2011 to 2014.

When Assad slaughtered rebels for years he did nothing
When ISIS grew he did nothing.

With little arms supplies to rebels in 2011-2012 they would take whole north of Syria and ISIS would not even appear. Controlling north Turkey would dictate conditions to Russia and Iran. Now Erdogan is forced to beg Putin to do something in Syria.

Now YPG holds Us made ATGMs, weapons, Humwees etc. You can just google them as you google and post wordpress websites as a source.
Russian MANDADS and ATGM were used against Turkey, not US.

Btw, Turkey run a project with Italia/France about an air defence systems apart from S-400 and SIPER indigenous systems. Turkey has a clear doctrine when buying weapons, co-production or ToT options. Otherwise Turkey has no obligation to buy PATRIOT no matter what. If they don't want to share, we find someone else who shares. And already found. Usa should deal with it.

You call everything lies and propaganda all day long but the fight of Turkey to be fully independent will continue at all cost.
You made a claim that US refused to sell Patriots to Turkey. It was false.

As for technologies u could get from Israel and Europe. Arrow-2 is far more advanced system than rebranded S-300 called S-400. I am not talking about Arrow-3.
 
Russian MANDADS and ATGM were used against Turkey, not US.

Turkish forces captured wide variant of US made guns, weapons from PKK terrorists. Weapons sent to YPG for ISIS ended up in their hands. How? Simple... They are the same. They did and will use them against Turkish army again. There is no way they can control those weapons.

Shortly; Our beloved "ally" armed to teeth the enemy of his "ally".

5_3086.jpg


Captured US made weapons from PKK. How many of them you can recognise?

You dont need permission from US to act. When you took Al Bab and Afrin u did not ask permission from US

It's not about asking the permission. If there is a fight, first you call your friend. Not the enemy of your friend. We proposed them to fight together. Told them just to support from air and conduct a joint operation. They rejected this.

Because the US had another interests other than defeating ISIS. Everybody already knows what's going on. So better don't play the fool.

US general strategy to settle on somewhere ;

- Create the threat... A terrorist organization etc.
- Create a negative world-wide public opinion agaisnt it via media tools...
- Take your group with you. Nato, Uk, France, locals militias..
- Fight the evil that you created. Be hero.
- Create conditions to stay there for long term...
...
...
...
List goes on according to main goal...
 
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