Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

[JustHappened]

How many Leo's and how many Sabras do we have in Syria? The number of Leo's outnumber the number of Sabras. Of course more will be hit and damaged, and yes no one denies the fact that the M60T Sabra has better armour than the Leopard 2A4, but the Leopard 2A4 is not as bad as you claim it to be.

people have been claiming we have lost Bzaah, jets bombarding Bzaah atm. Firefights in the town.

It is not my claim, it is an analysis from different sources I quoted.
Nobody can say Turkey lost territory in Syria, it is right to say there are sometimes tactical withdrawal of FSA who is the main manpower there.
After El-BAB , as President Erdogan said M4 could be the line between SAA and FSA. Turkey could move towards Menbic. I hope that YPG will withdraw from Menbic. They need SDF forces in Rakka. Rakka will be a fierce battle, cause it is the last hope DAESH terrorists.
Let's wait and see, there are also some critical developments in Aegean and East Mediterranean.


Last update

M1117 Guardian Armored Security Vehicle

The US has for the first time supplied Guardian M117 armored vehicles to the Syrian Arab Coalition (SAC), a grouping of anti-Assad and Anti-ISIS forces, Voice of America reported quoting a spokesman for U.S. Central Command.

The SAC is an Arab fighting force within the multi-ethnic, but predominantly Kurdish, Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF).

The Guardians are highly maneuverable and capable of carrying 10 soldiers each - will help SAC forces better “withstand explosive devices and small-arms fire," VOA further quoted a US Army spokesperson.

“The Syrian Arab Coalition is getting ready to continue their operations to isolate Raqqa," the spokesperson said. "As they approach the city and get into tough fighting, this capability is going to increase their survivability."

Each Guardian is equipped with machine guns and a grenade launcher.

Multiple U.S. defense officials said the delivery had “been in the works for months” and was carried out under authority granted during the Obama administration.

“There is no change to current policy by providing support to the Syrian Arab coalition,” Meyer said.

Washington has supplied the SDF with light weapons and special-forces advisers in the past and has provided air support against Islamic State fighters.

An estimated 20,000 SDF fighters are connected to the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG), which Turkey considers a terrorist group. Even though the U.S. insists it only delivers military aid to the Arab fighters of the SDF, the assistance nonetheless has angered U.S. ally Turkey.

 

[OguzSenturk]

We don't provide CAS to our troops/or allied troops on the ground, lost Bzaa again. F16s passes above with 100s of mph, hit the known targets in the city we lost and go back to their airbase. Where is CAS?

 

[JustHappened]

EuphratesShield After 3 ISIS's SVBIED, FSA did not retreat from Bzaah and controls east of Bzaah.


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A Turkish military convoy containing dozens of TSK armoured vehicles entered Azaz through Bab al-Salame border crossing today and is now deployed in Kaljibreen likely preparing a new round against the SDF/YPG, Aleppo Governorate, Syria.

.................

SABRA - T survived at Manastir at EL- BAB - no casualties except noise travma

 

[Vergennes]

What did you expect ? The Leopard 2A4 isn't suited for urban warfare nor assymetrical warfare. It was more developed for countering a Soviet assault on Europe. During its development,German engineers sought the right compromise between firepower,protection and mobility,reason they opted for strenghtening the tank's front armor as they had to resist frontal impacts.
But the 2A4 has weaknesses such as its poor armor on the flanks and in the back of the turrets,which ISIS fighters well understood,reason they mostly target these areas with modern Russian anti-tanks missiles.

One of the concern is that,unlike the latest versions of the German tank,the Turkish Leopards do not have active protection systems nor reactive armor,which reduces the effects of the impacts.

There are other reasons for Turkish army's tank losses,such as the lack of experience/training of the crews and the lack of a clear doctrine of use of MBTs in urban combat.

 

[JustHappened]

One of the concern is that,unlike the latest versions of the German tank,the Turkish Leopards do not have active protection systems nor reactive armor,which reduces the effects of the impacts.

There are other reasons for Turkish army's tank losses,such as the lack of experience/training of the crews and the lack of a clear doctrine of use of MBTs in urban combat.

Agree with you. German Leo's has no active protection systems up to now, it is from 2003 and not hard kill .

 

[Babur Han]

We don't provide CAS to our troops/or allied troops on the ground, lost Bzaa again. F16s passes above with 100s of mph, hit the known targets in the city we lost and go back to their airbase. Where is CAS?

TurAF lack sophisticated CAS Aircraft like the A-10 or SU-25, the Fighter - Bomber and multirole Fighter Jets are not are not specialy designed for this Role. Also TurAF lack Gunships like the AC-130 which can loiter over the Area and can give the enemy a deadly Punch with Variety of Bombs and Guns. Also Drones like the MQ-9 Reaper are sophisticatet to give CAS in an asymetric Envirement.

For the CAS Aircraft, we can wait until Hurkus C enter serial Production and as far I know under Gören Project two C-130 E will be modified to Gunships. For real CAS Aircraft we need to modify T-X as a light Combat and ground Support Aircraft.

 

[JustHappened]

It seems like a political agreement our F4-2020 are actual CAS capable and can patrol with air refuelling.

We should discuss about Close Air Support or Close Combat attack ?

You know for sure Greece has and had A-7 in storage.

Naval aircraft such as the A-1 Skyraider, the A-7D Corsair, and the F-4 Phantom platforms purpose built for close air support

dtic.........mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a570047.pdf

 

[Babur Han]

It seems like a political agreement our F4-2020 are actual CAS capable and can patrol with air refuelling.

We should discuss about about Close Air Support or Close Combat attack ?

You know for sure Greece has and had A-7 in storage.

Naval aircraft such as the A-1 Skyraider, the A-7D Corsair, and the F-4 Phantom platforms purpose built for close air support

dtic.........mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a570047.pdf

It is more than CAS alone to discuss beginning from CAS, our Tanks, armoured Infantry Fighting Vehicles, light Artillery, logistics and many more...

 

[OguzSenturk]

T-129s can easily give cas, even super cobras can. It seems like problem is related to commandership than lack of platform/capability.

 

[JustHappened]

problem is related to commandership

Agree to you. But it has passed. Türkiye had the chance to get some A-10s. But nothing happened.
Please don't compare attack helicopters with gunships as A-7 was and A-10 soon is.
I believe here are existing experts who could explain us why there is no realtime CAS.

From foxtrotalpha :

A-7 Corsair II known as the SLUF. ( Mini A-10)
or Short Little Ugly Fucker. Armored pilot cockpit.

Greece always prized the jet for its incredibly long range (it could self-deploy across the Atlantic), reliability, massive bomb carrying ability, and incredible stability as a low altitude penetration and bombing platform. This led to the jet's indigenous motto:

"Fly low and strike hard."

As for the future of the Hellenic Air Force without the A-7, shrinking budgets and multi-role obsolescence were driving factors in retiring the design, although some would argue a highly upgraded A-7 has more of a home over the actual battlefields of today than a pointy-nosed, fuel thirsty F-16 or Mirage 2000. Nonetheless, the 336th squadron that flew the Corsairs will receive a portion of its sisters squadron's block 52+ F-16s, which are some of the most advanced of their kind in the world today.
The A-7 introduced the heads up display (HUD), enhanced navigational automation (waypoint autopilot, moving map displays etc) and cockpit ergonomics that were further refined in the F-16. Still, even with the Viper's advanced sensors and weaponry, high thrust to weight ratio and agility, it can't compare to an A-7 loaded with ten thousands pounds of bombs hustling through the countryside down low in the weeds.
Nor it can ever come close to meeting the SLUF's endurance, even when fitted with conformal fuel tanks and under-wing drop tanks.


Air refuel capable.

 

[Babur Han]

T-129s can easily give cas, even super cobras can. It seems like problem is related to commandership than lack of platform/capability.

My Post about CAS was regarding the Airforce, not the Army ! The T-129 B1 Model does lack some self Protection and EW Capabillity which will be Standard by the B2 Model. Here is the Threat of risking our brand new T-129 and their Crews getting shot down by Manpads from ISIS.

 

[JustHappened]

lack some self Protection and EW Capabillity

Same for Hürkuş.
Now we all can see how important it is to upgrade so called "old"weapons !
Improvisation must go parallel to innovation and development

 

[HannibalBarca]

Unconfirmed: Many guys near al-bab reported that a Turkish heli crashed/down few hours back . still unclear.

 

[JustHappened]

Many guys

Please, source

 

[T-123456]

Unconfirmed: Many guys near al-bab reported that a Turkish heli crashed/down few hours back . still unclear.

Yes,they are talking about a Sikorsky helicopter.