Turkish Navy and PM to accompany more aid ships to Gaza

[Meengla]

I think this is a pure publicity stunt. He wants to get popular world wide, look now all international news channels must be streaming this as a breaking news.

This issue could have been dealt in a better way. Anyway just let sit back and watch as the story unfolds

'Pure publicity stunt'?! A stunt which is going to put Turkey in the radar of the very powerful forces unleashed since 9/11 to portray everything as 'War Against Terrorism'? A stunt which is very likely to at least delay Turkish EU membership. A stunt which is going to hurt Turkish economy, or at least its tourism (about half a million Israelis alone go to Turkey each year) by portraying Turkey as another Iran? A stunt which can eventually be a trigger for Israel's implants in the West to diplomatically corner Turkey over Kurdistan and the Armenian question?

I think not. This is not a stunt at all.

Turkey is waking up to this true roots which were always in the East. Only a sliver of Turkey lies in Europe. Only a few decades separate the now-Kemalist Turkey to its Ottoman Empire. And few decades of policy changes do not make tens of millions to forget their true 'roots'.

Turkey gains a lot by following its instinct to be close to the East. It may well one day regain its lost prestige AND, as a byproduct, vast business contracts by 'turning East'. The Arabs 'streat', which is pro-Turkey these days, will one day become Arab official voice. And Turkey does not have to become a nation of public-floggings and beheadings like Iran is today to be a Muslim democratic country. Only some self-centered Turkish generals sipping vodka would be paranoid enough to stop the Turkish march to independence and prominence.

 

[Materialistic]

In my opinion, Turkey is going for the right thing at the right time.

Currently, Israel has distant itself from major European countries + Canada, Australia and to a very small extent US(in short all of nato countries). And already US media is talking about Israel distancing itself from Washington and there is a feeling going on in US media (namely CNN) that Washington won't be able to go more ahead with Israel if Israel will further put this alliance to test.

So, in such a case if anything happens, it would be stupid to blame Turkey by saying that it deserved an aggression from Israel just because Turkish PM went to help Gaza with peaceful intentions (of course Turkish navy is there to handle any adventures by Israel but not for aggression).

And European nations along with Aussies would support Turkey over Israel since they are already protesting through every possible way they can on Mossad's killing of Hamas Leader and illegal usage of passports.

Few days back, UN or US pushed for sanctions on Israel if it doesn't provide its Nuclear warheads to UN or something. (i don't have the link currently).

On top of that, West also sees Turkey as a more liberal Muslim country and its existence irritates them far lesser than other Muslim country, So the current international political environment seems to be more in favor of Turkey.

 

[LegionnairE]

Thnx. I can conclude that Israel is not a national security threat to Turkey.

Israel is far away from being a national security threat to Turkey. They must expand their navy but i doubt they have enough human resources to do it...

 

[FreekiN]

"Israel fights back on Youtube"

How ******* pathetic.

"Knives and poles" ? "Abandon reason"

Who the **** brought automatic weapons onto the boat? WHO KILLED 9 PEOPLE?

Go **** yourself, seriously.

There were Holocaust survivors and a Nobel Peace prize winner on those boats. I wonder if they also took part in beating up that soldier.

 

[Meengla]

Nonsense. No one support anyone unconditionally. We all support someone based upon certain criteria or characters that overrode any flaws he may have. That mental calculus indicate conditional support.

History is full of national follies and it is quite conceivable that Americans--who should not be in the dire financial straits considering the enormous natural resources and relative geographical isolation--have been suffering because of various 'lobbies'.
But not other Lobby hurts America more than the money-lobby of Pro-Israelis; this Lobby gives a politician what he/she wants more: Winning a seat in the Congress or losing it--as a few have who were brave enough.

Here is an article by another Jew. Unlike you some of you (perhaps a lot with dual Israeli-American citizenship), Mr. Rosenberg truly loves Israel and Jews and I admire him for both and for his love of justice.

Read on. The excerpt below is the most thought-provoking part of Rosenberg's article. Bolded part by me.

MJ Rosenberg: Glenn Beck's Israel Problem

Is there anyone who can possibly make the case that America benefits from being the only country in the entire world that endorsed the Israeli attack on the flotilla? Does it make sense that the center-left American government backed it while the center-right British government condemned it? (It does make a certain sense, but only in the context of the financing of political campaigns.)

 

[gambit]

Israel is far away from being a national security threat to Turkey. They must expand their navy but i doubt they have enough human resources to do it...

While distance alone can reduce the possibility of being such a threat, with modern weapons, any country can be such a threat. The questions here are why would Israel WANT to make herself such a threat? For what purpose? Towards what goal? Does Turkey view Israel as such a threat? Does Turkey want to? For what purpose? Towards what goal? We are talking about at the moment of Israel's political creation. Between then and now of course the political landscape and currents have changed but there must be a prime cause for a hostile attitude between nations. I have yet to see any credible explanation regarding that prime cause as to why does Iran is so hostile to the Jewish state.

 

[gambit]

History is full of national follies and it is quite conceivable that Americans--who should not be in the dire financial straits considering the enormous natural resources and relative geographical isolation--have been suffering because of various 'lobbies'.
But not other Lobby hurts America more than the money-lobby of Pro-Israelis; this Lobby gives a politician what he/she wants more: Winning a seat in the Congress or losing it--as a few have who were brave enough.

Here is an article by another Jew. Unlike you some of you (perhaps a lot with dual Israeli-American citizenship), Mr. Rosenberg truly loves Israel and Jews and I admire him for both and for his love of justice.

Read on. The excerpt below is the most thought-provoking part of Rosenberg's article. Bolded part by me.

MJ Rosenberg: Glenn Beck's Israel Problem

You are avoiding the original charge, which is that the US support Israel 'unconditionally'. That is not true. No one ever does. You are a flawed person. You have some personality traits or even character defects that may be offensive and repulsive to some, tolerable to others, and simply minor to others. So the question is why do some 'others' find you worthy of their friendship and loyalty despite these differences? The reasons could be familial, national or ethnic bonds. No different for nation-states. The more in common nation-states have with each other, the more aligned their interests, the greater their flaws are overlooked and this is how political alliances are created. This is clearly a very conditional approach to support.

 

[Meengla]

You are avoiding the original charge, which is that the US support Israel 'unconditionally'. That is not true. No one ever does. You are a flawed person. You have some personality traits or even character defects that may be offensive and repulsive to some, tolerable to others, and simply minor to others. So the question is why do some 'others' find you worthy of their friendship and loyalty despite these differences? The reasons could be familial, national or ethnic bonds. No different for nation-states. The more in common nation-states have with each other, the more aligned their interests, the greater their flaws are overlooked and this is how political alliances are created. This is clearly a very conditional approach to support.

Yes, the bolded part I agree with fully. I think 'morality' is often a camouflage for our intrinsic association with someone we view as our closest ethnic/religious biases. And hence you will see a vast number of American Jewish -in the media- supporting Israel and this forum is obviously very pro Palestinian and pro Turkey.

I see history as a struggle for resources. We fight ostensibly for ideological reasons but deep down--however hidden or deep--we know which side will eventually be good for our own 'material' gains. Marx is still correct scientifically even if Soviet Union died. Though I am not a Marxist at all in a political sense.

Coming back to some specifics: I think you should be honest enough to acknowledge that Israelis and their overseas supporters often call themselves as the 'outpost of the West' in the Middle East. And yet, more and more, it is only the American Congress and the Evangelical Christians who unquesntionalty support Israel. Western Europe is not less 'Western' than United States. And, contrary to the Islamo-phobia that many subscribe to, Western Europe, on the whole, has its Muslim community in far lesser numbers and influence than is portrayed as.

I am convinced that it is the hijacking of American political system and of American media by very powerful and rich Americans of mostly Jewish origin who have managed to manipulate American policy that Israel's favor. And Rosenberg, as I post above, is but one source. I want you and others to look up Stephen Waltz and John Mearsheimer (spp?) and their brilliant theses that it is the Israeli Lobby which continues to push Americans toward policies which are often not good for Israel AND America.

I am not dodging any questions. You, on the other hand, is too tied in some narrative of Islamophobia and the War between Civilizations. There are plenty in 'the West' you will find--many Jews as well--who know the dangers associated with pushing 1.5 billion Muslims to an ideological war where NO ONE will 'win'.

 

[sraja]

Turkey is going to do this, turkey is going to do that...All bluffs...No action....

At the end of day, nothing is going to happen.

If Islamist government of Turkey cuts off relations with Israel, Turkey and its people will be the loser. Turkey will lose all the sophisticated technologies Israel could offer in various fields. Turkey will remain militarily backward.

It is the time for Secular Turkish Army to kick out this islamist government and restore secularism in Turkey. More islamization by Ergoden government will take Turkey more backward.

 

[sraja]

Who the **** brought automatic weapons onto the boat? WHO KILLED 9 PEOPLE?

Who has beaten the soldier and initiated the conflict ?

Look at this vid,

Were they really peace activists or terrorists masquerading as peace activists ?

 

[FreekiN]

Who has beaten the soldier and initiated the conflict ?

Look at this vid,

Gaza flotilla participants invoked killing of Jews

Were they really peace activists or terrorists masquerading as peace activists ?

Thats literally the most retarded thing i've ever heard.

The people on the flotilla had every right to defend themselves with whatever was available. Israel's bogus claim of 'knives' has been busted. They killed 9 people who were defending themselves. The whole world knows it. Case closed.

 

[sraja]

The people on the flotilla had every right to defend themselves with whatever was available.

Defend themselves even before they were physically attacked ?

Stop bullshitting man !

 

[below_freezing]

Defend themselves even before they were physically attacked ?

Stop bullshitting man !

Seems like Indians are too used to being beaten and killed by their own Brahmin police to think independently.

 

[sraja]

Seems like Indians are too used to being beaten and killed by their own Brahmin police to think independently.

Stop talking nonsense.

By the way, How is Chinese ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Tibetans going on XinXiang and Tibet ?

 

[below_freezing]

Stop talking nonsense.

By the way, How is Chinese ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Tibetans going on XinXiang and Tibet ?

Obviously not going well enough considering that the Tibetan population has been increasing since 1950 and muslims in xinjiang are less than 10% of all muslims in china.

how are muslims doing in india? still being slaughtered worse than palestinians by israelis?