Turkish Naval Programs

[xenon54 out]

SSM: Savunma Sanayi Müsteşarlığı: Undersecretariat for Defence Industries

So there are 16x Savunma Sanayi Müsteşarlığı's on our TF-2000?

 

[Zarvan]

SSM: Savunma Sanayi Müsteşarlığı: Undersecretariat for Defence Industries

RAM: Rolling Airframe Missile

VLS: Vertical Launching System

And Are these both Anti Ship Missile or refer to Anti ship Missile ?

 

[xxxKULxxx]

And Are these both Anti Ship Missile or refer to Anti ship Missile ?

VLS is launcher RAM is missile... Why don't you google it?..

So there are 16x Savunma Sanayi Müsteşarlığı's on our TF-2000?

lol... i didn't look previous posts... I thought it is Savunma Sanayi Müsteşarlığı... ehehe...

Ok... Again...

SSM: Surface to Surface Missile...

 

[-SINAN-]

Some recent news i heard about Large Cavitation Tunnel , will be built in one of our institutes,
the project is going ahead and it seems conceptual design phase is done, agreed a company for establishing. and foreseen date for its completion talked as 2018 ( might be not active service date )
Its kind of a test tunnel, where propellers can be tested, also scaled model of ships , or even missiles and planes in supersonic range might be done. i assume this will lead more projects in these aspects.
this will be the first LARGE water tunnel built in Turkey, and its a system owned by developed and some developing countries (excluding exUSSR and influenced countries)
( i have got these informations from Msc thesis , graduation thesis and some reliable people i talked from corresponding institute ,currently details are kept as secret by SSM )

How are you going to test missiles and planes in a cavitation tunnel ? Medium is different...

 

[Asena_Y]

Please elaborate what SSM and RAM and VLS stand for ? @Kaan

RIM-116 and Atmaca anti-ship missile

 

[ANMDT]

How are you going to test missiles and planes in a cavitation tunnel ? Medium is different...

planes and missiles tested in air tunnels,but when the matter is supersonic speed behaviour, you have no chance to simulate it with air, so the option is going for more intense fluid, water (1000 times intense than air) . behaviour of objects in fluid compared with Reynold numbers, Speed x chracteristic length / kinematic viscosity is what means for Re, and For 40 F temperature air has K.viscosity of 1.46E-4, water has1.664E-5 ,this means you can conduct same test with 1/10 speed that needed in air tunner.
Here is referance for it , you might look that paper because its about one of the 1st Large cavitaiton tunnel in world established in David Taylor Model Basin

"Since the advent of practical high speed prime movers late in the
last century, the problems of the designer concerned with the motion of solid
bodies through water have been ever increasing whether they be with respect
to ship hulls, rotating blades, or the extreme speeds encountered with aircraftlaunched
or jet-driven ordnance bodies." Ripken J.F., Design Studies For a Closed-Jet Water Tunnel. 1951 ,University of Minnesota.

Ok it was my mistake to mention "supersonic" its just high speed ,for supersonic ones i will look some more sources.

 

[eagleeye]

I fear from this design. I do appreciate all the engineers who designed but it seems like there's 0 taste of strategy.

Afterburners of the missiles at that VLS stationed at the back of the deck will harm the PESA radar's scanner which is just in front of it. It's truly not a good idea.

And most importantly, having all the firepower at the Position A (nose side platforms of a ship) is another fail. There seem to be 5x 16-cell Mk41 VLS'. Having 80 missiles (at least 30 of them will be LACMs), a RIM-116 RAM, 127mm cannon and it's ammo will be at the Position A. It means hell amount of weight at the front.

I don't think they will go for that design in excat. DZKK will ask them to reposition the armament.

(neptune)

Guys we have seen it before by other project . this is not the final design . we will see many changes regarding design weapons and size. we should wait for the detail design.

 

[ANMDT]

Hull test and water modelling of Milgem

ITU water tunnel

Cabatli , this is Model Towing tank, testing with wave generator or by towing, there is a small cavitation tunnel, also circulation tunnel ,if you look carefully in 2nd picture on the right side.
And name of Test Basin is "Ata Nutku Model Test Basin or Laboratory"
Water tunnel is something like ;

its a small one for sure, large ones goes up to 30 m in length, 3 meter diameter in test section, "on above side of tunnel the contracted part"

Here is a large one seriously this is cavitation tunnel in Germany ;

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Also as Babur Han mentioned there is Laser CIWS too...

TÜBİTAK Desteğiyle İlk Kez Yerli Lazer Silahı Geliştirilecek | TÜRKİYE BİLİMSEL ve TEKNOLOJİK ARAŞTIRMA KURUMU

1007 - Yüksek Güçlü Lazer Silah Sistemi Geliştirilmesi | TÜRKİYE BİLİMSEL ve TEKNOLOJİK ARAŞTIRMA KURUMU

 

[-SINAN-]

planes and missiles tested in air tunnels,but when the matter is supersonic speed behaviour, you have no chance to simulate it with air, so the option is going for more intense fluid, water (1000 times intense than air) . behaviour of objects in fluid compared with Reynold numbers, Speed x chracteristic length / kinematic viscosity is what means for Re, and For 40 F temperature air has K.viscosity of 1.46E-4, water has1.664E-5 ,this means you can conduct same test with 1/10 speed that needed in air tunner.
Here is referance for it , you might look that paper because its about one of the 1st Large cavitaiton tunnel in world established in David Taylor Model Basin
"Since the advent of practical high speed prime movers late in the
last century, the problems of the designer concerned with the motion of solid
bodies through water have been ever increasing whether they be with respect
to ship hulls, rotating blades, or the extreme speeds encountered with aircraftlaunched
or jet-driven ordnance bodies." Ripken J.F., Design Studies For a Closed-Jet Water Tunnel. 1951 ,University of Minnesota.
Ok it was my mistake to mention "supersonic" its just high speed ,for supersonic ones i will look some more sources.

Nice idea. using denser fluids to conduct such experiment.

What is your major ?

 

[ANMDT]

Naval Architecture, thats why i know this all

 

[-SINAN-]

Naval Architecture, thats why i know this all

I know, Fluid Dynamics and worked with CFDesign..( in University years...., most of them are forgotten now ) but i can follow you.

But i didn't understand why you have shown kinematic viscosity, Re number ?

Don't you work with Cd " Drag coefficient"... that all the matters as far as i know. Re number, Viscosity, Density are all sub-parameters of Cd.

Also as Babur Han mentioned there is Laser CIWS too...

TÜBİTAK Desteğiyle İlk Kez Yerli Lazer Silahı Geliştirilecek | TÜRKİYE BİLİMSEL ve TEKNOLOJİK ARAŞTIRMA KURUMU

1007 - Yüksek Güçlü Lazer Silah Sistemi Geliştirilmesi | TÜRKİYE BİLİMSEL ve TEKNOLOJİK ARAŞTIRMA KURUMU

Mate, what do we know about Tubitak SAVTAG ?

Are there any finalized projects from SAVTAG... i don't remember any .... ?

 

[ANMDT]

I know, Fluid Dynamics and worked with CFDesign..( in University years most of them are forgotten ) but i can follow you.

But i didn't understand why you have shown kinematic viscosity, Re number ?

Don't you work with Cd " Drag coefficient"... that all the matters as far as i know. Re number, Viscosity, Density are all sub-parameters of Cd.

Reynold number is important to make a relation between model and full scale (also the Froude number is important too). i considered only in matter of Re number, when the viscosity changed, the needed speed is lowered too, instead of 900 knots of air, 90 knots of water flow is adequate . But as the model scale changes, the speed is lowered somehow due to coupling with satisfy of Froude number ( getting confused, i didnt want to go in froude number ) .. So basicly i make and approach from Re to show required speed is lower.

We work with Ct but its derived from model tests, or CFD as well . But people still goes for model test and to scale results to full scale, you need to make a relation from Re and Fr Numbers
We work with lift coefficient too, fin stabilizers, rudders are lifting components .
My interest is mosly structural, fluids are things i am weak in., hope i could explain it.

 

[-SINAN-]

Reynold number is important to make a relation between model and full scale (also the Froude number is important too). i considered only in matter of Re number, when the viscosity changed, the needed speed is lowered too, instead of 900 knots of air, 90 knots of water flow is adequate . But as the model scale changes, the speed is lowered somehow due to coupling with satisfy of Froude number ( getting confused, i didnt want to go in froude number ) .. So basicly i make and approach from Re to show required speed is lower.

We work with Ct but its derived from model tests, or CFD as well . But people still goes for model test and to scale results to full scale, you need to make a relation from Re and Fr Numbers
We work with lift coefficient too, fin stabilizers, rudders are lifting components .
My interest is mosly structural, fluids are things i am weak in., hope i could explain it.

It' interesting that air and water can behave same in some speeds.

Mate, last question... where is your actual location ? Are you working in Turkey ?

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Mate, what do we know about Tubitak SAVTAG ?

Are there any finalized projects from SAVTAG... i don't remember any .... ?

Come on man... It is TÜBİTAK indeed...