Turkish LHD Program | News & Discusions

[Bubblegum Crisis]

@Bubblegum Crisis

• Tiger Max. takeoff weight: 6,000 kg (13,000 lb)
• F-35B Max. takeoff weight: 27,500 kg (60,000 lb)

Mistral's and Australia's Juan Carlos class LHDs are not capable to conduct operation with F-35Bs due to their weak flight decks.

Australia Not To Operate F-35B Fighters For LHDs

Both the LHDs will still require modifications that include new hear resistant deck treatments, approach landing aids and modifications to the ships’ aviation fuel storage to accommodate F-35Bs.

The "super heavy" helicopters like the American "Sikorsky CH-53 Sea Stallion" can land on the Mistral.

Sikorsky CH-53 Sea Stallion

Max. takeoff weight : 19 100 kg


F-35B

Empty weight : 14 700 kg
Internal fuel : 6 045 kg
With armament : 19 000 kg
External armament : 6 800 kg of weapons on 6 pylons
Max takeoff weight : 27 300 kg

You are not forced to load maximally fuel and in heavy weapons under the wings. You must find the best compromise according interressant tasks you will perform. This is why especially exists conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) or aerial refueling.

New hear resistant deck treatments : It will not be a huge problem just simply it will coated with “Thermion, a new product composed of aluminum and ceramic” that are bonded together by heat at application to form a very smooth and tough heat-resistant coating. Like the navy will do on his very olds USS Wasp LHD. If one day we are equipping F-35B.

And in a few tens of years when you (Turkey) have mastered the science of aircraft carrier, you will provide us.


Turkish first LHD TCG ANADOLU with ToT






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[Saithan]

Relax, it was just a speculation, which you'd understand if you read it carefully once more, no need to go into crisis over that.

Sooner or later LHD, AC and the sort will become obsolete, if you can't imagine a time like that then you're the past, not the future. Perhaps US, France and Britain has already cooked up something new that we don't know of.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Relax, it was just a speculation, which you'd understand if you read it carefully once more, no need to go into crisis over that.

Sooner or later LHD, AC and the sort will become obsolete, if you can't imagine a time like that then you're the past, not the future. Perhaps US, France and Britain has already cooked up something new that we don't know of.

Aircraft carrier also ?

With this. No problem just after (5 minutes) beginning Nuclear warfare and End Of The World


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[Neptune]

I mean seriously how old are the members here like 12?
A lot of people are throwing around words like LHD and F35B together without knowing what they actually mean, I suggest you do some research before hand

Egypt also bought FREMM from France and has a programme to develop further
Blueberet no need for bias posting

So basically reading out Wikipedia and some technical terms related with USMC's seaborne formation whom are also likely to have been taken from Wiki, makes someone "unbiased"? That's the question you should ask yourself first before recklessly commenting on my posts.

Do you knew what a LHD/LHA is?

It's used for marine expeditionary unit or MEU

Yes for the US Navy. But the navies that have amphibious assault ships plan the mission of these ships upon their doctrines. Not the way US uses them. Some are ampihibious assault oriented as much as others are multi-purpose with combining naval combat aviation depending on the country's foreign policy implement and threat assesment.

You need refueling, rearming, storage and heat resistant flight deck as well as new operating procedure

Mixing rotary and fixed wing on a single unit is no kids play

A lot of people are throwing around words like LHD and F35B together without knowing what they actually mean, I suggest you do some research before hand

Well, I suggest you to do some reserach on Egypt's GDP, it's naval capabilities and especially it's logistical capabilities which were all included on our studies for neighbouring navies.

Egypt also bought FREMM from France and has a programme to develop further

And F35B can be used from any flat deck it does not necessary require a ski jump so that can work with Mistral class too,

This is not a comparison but facts

Without a ski-jump/CATOBAR F-35B needs at least 550ft lenght of runway to operate functionally. With ski-jump (Turkey's variant) this distance is 450 ft. Mistral-class is capable of operating F-35B for takeoff lenght wise. Do we know wether it's flight deck is blast-resistant and capable to prevent FDOs? Or is her air traffic management are also Russian made sub systems which will make the interoperability to the level zero?

Aquiring FREMMs along with Mistrals does excatly mean that you either have shitload of logistics concerning the GDP of Egypt or KSA will also pay for it's maintainance and operational use. That's what I had pointed out here many times.

plus Egypt bought both LHD units Turkey so far has one, meaning Egypt can always have one deployed at any time while other is in maintenance or work up and Egypt is by far the most capable Arab nation

I doubt that, I don't want to go off topic but simply they can't.

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Egypt has 3 battalions "Marine Commandos".

"The 153d Commando Group has three Marine Commandos Battalions (515th, 616th, 818th) controlling 12 Marine Commandos Companies. The Egyptian Special Forces are Egypt's equivelant to the US Navy SEALS [not to be confused with the Army Thunderbolt Force [Al-Sa'iqa / Saaka / 777 Combat Unit]. Egyptian Seal Team forces are the best striking special forces in Egypt. The naval commandos generally serve in support of the 130th Amphibious Brigade by conducting such missions as the recon of beaches for possible amphibious landings, long range recon to identify enemy defenses and targets, as well as special operations such as assassinations of enemy officers and deep rear area strikes on enemy supply lines and bases. Trained in small craft insertion, airborne insertion, and equipped with Western gear and weaponry, these naval commandos provide a potent special operations capability to the Egyptian Navy."

Egyptian Naval Commandos (Al-Quaat Al Khaasat)


More the ‘144 mechanized brigade’ (Now, not future development of equipment acquisition). Example : 130 amphibious brigade

"Egypt does not have separte marine force, but continues to field a two-battalion brigade specialized in naval infantry missions and capabilities. The 111th Independent Mechanized Brigade is the successor to the former 130th Amphibious Brigade. The 111th Independent Mechanized Brigade of the Egyptian Army, with at least 1,000 troops and possibly as many as 1,500 troops, can conduct short range coast-wise amphibious assault operations.

This brigade has some 250 amphibious BMR-600P APCs with a further 100 amphibious BMP-1s in reserve. Assuming all the Navy's 3 LSMs [6 MBT + 180 troops] and 9 LCUs [3 MBT or 100 troops] were operational, an amphibious force of 1,500 troops could be supported by 18 MBTs, or a force of 540 troops with 45 MBTs. While the naval infantry is sea-based, Egypt has no small, fast landing or raiding craft to transport the troops from the heavy landing ships offshore to gain an initial beachhead. The naval infantry have no dedicated helicopter support. While there are reportedly a total of 26 Westland Commando variants helicopters, there are no afloat spots for them."


111th Independent Mechanized Brigade / ex 130th Amphibious Brigade - Army - Egypt


The 'reasons' for those purchases Mistral LHD is here.

Egypt's first Type 209 sub launched (Janes, 10 December 2015)


All the rest, concerning Egypt and KSA (GCC) military doctrine is just


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Pardon my ignorance but aren't these all are the units of the Egyptian Army? Not Navy. This is a very important fact. Havin your marines allocated wihthin the Army never does make a good outcome for the Navy.
And mate; SEALs are not Marines just as Naval SF/SOF can't be put on the same category as SOC naval infantry/naval infanty units.

 

[aziqbal]

I assume you did not realise that F35B can do something called a "rolling take off " ? No I guessed so

Your ignorance has clearly got the better of you so much so that you say that F35B is CATOBAR, actually it's F35C that is CATOBAR

And show which part of my post was from wiki just to be clear, that might be your source it's not mine

 

[-SINAN-]

so that you say that F35B is CATOBAR, actually it's F35C that is CATOBAR

He is not saying F-35B is CATOBAR.....lol, it's obvious that who's IQ is 10.

 

[xenon54 out]

Here comes blue beret with a IQ of 10 and pulls numbers right out of the air

I assume you did not realise that F35B can do something called a "rolling take off " ? No I guessed so

Your ignorance has clearly got the better of you so much so that you say that F35B is CATOBAR, actually it's F35C that is CATOBAR

And show which part of my post was from wiki just to be clear, that might be your source it's not mine

Blue Beret was in Turkish Naval Academy for years, theres no doubt his knowledge is big regarding the issue why do you think you can insult him that way?

I wonder who made you a think tank, its ridiculous how those fancy titles lost value recently, would be interesting to know the criteria of giving someone a title in PDF.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

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Pardon my ignorance but aren't these all are the units of the Egyptian Army? Not Navy. This is a very important fact. Havin your marines allocated wihthin the Army never does make a good outcome for the Navy.
And mate; SEALs are not Marines just as Naval SF/SOF can't be put on the same category as SOC naval infantry/naval infanty units.

That is true. You must understand that Egypt had, as this will now change, a correct naval fleet but most of all old because of a very obvious lack of money.

The strategic security and defense challenges created our alliance (Egypt, KSA, UAE - GCC) vital survival that pushed us to invest in this area previously very underestimated. For any marine country, especially oceanic, having the necessary financial means needs to have a worthy naval fleet. Egypt, more than any other alliance members, has the embryo that can absorb quickly the equipment acquired (FREMM, submarine, LHD etc…) and future. It will serve as a backbone to the whole. And with lots of work and determination, everything is possible. This is what we will have to do and Rome was not built in a day.


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Quote :

Mistral. Les Egyptiens arrivent en janvier

Vendredi 01 janvier 2016

Les porte-hélicoptères endormis à Saint-Nazaire auront bientôt leur équipage. 180 marins égyptiens sont attendus en janvier, 180 autres marins trois mois plus tard.

Les deux Mistral qui occupent le port de Saint-Nazaire depuis un an vont retrouver des occupants. Le nouveau propriétaire, à savoir la Marine égyptienne, va envoyer un premier équipage pour se former dans les prochaines semaines.

180 marins doivent arriver par avion à la mi-janvier pour une formation qui débutera en février. Ils seront suivis trois mois plus tard par un autre équipage de 180 hommes, qui prendront en main le second navire. Le transfert des porte-hélicoptères sous pavillon égyptien est programmé en mars.

Ces bâtiments de projection et de commandement (BPC), longs de 200 m, sont extrêmement sophistiqués. Il faudra plusieurs mois aux marins égyptiens pour se former aux manoeuvres du navire mais aussi aux appareillages tactiques purement militaires. Pour mémoire, ces navires de conception française disposent d'un des meilleurs systèmes de combat existants, d'un hôpital de 750 m2 et d'une capacité d'accueil de 200 marins et 450 pilotes ou soldats.

Lors de leur séjour à Saint-Nazaire, les marins égyptiens dormiront à bord des BPC. Chaque navire est équipé de cabines modulaires d'une à huit places (selon les grades) avec blocs sanitaires intégrés. Le commandant et ses officiers supérieurs sont logés près de la passerelle de navigation. Un peu de service d'hôtellerie est également prévu lors de ce séjour.

Il y a un an jour pour jour, le 19 décembre 2014, 450 marins russes reprenaient la mer à Saint-Nazaire à bord de leur navire école Smölny. La fin de six mois de formation inutile pour ces militaires qui auraient dû se trouver à bord des deux porte-hélicoptères Vladivostok et Sébastopol.

Mais la crise ukrainienne en a décidé autrement après que la France a refusé de vendre les deux bâtiments à la Russie. Depuis septembre, on sait que les deux navires de guerre vont équiper la Marine égyptienne (montant du contrat : 950 millions d'euros). Le premier d'entre-eux quittera Saint-Nazaire en juin ou juillet pour la Méditerranée.


Ouest-france

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The ‘153d Commando Group (Three Marine Commandos Battalions - 515th, 616th, 818 - controlling 12 Marine Commandos Companies), equivalent to the US Navy SEALS is different to ‘Al-Sa'iqa, Saaka and 777 Combat commando unit’.

Egyptian Navy Seals

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[TheGrim]

Lets create a separate thread for the Egyptian Mistral acquisitions. This thread is going off topic.

 

[Brutas]

Good move by the Turks. Black sea needs a balance of power.

 

[Some1LikeU]

Accoding to my local sources in Sedef ship. the TCG ANADOLU project will start in April 2016.... İ am very close to Sedef Ship.Yrd.

 

[aziqbal]

Blue Beret was in Turkish Naval Academy for years, theres no doubt his knowledge is big regarding the issue why do you think you can insult him that way?

I wonder who made you a think tank, its ridiculous how those fancy titles lost value recently, would be interesting to know the criteria of giving someone a title in PDF.

Then you obviously don't know about me not that I care

It's really childish and immature of members to be jumping to conclusions about F35B and LHD when they do not know the scope involved

The two words are easy to type in one sentence but does anyone realise what the reality of both systems working together is ? Here clearly not that is my point

 

[-------]

This is not a comparison but facts

I mean seriously how old are the members here like 12?

Here comes blue beret with a IQ of 10 and pulls numbers right out of the air

It's really childish and immature of members...

It's really childish and immature of members...

It's really childish and immature of members...

It's really childish and immature of members...

Then you obviously don't know about me not that I care

Yeah you are right, no one here knows about you nor do we care to when you act so childish and immature slinging mud at people.

 

[TheGrim]

Well another time, stop saying nonsenses and applaud blindly (“Those Mistrals under the hands of the Arabs will be more like a Logistical vessel rather than a "force projection/LPD"… Generally, Arabic nations don't put much importance on Navy”).

Turkish LHD Program | News & Discusions | Page 30


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Then take that argument (along with its participants) to the relevent thread. The title of this thread is very clear. Cheers

 

[cabatli_53]

Egypt and Mistral related posts are deleted ! Stay on topic please !