Turkish Land Vehicle Programs

[madmusti]

 

[UkroTurk]

I will sacrifise to your Allah.
Ne koydun abicim oyle.

 

[LegionnairE]

Longer burrel gives more muzzle velocity so more range.

both 105mm and 155mm guns we're talking about are 52 caliber... that's why what @Penguin says sounds like sorcery to me.

looks like the leo2 NG prototype...

 

[Penguin]

both 105mm and 155mm guns we're talking about are 52 caliber... that's why what @Penguin says sounds like sorcery to me.

Well, if you read correctly...

See the Denel 105mm L/52 LEO. That outperforms the 2S1 Gvodzika. It gets 24 km normal rounds (versus 15km) , 32 km (20 mi) with base bleed projectiles (versus 22km). Range, accuracy and lethality similar or better than 155mm 39-calibre...
Denel Land Systems' LEO leaps forward | defenceWeb
Army Guide

I was comparing Leo 105mm with 2S1 122mm.

Manufacturer compared Leo 105mm to 155mm/L39 . Here

Work on the 58-calibre LSPH started during the 1990s under Project Musuku, a South African Army/Armscor research and development programme, where a Denel/Armscor project team was tasked to develop a 105mm artillery system with range, accuracy and lethality similar or better than 155mm 39-calibre artillery systems. “This resulted in the Light Experimental Ordnance (LEO) gun [Advanced Multi-Role Light Artillery Gun to the SA Army] that achieved all these objectives.

Denel Land Systems' LEO leaps forward | defenceWeb

M109A5 replaces the 155 mm M185 cannon in an M178 mount with a 39-caliber 155 mm M284 cannon in an M182 mount
M109A6 "Paladin" has product improvement of the M284 cannon and M182A1 mount (same barrel length L39)
M109A7 aka M109A6 Paladin Integrated Management (PIM) shares common components with the Bradley Fighting Vehicle such as the engine, transmission, and tracks. Still the L39 gun.

The only longer barrel M109s are
Swiss M109 KAWEST: This Swiss improved version produced by Ruag incorporates a new Swiss-designed L47 155 mm gun with an increased firing range of up to 36 km.
Developed by the Dutch firm RDM and the German firm Rheinmetall, the M109L52 was first revealed in 2002, with the main improvement being replacement of the M126 series gun with the longer 52-caliber cannon from the PzH 2000.

The towed US M119 or UK L118 LIGHT GUN has a barrel length of 37 calibers (105mm/L37)

The US M198 has a barrel length of 39 calibers (155L39) The effective range is 18,100 meters when firing standard projectiles, which increases to 30,000 meters when firing rocket-assisted projectiles and guided ammunition. With a 52-caliber modification the range can surpass 40,000 meters.

Likewise the US M777 (155L39). Range 24 km (14.9 mi) or ERFB: 30km (18.6 mi) base bleed
Excalibur: 40km

 

[LegionnairE]

@Penguin
Thanks for clarifying that man. Now it makes perfect sense. So M777 isn't such a good system since it's 39 caliber too. I mean making it 52 caliber would make it heavier so I can sort of understand that... but I don't understand why they are still going with 39 calibers on paladin self propelled howitzers...

Even M109A6 is inferior to 52 caliber systems like T155 Fırtına, PZH2000, K9 etc.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

105 mm artillery is in classic terms not comparable with 155 mm artillery.
SA developed G6 as long range weapon and is working on extended ammunition.
G6 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer - Army Technology

Cause SA has best relations to Dutch it is plausible.
SA was also a former potential nuke power, the they decided to cancel all.

The tank on the trailer has typical and very significant German FEATURE : THE LIGHTCROSS /LEITKREUZ !

What is the white cross on the rear of a Leopard 1 / 2? - The Firing Line - World of Tanks official forum

Dutch LEO covered - possibly Leo 2 - A6 with 120 mm cannon; upgraded and sold to Finland , program SNOW-Leopard. Unit was half of the price of a new Leo-2 A7.

 

[Penguin]

both 105mm and 155mm guns we're talking about are 52 caliber... that's why what @Penguin says sounds like sorcery to me.


looks like the leo2 NG prototype...

@Penguin
Thanks for clarifying that man. Now it makes perfect sense. So M777 isn't such a good system since it's 39 caliber too. I mean making it 52 caliber would make it heavier so I can sort of understand that... but I don't understand why they are still going with 39 calibers on paladin self propelled howitzers...

Even M109A6 is inferior to 52 caliber systems like T155 Fırtına, PZH2000, K9 etc.

Isn't a good system ... I wouldn't say. Remember, it started out life as the VSEL (UK) "Ultralight-weight Field Howitzer" and is designed to weight only 4,200 kg. The minimal gun crew required is five. The lighter weight and smaller size allows the M777 to be transported by the MV-22 Osprey, CH-47 helicopter or trucks with ease to provide increased mobility and more compact storage over the M198. By comparison, the M198 that is replaces weighs 7,154 kg and takes 9 enlisted men to crew it. The Israëli L39 Soltam M-71A - which gives the same range performance - weighs 9,200kg and takes 8 crew while the Chinese PLL01 / Austrian GH N-45 (GC-45 developments) weighs 10,100 kg without APU (with crew of 6) and the L45 Denel G5 155mm with APU (GC-45 follow on) weighs 13,750 kg and takes 8 personnel. The Finnish Tampella 155 GH 52 APU weighs 14,000 kg. Try air lifting that!

So given the intened design limitation, namely to provide airmobile L39 firepower, it is quite a remarkable gun.

On the Paladin, they can still use L39 because of the GPS-guided, long range Excalibur round. Even when fired from an L39, Excalibur can achieve a range of approximately 40 to 57 kilometres (25 to 35 mi) depending on configuration, with a circular error probable (CEP) of around 5 metres (16 ft) to 20 metres (66 ft). The extended range is achieved through the use of folding glide fins, which allow the projectile to glide from the top of a ballistic arc towards the target. The munition was co-developed by United States-based Raytheon Missile Systems (guidance system) and the Swedish BAE Systems Bofors (body, base, ballistics and payload).

Current operators

• Canada (M777)
• Sweden (Archer system / FH77BW L52)
• United States Army and Marine Corps. (M198, M777 Lightweight and M109A6 Paladin)
• Germany (PzH 2000)
• Netherlands Royal Netherlands Army (PzH 2000)

Future or pending operators

• Australia—pending FMS request. (M198 in reserve, M777 operational)
• Norway—pending FMS request. (M109A3GNM)

You can see the pattern, I suppose... ;-)

105 mm artillery is in classic terms not comparable with 155 mm artillery.
SA developed G6 as long range weapon and is working on extended ammunition.
G6 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer - Army Technology

Cause SA has best relations to Dutch it is plausible.
SA was also a former potential nuke power, the they decided to cancel all.

The tank on the trailer has typical and very significant German FEATURE : THE LIGHTCROSS /LEITKREUZ !

What is the white cross on the rear of a Leopard 1 / 2? - The Firing Line - World of Tanks official forum

Dutch LEO covered - possibly Leo 2 - A6 with 120 mm cannon; upgraded and sold to Finland , program SNOW-Leopard. Unit was half of the price of a new Leo-2 A7.

Ku-84-07 belongs to the second bath of Leo 2A4s that was delivered to the Netherlands in 1981 i.e. the 2nd and 3rd Leo 2 build series (serials 12001-12278 and 22001-22167). Some were sold to Austria, some to Norway in A6 variant. All Dutch Leo 2s were taken out of service per 2011 (sold to various countries, just a few stored), leaving us without operational tanks.

This year it was decided 18 Leo 2 should be put back in service. The remaining 18 Leo 2A6s are taken from storage and gifted to Germany, which modernizes them to A7+ standard and leases them back to the Netherlands army. Under the circumstances, that is a cost-effective solution.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Penguin still though... they could make M777 in 105mm L52 configuration and with that much titanium in the mix it'd still be lighter than 5 tons... it'd probably be even lighter than 4200kg and would be UH-60 transportable...

Paladin thing still doesn't make sense to me... there would be absolutely no downside to replacing the guns with 52 calibers.

I'd still like some M777s for Turkish Army... We have Mi17s that could transport it.
But having to use excalibur rounds all the time would figuratively bankrupt us

 

[madmusti]

 

[UkroTurk]

Effects of Russian artillery.(fougasse shell)

155 mm 45 caliber or 52 caliber Gun

 

[[TR]AHMET]

peoples was say this cobra was shot by rpg7

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

It's urban warfare, unfortunately;

but hope that new and better armored vehicles 6x6 and 8x8 are on the way

 

[madmusti]

 

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https://www.*********************.com/forums/attachments/image-jpeg.277/

Why is an American forum interested in Turkish Products, interesting

 

[-SINAN-]

Why is an American forum interested in Turkish Products, interesting

Maybe in that American forum, there is a Turkish member.