Turkish Armed Forces Multimedia Center

Nein · May 9, 2019

CAN_TR said:
1) MG3 is outdated and heavy as fvck, also pretty unwiedly.
2) A DMR/Sniper would help alot.
3) Why are only the Machine Gunners equipped with a Pistols?

Mg3 aka MG42 is a great gun yes they are outdated I believe they should be modernised. Mg3 is a proven design dont mind if the Turkish army makes a modernised one along with light weight materials I think can still compete as a lmg in todays warfare.

Jackal131 · May 10, 2019

Nein said:
Mg3 aka MG42 is a great gun yes they are outdated I believe they should be modernised. Mg3 is a proven design dont mind if the Turkish army makes a modernised one along with light weight materials I think can still compete as a lmg in todays warfare.

The MG3 is definitely not a great GPMG. Its a mediocre GPMG. Relatively speaking its awkward piece of annoying over-engineered over-weighted poorly balanced piece of crap that isnt much good for anything beyond static positions. And the high rate of fire does not make up for the fact that every other attribute compared to its competitors is terrible. The PKM is a great GPMG. The PKM surpasses the MG3 in every single variable that is important for the user.

That is why the TSK is not looking to modernise the MG3 but to replace it completely, its obsolete. Originally we were heading down the path of a home made modified PKM which was fantastic and they clearly listened to troops in the field. But unfortunately I think Bureaucracy has pushed an FN Mag variant to the front instead.

CAN_TR said:
1) MG3 is outdated and heavy as fvck, also pretty unwiedly.
2) A DMR/Sniper would help alot.
3) Why are only the Machine Gunners equipped with a Pistols?

I dont think the picture is very accurate. An actual combat squad is about 12 men split into 3 fire teams. With a designated marksmen being one of the fire team leaders. Then again things may have changed recently.

kartal1 · May 10, 2019

Damir877 said:
Yeah this is pretty weird,not a single DMR in a squad and not one but two MG3's.With all this I guess a squad will be pretty slow on the move and a attractive target for enemy sniper(especially those MG3 guys).

Speaking of machine guns,it's been a while since i have seen MG3 used by Turkish forces,they usually use PKM,minimi or lately FN MK3 in 7.62x51(navy)these days,atleast that is my impression,maybe some Turkish members can correct me if I am wrong.

The fact is that on need the structure of the team can be changed but that's close to what a normal infantry "manga" team would carry. The structure of the fire teams and sections around other NATO countries is almost similar. According to Wikipedia the British army have a tradition to have a designated marksman in their section of 8 people consisted of two fire teams (4 men per fire team) but from 2019 they will remove the marksmen and put on their place riflemen.

It have to be noted that the structure of the squad changes trough the branches. For example the Commando or Special Forces squads may look different.

Damir877 · May 10, 2019

Jackal131 said:
That is why the TSK is not looking to modernise the MG3 but to replace it completely, its obsolete. Originally we were heading down the path of a home made modified PKM which was fantastic and they clearly listened to troops in the field. But unfortunately I think Bureaucracy has pushed an FN Mag variant to the front instead.

To be honest,while i agree about PKM I don't think FN MAG is much better choice than MG3.Turkey should have turned to 7.62x51 PKM in my opinion.

kartal1 said:
The fact is that on need the structure of the team can be changed but that's close to what a normal infantry "manga" team would carry. The structure of the fire teams and sections around other NATO countries is almost similar. According to Wikipedia the British army have a tradition to have a designated marksman in their section of 8 people consisted of two fire teams (4 men per fire team) but from 2019 they will remove the marksmen and put on their place riflemen.

It have to be noted that the structure of the squad changes trough the branches. For example the Commando or Special Forces squads may look different.

I would have to disagree about British army,from what I remember they were removing light machine guns(FN Minimi) from the squads not the marksman.In fact they have two marksman in a squad(1 in each fireteam)

https://www.overtdefense.com/2018/03/21/british-army-set-drop-light-machine-guns/

kartal1 · May 10, 2019

Jackal131 said:
The MG3 is definitely not a great GPMG. Its a mediocre GPMG. Relatively speaking its awkward piece of annoying over-engineered over-weighted poorly balanced piece of crap that isnt much good for anything beyond static positions. And the high rate of fire does not make up for the fact that every other attribute compared to its competitors is terrible. The PKM is a great GPMG. The PKM surpasses the MG3 in every single variable that is important for the user.

That is why the TSK is not looking to modernise the MG3 but to replace it completely, its obsolete. Originally we were heading down the path of a home made modified PKM which was fantastic and they clearly listened to troops in the field. But unfortunately I think Bureaucracy has pushed an FN Mag variant to the front instead.

I dont think the picture is very accurate. An actual combat squad is about 12 men split into 3 fire teams. With a designated marksmen being one of the fire team leaders. Then again things may have changed recently.

Some sources says that its possible for two machine guns to enter the inventory. The PKM variant you say as GPMG and for static positions or other platforms like armored vehicles, tanks for example the FN MAG variant. They also named the FN MAG one as General Purpose Platform Machine Gun PMT-76 while the name of the other is MMT.

Damir877 said:
To be honest,while i agree about PKM I don't think FN MAG is much better choice than MG3.Turkey should have turned to 7.62x51 PKM in my opinion.

I would have to disagree about British army,from what I remember they were removing light machine guns(FN Minimi) from the squads not the marksman.In fact they have two marksman in a squad(1 in each fireteam)

https://www.overtdefense.com/2018/03/21/british-army-set-drop-light-machine-guns/

Excuse me I misunderstood the article. Here what it says:

Team leader: The NCO carries an L85 rifle with an L123 underslung grenade launcher. Some units vary with one of the privates carrying the grenade launcher rather than the NCO.
Rifleman: One private carries an L85 rifle. Under earlier fireteam organisation there were two privates carrying L85 rifles, but the second of these was later substituted for a designated marksman (see below); from 2019, there will be a return to having two riflemen per fireteam.
Gunner: One private carries an L110 light machine gun, replacing the L86 light support weapon which in turn had replaced the L7 GPMG. The L110A3 will be removed from service in 2019, with fireteams having a second rifleman instead.
Designated Marksman: One private carries an L86 light support weapon or L129A1 sharpshooter rifle. The L86A2 will be removed from service in 2019, with the L129A1 officially becoming the standard section DMR; additionally, due to there being a return to sections having two riflemen per fireteam, only one fireteam will have a designated marksman, with the other fireteam including the section gunner.

Jackal131 · May 10, 2019

Damir877 said:
To be honest,while i agree about PKM I don't think FN MAG is much better choice than MG3.Turkey should have turned to 7.62x51 PKM in my opinion.

https://www.overtdefense.com/2018/03/21/british-army-set-drop-light-machine-guns/

My point exactly and I agree with you 100%, the home made PKM was the best possible solution. Unfortunately due to Bureaucracy / politics an FN Mag variant seems to be pushing through - and that is also far less effective than the PKM.

kartal1 said:
Some sources says that its possible for two machine guns to enter the inventory. The PKM variant you say as GPMG and for static positions or other platforms like armored vehicles, tanks for example the FN MAG variant. They also named the FN MAG one as General Purpose Platform Machine Gun PMT-76 while the name of the other is MMT.

If both versions enter inventory that is a better option than if just the FN Mag variant entered. If our soldiers in the field were using the PKM variant that would be great. But it is poor for logistics - something our military is currently looking to improve.