Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Saithan]

There is a thread for s400 ppl.

 

[Ansu fati]

When will Turkey's indigenous LRSAM be ready?

2023-25

 

[UkroTurk]

32 S400 Fire Units with 192 missiles = $2,5 billion


in 2009 The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale
13 PATRIOT Fire Units with 72 PAC-3 and 197 MIM-104E missiles , without TOT = $7,8 billion
( btw president OBAMA and Senate did not sale PATRIOT air defense system to Turkey )


Turkey would buy 96 S400 Fire Units with 576 missiles + maybe some TOT for $7,8 billion

and American MIM-104E with range of 160km
Russian S400 with range of 380km

and The US says Turkey can not use PATRIOT in the Eastern Mediterranean and Agean
Russia says Turkey can use S400 everywhere

İt had been first American offer. the USA reduced price when Turkey started negotiations with russians.
Regarding to s400, few of missiles that we bought have ***400km range*** Do you really believe in that s400 could intercept a fighter at 400 range?

Edit: some of missiles we bought have very limited capacity as they are cheap.

 

[Constantin84]

İt has been first American offer. the USA reduced price when Turkey started negotiations with Russians. Few of missiles that we bought have ***400km range*** Do you really believe in that s400 could intercept a fighter at 400 range?

The US started the negotiations with us at over 5 billion $ and it ended up at 3.92.

 

[UkroTurk]

The US started the negotiations with us at over 5 billion $ and it ended up at 3.92.

 

[Ansu fati]

The US started the negotiations with us at over 5 billion $ and it ended up at 3.92.

Romania is important due to its geographical location but Turkey is even more important
Yet US treats Turkey differently...
Estonia which has recently joined NATO became the center of NATO cyber operations but Turkey which borders crazy middle eastern nations and literally protects fellow NATO countries thanks to the long range radar that detects ballistic missiles stationed in Malatya is neglected
Turkey has asked for patriots since 90s
When s400 was bought they finally softened a bit their stance
If they invest and make Estonia the center of cyber NATO country then they should do same with Turkey in the field of air defense

 

[Constantin84]

Romania is important due to its geographical location but Turkey is even more important
Yet US treats Turkey differently...
Estonia which has recently joined NATO became the center of NATO cyber operations but Turkey which borders crazy middle eastern nations and literally protects fellow NATO countries thanks to the long range radar that detects ballistic missiles stationed in Malatya is neglected
Turkey has asked for patriots since 90s
When s400 was bought they finally softened a bit their stance
If they invest and make Estonia the center of cyber NATO country then they should do same with Turkey in the field of air defense

Playing victim is not a solution. I can agree that the US and even EU could treat Turkey better but this goes both ways. Turkey threatened 2 EU states directly, it tries to block one of them from exploiting its national gas reserves. Before you bring Northern Cyprus into it let me remind you that Greek Cyprus offered to store the gas money in a mutual fund up until a political solution for the island will arrive. You want TOT from US and EU for weapons that your leaders threaten to use on EU member states!! You have a considerable Turkish diaspora in the EU, which despite small misunderstandings, has thrived in here,yet we still get accusations of Euro fascists....just look in this forum...eurofags, eurofascists, eurotrash everywhere....and you want people to trust you...

 

[MMM-E]

İt has been first American offer. the USA reduced price when Turkey started negotiations with Russians. Few of missiles that we bought have ***400km range*** Do you really believe in that s400 could intercept a fighter at 400 range?

in 2009 72 PAC-3 and 197 MIM-104E missiles = $7,8 billion
in 2018 60 PAC-3 and 80 GEM-T missiles = $3,5 billion

and The Ankara-Moscow S-400 deal was inked in December 2017



PATRIOT System Radar range 100km and GEM-T missile has range of 70km and maximum altitude 24km

S400 System Radar range 600km and 48N6E missile has range of 250 km , 40N6E missile has range of 380km and maximum altitude 30 km

S400s can engage on AWACSs , Strategic Bombers like B-52 from 380km away and S400s can engage on Greek F-16s even on Athens

and PATRIOT has launcher with a 30 degree launch point .... on the other hand S400 has vertical launcher

also S400 can be mounted for action in five minutes, compared with an hour for a PATRIOT battery


and The US says Turkey can not use PATRIOT in the Eastern Mediterranean and Agean
Russia says Turkey can use S400 everywhere



I personally want to be allies with the US ... Russia showed true face in Idlib
but The US should stop supporting PKK/YPG and FETO terror organizations against Turkey and to give PATRIOT , F35A/B Fighter Jets to Turkey , if the US and Turkey are real allies in NATO


OBAMA and Senate did not sale PATRIOT to Turkey
even The US Senate blocked sale of UCAV to Turkey , far before than S400 deal
and now The US Senate block sale of F35 to Turkey

 

[wulff]

The most valuable part of the S-400 system for Turkey is the 9M96E2 missile. 120 km range, 60G peak maneuvrability, hit-to-kill capability, active radar seeker and TBM intercept capability upto 30km this missile provides a perfect replacement for the Patriot in the TBMD role and can inspire the development of similar features for Siper.
I haven't seen anything on the web that says explicitly that this missile is part of the Turkish purchase, but it would have been pretty stupid to not buy it with the S-400.

 

[UkroTurk]

in 2009 72 PAC-3 and 197 MIM-104E missiles = $7,8 billion
in 2018 60 PAC-3 and 80 GEM-T missiles = $3,5 billion

and The Ankara-Moscow S-400 deal was inked in December 2017



PATRIOT System Radar range 100km and GEM-T missile has range of 70km and maximum altitude 24km

S400 System Radar range 600km and 48N6E missile has range of 250 km , 40N6E missile has range of 380km and maximum altitude 30 km

S400s can engage on AWACSs , Strategic Bombers from 380km away and S400s can engage on Greek F-16s even on Athens

and PATRIOT has launcher with a 30 degree launch point .... on the other hand S400 has vertical launcher

also S400 can be mounted for action in five minutes, compared with an hour for a PATRIOT battery


and The US says Turkey can not use PATRIOT in the Eastern Mediterranean and Agean
Russia says Turkey can use S400 everywhere

İ dont want to sound offensive but engaging on F16 over Athena from 400km doesnt mean you could hit it.
Yes you could dedect long range over Athena with s400 but we already had theese capabilities. We already had long range radars.
Most of missiles we bought have range around 100km and export versions.

Are we paying money just for radars?

İ strongly advice you check PAC 3 anti-ballistic capabilities. Patriot better engages ballistic missiles thanks to angled launcher.
VLS is not always big advantage. PAC 3 is totally different from old patriot with anti-ballistic capabilities. We should compare not quantity of missiles , we had better compare quality Then make price assesment.
İ would prefer 4 SAM systems with 150km coverage rather than 2 SAM with 400km coverage due to the world and Türkiye's topography arent flat.
However pac3 has legendary anti-ballistic capabilities.

Moreover 4 radars of 4SAM systems creates 4 more jobs for enemy airforce comparing 2 radar source of 2 s400systems. So Your enemy should engage more targets for suppressing your radars.
They need more SEAD operations when you have more systems.

Edit: i dont insist. let it be as you said.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...400-systems-from-russia-report-says-1.8431520

 

[Constantin84]

So,after all said and done, the ideea is that not much was gained financially,as the price for the 2 systems is roughly equal, no ToT was gained, 10 billion $ in F35 parts manufacturing, support, was lost.

 

[MMM-E]

The most valuable part of the S-400 system for Turkey is the 9M96E2 missile. 120 km range, 60G peak maneuvrability, hit-to-kill capability, active radar seeker and TBM intercept capability upto 30km this missile provides a perfect replacement for the Patriot in the TBMD role and can inspire the development of similar features for Siper.
I haven't seen anything on the web that says explicitly that this missile is part of the Turkish purchase, but it would have been pretty stupid to not buy it with the S-400.

S400 System doesnt have hit to kill capability ..... S500 77N6 series will use hit to kill technology

SAMP-T System ASTER-30 missile has range of 120km and hit to kill capability

and in 2017 Turkey made an initial deal with the French-Italian consortium EUROSAM to develop national defense system based on the SAMP-T air defense system

but another terror supporter country FRANCE obstructing Turkey-Eurosam Missile Defence System project ... because of Turkey’s military operation Peace Spring late last year in Syria against PKK/YPG terrorists

İ dont want to sound offensive but engaging on F16 over Athena from 400km doesnt mean you could hit it.
Yes you could dedect long range over Athena with s400 but we already had theese capabilities. We already had long range radars.
Most of missiles we bought have range around 100km and export versions.

From Turkey to Athens about 250 km
and Most of missiles we bought have range around 100km ? who said this ?
40N6E missile has range of 380km ( export version ) ... also 48N6E missile has range of 250 km

İ strongly advice you check PAC 3 anti-ballistic capabilities. Patriot better engages ballistic missiles thanks to angled launcher.

Turkey bought S400s against Fighter Jets ... Greece,Egypt,France are threat to Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean and They have Fighter Jets , not Ballistic Missiles
and now S400 is the best in the world against Aircrafts

also China said that S400 intercepted Ballistic Missile

Turkey wants to buy PAC-3 too against Ballistic Missiles but the US Senate block sale of PATRIOT to Turkey and even TRUMP doesnt give a guarantee to Turkey for selling of PATRIOT , even if Turkey cancel S400 deal

Israel wants Turkey not to get PATRIOT and F35 since 2011

and S400 deal was a shock for Israel

 

[Ansu fati]

Playing victim is not a solution. I can agree that the US and even EU could treat Turkey better but this goes both ways. Turkey threatened 2 EU states directly, it tries to block one of them from exploiting its national gas reserves. Before you bring Northern Cyprus into it let me remind you that Greek Cyprus offered to store the gas money in a mutual fund up until a political solution for the island will arrive. You want TOT from US and EU for weapons that your leaders threaten to use on EU member states!! You have a considerable Turkish diaspora in the EU, which despite small misunderstandings, has thrived in here,yet we still get accusations of Euro fascists....just look in this forum...eurofags, eurofascists, eurotrash everywhere....and you want people to trust you...

No one is playing victim here
Those EEZ you mentioned are disputed if you want more discussion we can have in another thread
Same could be said for europeans you want friendly Turkey but you are supporting pkk
you know very well why greek cyprus was admitted in EU(Greece is pretending like they support Turkey’s accession knowing that greek cypriots will always veto isn’t this hypocritical?!?) even though they control only 65% of the island
The same EU which supports haftar and kurdish terrorism wants to talk about diplomacy and international law.....
You are called eurofags because your leaders are promoting lgbt agenda what can I say anything else other than feel sorry for what they are doing to fellow europeans globalists are literally brainwashing western people with dangerous ideology that will have catastrophic consequences in the coming decades just watch the developments
If you want to reply me please find another thread or make a new one

 

[wulff]

S400 System doesnt have hit to kill capability ..... S500 77N6 series will use hit to kill technology

SAMP-T System ASTER-30 missile has range of 120km and hit to kill capability

and in 2017 Turkey made an initial deal with the French-Italian consortium EUROSAM to develop national defense system based on the SAMP-T air defense system

but another terror supporter country FRANCE obstructing Turkey-Eurosam Missile Defence System project ... because of Turkey’s military operation Peace Spring late last year in Syria against PKK/YPG terrorists



From Turkey to Athens about 250 km
and Most of missiles we bought have range around 100km ? who said this ?
40N6E missile has range of 380km ( export version ) ... also 48N6E missile has range of 250 km





Turkey bought S400s against Fighter Jets ... Greece,Egypt,France are threat to Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean and They have Fighter Jets , not Ballistic Missiles
and now S400 is the best in the world against Aircrafts

also China said that S400 intercepted Ballistic Missile

Turkey wants to buy PAC-3 too against Ballistic Missiles but the US Senate block sale of PATRIOT to Turkey and even TRUMP doesnt give a guarantee to Turkey for selling of PATRIOT , even if Turkey cancel S400 deal

Israel wants Turkey not to get PATRIOT and F35 since 2011

and S400 deal was a shock for Israel

The 9M96E/E2 are most likely hit to kill missiles. Many source describes them this way. On the other hand, I haven't seen a single one that says they carry proximity fused warheads. The 48N6 and 40N6 missiles aren't hit-to-kill, that's why they carry huge warheads. S-400 uses all these missiles.

The 9M96E2 is in may respects technologically ahead of the Aster 30, even though it is an older system. For example the Aster weighs 450-510 kg and has a range of 100-120 km. The export version of the 9M96E2 reaches 120 km but is significantly lighter at 420 kg. The domestic Russian version likely has better range.

The Aster TEL carries only 8 missiles, whereas a single S400 launcher could carry upto 16 and a S-350 launcher can carry 12 9M96E2. Then there is a whole bunch of russian radars available that can provide search, tracking and mid course guidance commands to the russian missile, none of which are available to the Aster which relies solely on the Arabel radar.

Overall a much superior system.

 

[UkroTurk]

"Turkey has received two S-400 battalions, more than 120 surface-to-air missiles, as well as auxiliary equipment, spare parts and tools," the source said, adding that technology transfer, even partial, was not envisaged by the contract.

https://tass.com/defense/1110983

120 missiles cost 2.5billion not 192 missiles!( Still we dont know which missiles they are)