Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Dante80]

So at the end, you can sleep well for mid-term there is no threat toward us from south (as long as PKK removed) and east. The real deal is Greece and it's airforce capabilities.

Agreed on that. Barring the HAWK system, Turkey has been historically underfunding its air defense capabilities. A system like S-400 now can be used defensively to shield against counter-force attacks of high value targets, as well as an area denial weapon via the forming of kill boxes on the Aegean. The second capability is not that prevalent though, due to the nature of the Aegean environment (radar obfuscation via land masses, the amount of contacts inside the small theater essentially making it a confusing electronic soup for all combatants, IFF propagation strategies etc).

Another attribute of the system that must be commented on is its (at least theoretical) capability to impede a Cruise missile attack against high value targets, not simply an aircraft bombing mission. HAF trains two squadrons on the use of the SCALP cruise missile, and the S-400 system is a very valued counter to that.

 

[OguzSenturk]

Another attribute of the system that must be commented on is its (at least theoretical) capability to impede a Cruise missile attack against high value targets, not simply an aircraft bombing mission. HAF trains two squadrons on the use of the SCALP cruise missile, and the S-400 system is a very valued counter to that.

Yes, scalp missiles are indeed threat for our military infastructures. In order to defend S-400 missile system, there are few ongoin projects parallel to S-400 project.

Korkut very-low altitute air defence system (delivery starts in 2019);

Hisar-A (low altitute air defence system) will give it's first prototype in 2020, and Hisar-O (medium alt.) will give it's first prototype in 2021.

So we will be pretty ready to confront any threat with cruise missile capability in 2023.

 

[CAN_TR]

Korkut
HISAR A, O, U
S-400
Aselsan-EUROSAM Missile Defence System

Pretty good

Don't forget that we build TF2000 Destroyers (Anti Air warfare), Railguns and our planned Golden Cage (Turkish Version of Iron Dome)

really exciting projects.

 

[Saithan]

I still don't get how you got the impression that our neighbors would used jets and other things to hit our soil, our citizens.

So I guess I have to ask this, what type of missiles did the houthis use to target Riyadh ? And how much they cost ?
What is the range ? which targets could they hit within turkish soil if they decided to use Syrian/Iraqi territory to fire these missiles ?

You're talking about Greece, but they are the least of my worries because they're not "unstable", granted they have decent airforce and all that, but I don't see RTE or AKP causing any trouble, it's more like they're selling of islands that previous turkish governments has held and denied occupation. I remember that the notion of casus belli was even lifted from some of the criterias.

 

[CAN_TR]

USA: Lets develop and produce the Patriot Missiles together.
In my opinion we should agree with this offer and play along until we get the S-400.
After that quit the Patriot deal, that would be a indirect "fvck you"

This tweet also claim that there is a ToT for the S-400.

https://twitter.com/x/status/982145011008483329

 

[egolfs]

USA: Lets develop and produce the Patriot Missiles together.
In my opinion we should agree with this offer and play along until we get the S-400.
After that quit the Patriot deal, that would be a indirect "fvck you"

This tweet also claim that there is a ToT for the S-400.

https://twitter.com/x/status/982145011008483329

This sounds like a "carrot and stick" policy to me -

Apart from the disingenuous "offer" to develop Patriot missiles together, they also remind (threaten) that action can be taken through CAATSA (Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act).

Who needs enemies when you have friends like these?

 

[CAN_TR]

This sounds like a "carrot and stick" policy to me -

Apart from the disingenuous "offer" to develop Patriot missiles together, they also remind (threaten) that action can be taken through CAATSA (Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act).

Who needs enemies when you have friends like these?

If they are so pissed and against that S-400 deal, then it's the right way.

 

[Saithan]

I seriously doubt that there is any ToT with the purchase of S400. We don't have that kind of close friendship with Russia. it is just BS written by someone who reads too much into deals.

Our military personnel will be taught how to use the S400, so I don't know if that involves some tech knowledge.

 

[Adıvar]

Here i see S-400 is much better than Patriot, anyway.. and its most useful feature for me is it can detect and destroy balistic and cruise missiles, beside planes.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201711111059014714-patriot-s-400-air-defense-systems/

 

[Dante80]

For those that remember the history of the T-LORAMIDS program since its inception in 2005, it shouldn't really come as a surprise that NATO and the US in particular would react like this. The past tends to repeat itself, and it was only five years ago that NATO and the US were equally appalled about Turkey apparently choosing the HQ-9 system to move forward with.

An objective analysis on the situation gives some pretty interesting tidbits. From the start, Türk Kara Kuvvetleri was mostly interested in the Patriot system, but a pretty major component of the program from its inception was the successful transfer of missile and guidance technology to Turkey. This was (and is) a core national strategy in military procurement for the country, and the way the first RFIs in the program were devised really attest to that. Turkey was preparing its defense industry (mainly via ASESLAN at the time) to extricate as much as it could from the program, and successfully pitted the competitors against each other in a pretty cut-throat competition.

Raytheon & Lockheed Martin, Eurosam, Rosoboronexport and CPMIEC went to the negotiations table multiple times, and Turkey played one against the other knowing both the value this program presented for them (even a small first procurement of 4 systems would likely lock Turkey on the supplier for more), and the fact that there was no strategic impediment to make a hurried decision. And while in the end the program was canceled for a number of reasons, it needs to be said that Turkey played the game beautifully.

Now, I don't know whether the current S-400 deal includes a technology transfer component. Two things are sure though. The expedience factor has changed for Turkey due to objective reasons, and the Turkish industry is now much more capable to extricate technology from a procurement program, or even move in an indigenous program itself. Thus, the ToT imperative we had in T-LORAMIDS is greatly diminished now, and Turkey has the luxury to go to a direct bi-national procurement program to serve its immediate needs.

This - of course - pisses off the competition greatly, which is the ultimate reason for the current posturing we are seeing from across the Atlantic. Hope that helps, cheers..C:

 

[Timur]

would the patriot system be free? that means if its like our stinger systems than I would rather buy stones to throw..

if some americans will come and visit our bases to count our patriot systems or wortser to check their software than patriot is a huge thing to let yourself being raped with....

we should also consider this..

 

[CAN_TR]

I seriously doubt that there is any ToT with the purchase of S400. We don't have that kind of close friendship with Russia. it is just BS written by someone who reads too much into deals.

Our military personnel will be taught how to use the S400, so I don't know if that involves some tech knowledge.

Putin confirmed in Ankara (Tuesday) that they will sell the S-400 with ToT, he also says that it's NOT about trust or political cooperation BUT commercial interests.

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/x/status/984001274562646016

https://twitter.com/x/status/984007822378708993

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/984064272719319040

 

[cabatli_53]

A short summary of air defense missile projects and compilation of their trials in approximate years If nothing delayed !

• National Air Defence Systems

Korkut: Under Production
Korkut-D: Under trials
Hisar-MANPADS: 2018/19
Golden Cage C-RAM SAM: (?) (Iron-Dome equivalent)
Sapan Naval SAM Missile: (?) (It is thought to be RAM equivalent)
Hisar-A IIR 2019/20 (Land/Naval Forces)
Hisar-O IIR 2020/21 (Land/Naval Forces)
Hisar-O RF 2020/21 (Land/Naval Forces)
Hisar-N (?) (Air Forces I-HAWK XXI replacement)
Hisar-U (RF-IIR) 2021/22 (Land/Naval Forces)

• National Radars

EIRS/TEIRS radar (650+km) 2020/21
STR radar (100+km) 2020/21
ÇAFRAD (450-500km) 2019/20
Kalkan-II radar (150+km)
MAR radar (100+km)
MAR-D radar (100+km)

• Foreign SAM purchase

S-400: 2019/20