Turkey’s integration ‘EU’s last hope for the future’ legal expert claims

[Viper0011.]

Turkey will never be an European state,keep dreaming,it isnt some experts that would change something,and as if the Europeans would accept an European Turkey.

Turkey might be a bigger military power than France one day, it is definitely growing fast. Also, on Geo political issues, Turkey has a direct impact on the Middle East and Russia, than France. Germany, France, the UK, etc, are older stronger economic systems, which China is dwarfing rapidly through building rail and direct links to Europe.

Remember, Europe's defense from one large side begins from Turkey. I think Turkey is waiting on her own growth, not necessary being a part of EU at this time, from what I've seen. They have 15% more population then the French and 20% more area then the French (just one example). So as the growth continues, they could grow past France over the next 20-30 years as its a much bigger market.

 

[-SINAN-]

They are in no position to finance mega projects like Turkey can.

Mate, i want to say that "Turkey is not financing these mega projects".

We are using the "build operate transfer" method.

 

[LegionnairE]

Turkey might be a bigger military power than France one day, it is definitely growing fast. Also, on Geo political issues, Turkey has a direct impact on the Middle East and Russia, than France. Germany, France, the UK, etc, are older stronger economic systems, which China is dwarfing rapidly through building rail and direct links to Europe.

Remember, Europe's defense from one large side begins from Turkey. I think Turkey is waiting on her own growth, not necessary being a part of EU at this time, from what I've seen. They have 15% more population then the French and 20% more area then the French (just one example). So as the growth continues, they could grow past France over the next 20-30 years as its a much bigger market.

you know after all those cold war years we've held their flank against the soviet union it's ungrateful of EU to deny Turkey membership

 

[Ceri]

Because they rationalize everything, from Egemen bağış to mock on Islam, to Erdoğan family's giant growth of their wealth. Corrupted ministers.

So, i say "Let say the PM comes to your neighbor's house, his bodyguards held down your neighbor and PM rapes his wife. And you saw it all with your own eyes......would you still vote for him ? " And my AKP voter friends say i won't believe in my eyes (yes, they seriously said that). So, yes most of them blindly following. So, vote as they are receiving aid money. So vote, because they can win contracts unlawfully without competing....etc.. etc..

That is a very weak argument you are presenting. One cannot mention an example from a person who votes for AKP and draw a parallel to the rest of AKP voters, you are a university graduate Sinan, you should know.

You would be surprised to know, economic wise, AKP has shown the worst performance among the single party governments. Yeah, they will continue hopefully with a less vote everytime.

Unlike you, i don't rely on graph's served by articles, i would rather conduct my own research so i took the liberty to actually analyze data and whether your claim on AKP being the worst performer for single party rule is true, here are the actual results based on actual World Bank data and not a Turkish article.

AKP rule economic growth rate performance based on World Bank Data:
2002: 6,2 2003: 5,3 2004: 9,4 2005: 8,4 2006: 6,9 2007: 4,7 2008: 0,7 2009: -4,8 2010 9,2 2011: 8,8
2012: 2,1 2013: 4,2 2014: 2,9
Average growth rate during 13 years of AKP reign 2002-2014 64/13=4,9%
The average growth is 4,9% according to World Bank data, close to the graph which you have posted. But as is quiete evident the recession of 2008 have had a quiete impact on the economy. Is about 5% GDP growth a year good, for a good 13 years, in my opinion the performance taking into account every variable it is.

Now let us look at the other single party goverments performance according to World Bank data. Worthy of serious comparison are the longest standing single party rules, since you can't compare an AKP rule of 13 years with 2 year rule of ANAP (1997-1999) or AP rule of 1975-1977. Therefore as i'm sure you will agree i will include the longest single party rules and compare their economic performance based on GDP growth rate. DYP rule of 1992-1996, ANAP 1983-1991, AP 1965-1971. These are the longest standing single party rules, absolute no ideology taken into account a purely objective analysis. Let's start with the earliest.

AP 1965-1971: 1965: 2,8 1966: 11,2 1967: 4,7 1968: 6,8 1969: 4 1970: 3,2 1971: 5,6
Average growth rate of 7 year of AP rule 1965-1971 38,3/7=5,47%

I'm doing the exact same procedure as above for the ANAP 1983-1991 and DYP 1992-1996.
ANAP 1983-1991: 5% average growth for 9 years consequently

DYP 1992-1996: 4,7% average growth for 5 years consequently

You claimed for single party systems in history of Turkish republic AKP had the worst record, when we look at the 3 longest standing governments of single party rule the results are these:
AP 1965-1971 7 years rule 5,5% average growth
ANAP 1983-1991 9 years rule 5% average growth
DYP 1992-1996 5 years rule 4,7% average growth
AKP 2002-2014 13 y years rule 4,9% average growth

(Just made a graph on excel)

The closest success to AKP's economic growth is Turgut Özeal's ANAP 9 year rule of 1983-1991 where Turkey enjoyed 5% compare that with 13 year rule of AKP 4,9% average growth, i would definately claim AKP outperformed ANAP. In other words your claim that AKP was the worst performer in economic terms for single party system does not hold up, you are referring to a graph you took from somewhere, and base your claim on solely the average growth of single party rules not accounting the number of consecutive years in power.

 

[LegionnairE]

AKP rule economic growth rate performance based on World Bank Data:
2002: 6,2 2003: 5,3 2004: 9,4 2005: 8,4 2006: 6,9 2007: 4,7 2008: 0,7 2009: -4,8 2010 9,2 2011: 8,8
2012: 2,1 2013: 4,2 2014: 2,9
Average growth rate during 13 years of AKP reign 2002-2014 64/13=4,9%
The average growth is 4,9% according to World Bank data, close to the graph which you have posted. But as is quiete evident the recession of 2008 have had a quiete impact on the economy. Is about 5% GDP growth a year good, for a good 13 years, in my opinion the performance taking into account every variable it is.

you say that like an objective person... but you don't take the fvcking WWII into account when you criticize CHP

C'mon, this moron thinks that economic growth can be sustained with reliance on construction sector he argued with Ali Babacan on this and I applaud for Ali Babacan for having half a brain and insisting on arguing that we need Industrialism against erdogan's stunning ignorance.

But everyone else in AKP is going to ask "how high?" when he says jump. Because of this:
"Rant olmazsa ülke kalkınmaz" | Gündem Haberleri

They profit in crazy amounts in incerased property values

 

[Ceri]

Since i'm analyzing data i'll provide other interesting data on AKP's performance and you can decide whether it is one defined by failure or success.
I think once good indicator for economic prosperity is GDP per capita, if we measure the change in every decade these are the results:
1960: 2300 USD
1970: 3100 USD (800 USD increase)
1980: 3700 USD (600 USD increase)
1990: 5000 USD (1300 USD increase)
2000: 6112 USD (1112 USD increase)
2010: 7814 USD (1702 USD increase)

I'm not a member of AKP, i was born in Europe and have spent my entire life here, i don't get economic or any kind of support from AKP. Objectively speaking the indications clearly demonstrate the best increase during the 00s. Yes Kemal Dervis' reforms had an impact, but do not downplay the performance of the government.

Total GDP 2002: 196 billion USD
Total GDP 2012: 788 billion USD

This guys is a forthfold growth. in 10 years. Not data from Turkish "AKP" source but from the World Bank
#Legionnaire The thought of CHP rule did not even cross my mind, i just took the longest ruling single party's. The purpose wasn't even a critique of certain political parties, it was to take an objective approach to economic performance of Turkey

 

[xenon54 out]

So better to stay out of it,i'd say.
I don't think the EU-Turkey saga would be solved tomorrow.
Turkey would probably benefit of a privileged partnership with EU,bot will not fully integrate it. (Don't you guys think so? ? @xenon54 @Sinan @LegionnairE )

Absolutely, Turkish membership in EU wont be good neither for Turkey nor for Europe, priviledged partnership with independen foreign policy is much better, even thought our FP is fvcked up at the moment.

Turkey might be a bigger military power than France one day, it is definitely growing fast. Also, on Geo political issues, Turkey has a direct impact on the Middle East and Russia, than France. Germany, France, the UK, etc, are older stronger economic systems, which China is dwarfing rapidly through building rail and direct links to Europe.

Many Europeans actualy have no clue that Turkey is a bullwark against outer threats against Europe.

 

[AUz]

There is a difference,Turkey is a developping country,so it is normal that they have to improve their infrastructures,while in countries like Germany,Uk,France etc.. they are really developped and do not need mega investments in infrastructures. (Just like in China)

My point exactly.

Turkey hasn't "arrived" yet---and it is ALREADY the undisputed powerhouse of Eastern-Central Europe.

In coming decades, Turkey will be a behemoth power of Europe--with a population of 85 to 90 million people, military larger than any other European power, a strong/developed economy, and a navy that would be able to project power across Mediterranean and even beyond.

Imagine such a great Muslim power sitting on top of Europe (with having most seats in EU parliament)

No wonder French, Germans, Greeks are scared to let Turks in. I mean, European ancestors like Charles the Hammer Martel would be turning in their graves

Only thing that will keep French/UK's lead are nuclear weapons. With average age nearing 50(!!), you can't really build massive armies you know.

 

[mike2000 is back]

EU members doesn't follow orders so Turkey doesn't have to follow orders either. If Turkey joins EU it would get second most influence in Europe after Germany and in couple of decades get more influence than Germany. France can simply not compete without sucking other people's resources and exploiting their countries like in colonial times so France will slowly loose their influence in the world. Especially because Europe and France is getting more and more closed down in a global world. If Turkey joins the EU or not it will be n1 player in Europe. In a decade Turkey will become the sole energy provider of Europe with its pipelines. You don't want to play? let's see how a winter without gas will change your mind. Military is already stronger than French military. Industrialization and educating our work force is also going at lightening speed. Germany knows better. What the frenchies or some smelly eastern member blocks doesn't matter. At the end what Germany thinks is what matters. The entry rules of EU can always change.

Lool you are militarily stronger than france? Industrialization and workforce etc?
whats going on with some Turks on here? Defies any logic.

 

[AUz]

Mate, i want to say that "Turkey is not financing these mega projects".

We are using the "build operate transfer" method.

Well, aren't majority of financiers of third airport are Turkish? (Turkish banks, government, lenders etc?)

So it doesn't matter much what method Turkish government is using. Turkey isn't using "foreign lending" to finance majority of projects.

Foreign investments =/= foreign lending btw

 

[mike2000 is back]

There is a difference,Turkey is a developping country,so it is normal that they have to improve their infrastructures,while in countries like Germany,Uk,France etc.. they are really developped and do not need mega investments in infrastructures. (Just like in China)
(BTW,the French budget deficit is near ~3.8% this year,and 3.3% the next (With public spending that is more than Turkey's GDP!),they could reduce the deficit,but do not make "radical reforms",and when they have to cut,you'll have everyone striking in the streets and then engaging an urban warfare with the Police....)

Lool Are you ok bro? You are actually trying to compare Turkey with France?

Both are not in the same league. Turkeys league is with the likes of Iran, Indonesia , Egypt etc.

 

[Gabriel92]

My point exactly.

Turkey hasn't "arrived" yet---and it is ALREADY the undisputed powerhouse of Eastern-Central Europe.

In coming decades, Turkey will be a behemoth power of Europe--with a population of 85 to 90 million people, military larger than any other European power, a strong/developed economy, and a navy that would be able to project power across Mediterranean and even beyond.

Imagine such a great Muslim power sitting on top of Europe (with having most seats in EU parliament)

No wonder French, Germans, Greeks are scared to let Turks in. I mean, European ancestors like Charles the Hammer Martel would be turning in their graves

Only thing that will keep French/UK's lead are nuclear weapons. With average age nearing 50(!!), you can't really build massive armies you know.

Ok,so what will Turkey do with massive army ? Invade us or what ?

Lool Are you ok bro? You are actually trying to compare Turkey with France?

Both are not in the same league. Turkeys league is with the likes of Iran, Indonesia , Egypt etc.

Yeah,i don't know why i even bother to reply.
The guy basicaly acts more Turk than the Turks themselves,Turks are doing their own business,he should focus on his "country."

Lool you are militarily stronger than france? Industrialization and workforce etc?
whats going on with some Turks on here? Defies any logic.

It is "atatwolf",what did you think ?

 

[LegionnairE]

what the f is going on in here? why the urine race?

Turkey and France's spheres of influence aren't even close to each other

I can't even think of a hypothetical scenario Turkey and France would fight
we're on the same side in Syria right? NATO collectively supports the rebels

I see childish posts here and it makes me want to go off forum and do something more meaningful

 

[mrexil]

Ok,so what will Turkey do with massive army ? Invade us or what ?



Yeah,i don't know why i even bother to reply.
The guy basicaly acts more Turk than the Turks themselves,Turks are doing their own business,he should focus on his "country."



It is "atatwolf",what did you think ?

You are so fucking disrespectful and arrogant you Piece of s****.

I mean what is you fucking Problem, no one gives a ****** about your opinion, but your are debating a whole week about how Bad Turkey compared to France is.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Yeah,i don't know why i even bother to reply.
The guy basicaly acts more Turk than the Turks themselves,Turks are doing their own business,he should focus on his "country."

Well, what do you expect from him? You expect him to say Pakistan is stronger than France militarily and more industrialized etc? Of course he knows his country fuly well. I won't say anymore since we all know the state of his country. So what better way other than to talk up Turkey even though many Turks on here know what he is saying is bullshit.
As i said before, its the same story about immigrants who left their home country for a better life here in the west. They tend to be the most radical/consertive and are more prone to say delusional things than people from their home country. Its a phenomenon i'm yet to understand, i'm working hard on it though.

So i dont see why you are wasting your time comparing Turkey and France, meanwhile everybody in the world knows the position of both countries. Did you see me arguing with him? I just let him carry on with his delusional views, he can carry on for all i care. There are other more important/useful threads on here where we can debate on, not this useless topic comparing Turkey and france etc. Its a huge joke.