Turkey wants to buy 40 new F-16 block70 and 80 F-16 modernization to the Viper standard

[Kaptan Reis]

Turkish systems are designed for the F-16. It would be impossible to integrate Turkish indigenous systems on a totally different fighter jet where we have zero experience in. Its not something like plug and play and you are way to go..

Our current fleet is formed by F-16's. These jets are be able to operate thanks to the maintenence system. Spare parts are a crucial element of this. Wihtout spare parts you cant keep your fleet operating. You really think that the U.S will deliver spare parts for the F-16's if Turkey make such a move?

Its just unrealistic and way too difficult to change a complete fleet. Ismail Demir is bluffing.

you seem to ignore a lot of things, you speak without knowing !!.
the Turks are 'largely' capable of carrying out their F-16s themselves in operational condition (MCO). It was Turkish Aerospace Industries which, through a technology transfer from Lockheed-Martin, had upgraded the Turkish fighter to the Block 50 165 F-16 standard. This know-how is particularly useful in the event of a diplomatic quarrel with the supplier country.

This is a huge advantage. From the moment the United States gave the Turks the means to make the MCO (maintenance in operational conditions ) of their aircraft.


"If the process [purchase and upgrade of the F-16] does not bring results, Turkey will not be left without an alternative. If necessary, the subject of the Su-35 and Su-57 can be opened at any time," Turkish Defense Minister Ismail Demir insisted on October 18.

 

[Foinikas]

At the end of the day everything is possible. The question is how realistic it is for Turkey to swap their fleet to a Russian fleet. The only thing you say is ''its possible if you spend extra billions of dollars''. HOW? How you gonna make this possible? Give us a realistic view of it. In what time you will receive the first jets? In what time the personel will be trained for it? In what time you going to create a maintenance system, spare parts availability and a weapon stock? In what time you going to adjust all the defence companies current designs and products that are developed for F-16's only? All other projects are based on NATO standards... In what time our engineers will be able to change the whole avionic technology in the Ozgur project so that it will suit the Russian fighter jet? Will the U.S deliver spare parts for the current F-16 fleet the moment we decide to swap our fleet to a Russian fleet? Let alone the spare parts, will they even deliver F110 engines for the TF-X??? Our Air Force is able to operatore for 3+ years with their currect stock of weapons and spare parts if such a sanction happen from the U.S. After that you are not even be able to operate 1 F-16. So you basically tell me that its possible to implement all these things i described above in 3 years? Man you are way out of this world if you think that...

And please dont come with stupid nonsense like that i'm saying that Turkey should be the slave of U.S.

The difference between me and you is that i stay realistic and use facts. The way you think and talk is illogic.

Very very good post. You said it all very well. And one thing I am curious about is how do the Turkish pilots feel about getting Russian jet fighters.

 

[MMM-E]

I am curious about is how do the Turkish pilots feel about getting Russian jet fighters.

Egyptian Pilots use F-16 , Rafale , Mirage-2000 , MIG-29M2 , SU-35


and who cares about Turkish Pilots ?

drive Ferrari or Lamborghini

 

[Foinikas]

Egyptian Pilots use F-16 , Rafale , Mirage-2000 , MIG-29M2 , SU-35


and who cares about Turkish Pilots ?

drive Ferrari or Lamborghini

I'm curious as to what their thoughts are. Of course if the government decides to get Su-30s or Su-35s or Su- 57s,they will fly them. Of course they will fly them. But I wonder what their thoughts and feelings are about getting Russian jet fighters when they've been using F-16s and Phantoms for decades. I'm sure they will find it interesting though.

 

[Foinikas]

Letter from US MPs to Blinken on Turkey: Sale and Upgrade of F-16s Unacceptable | ATHENS 9,84

US lawmakers in Congress are trying to curb the approval of the sale of new F-16 fighter jets to Turkey. In a cross-party letter, which is currently being collected, US lawmakers have expressed opposition to Secretary of State Anthony Blinken for both the acquisition of new F-16 fighter jets and...

www.athina984.gr

According to the letter, "earlier this month, it was reported that Turkey had requested the purchase of" 40 Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets and the modernization of almost 80 of its existing fighter jets ". On October 17, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters that the United States had "offered to sell a batch of F-16 fighter jets," but the alleged sale has not yet been confirmed. We note that the State Department declined to answer questions about the letter of interest, citing its policy of not commenting on letters of interest prior to briefing Congress. "We believe that the wide media coverage of Turkey's request, as well as the statements made by President Erdogan himself, provide us with a sufficient basis to state our opposition to this possible sale."

Continuing, US lawmakers warn the Secretary of State that a possible upgrade of Turkish F-16s carries risks due to the fact that Ankara continues to possess the Russian S-400 system. "One of the reasons why Congress insisted on rejecting Turkey from the F-35 program was the significant dangers associated with the S-400 and F-35 merger. Experts note that the upgrade to Block 70 poses similar risks if Ankara continues to own Russian S-400s. "Given that upgraded F-16s continue to play an important role for both us and our credible allies, this is a risk that we find unacceptable."



Finally, it is worth noting that US lawmakers warn the State Department not to attempt to resort to legal tricks in order to overcome the CAATSA sanctions reef. In fact, as they emphasize, they will not hesitate to take additional legislative action in order to prevent such a development.

"Given the CAATSA sanctions that have already been imposed, we expect that such a sale could only be finalized by trickery - for example, by trying to sell the aircraft to an entity other than the Turkish Defense Industry, which is under sanctions. "We consider such attempts to be a misrepresentation of Congress 'intent, and we will consider additional legislation to limit this potential market if the government insists on ignoring Congress' intent."

 

[Oublious]

Letter from US MPs to Blinken on Turkey: Sale and Upgrade of F-16s Unacceptable | ATHENS 9,84

US lawmakers in Congress are trying to curb the approval of the sale of new F-16 fighter jets to Turkey. In a cross-party letter, which is currently being collected, US lawmakers have expressed opposition to Secretary of State Anthony Blinken for both the acquisition of new F-16 fighter jets and...

www.athina984.gr

According to the letter, "earlier this month, it was reported that Turkey had requested the purchase of" 40 Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets and the modernization of almost 80 of its existing fighter jets ". On October 17, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters that the United States had "offered to sell a batch of F-16 fighter jets," but the alleged sale has not yet been confirmed. We note that the State Department declined to answer questions about the letter of interest, citing its policy of not commenting on letters of interest prior to briefing Congress. "We believe that the wide media coverage of Turkey's request, as well as the statements made by President Erdogan himself, provide us with a sufficient basis to state our opposition to this possible sale."

Continuing, US lawmakers warn the Secretary of State that a possible upgrade of Turkish F-16s carries risks due to the fact that Ankara continues to possess the Russian S-400 system. "One of the reasons why Congress insisted on rejecting Turkey from the F-35 program was the significant dangers associated with the S-400 and F-35 merger. Experts note that the upgrade to Block 70 poses similar risks if Ankara continues to own Russian S-400s. "Given that upgraded F-16s continue to play an important role for both us and our credible allies, this is a risk that we find unacceptable."



Finally, it is worth noting that US lawmakers warn the State Department not to attempt to resort to legal tricks in order to overcome the CAATSA sanctions reef. In fact, as they emphasize, they will not hesitate to take additional legislative action in order to prevent such a development.

"Given the CAATSA sanctions that have already been imposed, we expect that such a sale could only be finalized by trickery - for example, by trying to sell the aircraft to an entity other than the Turkish Defense Industry, which is under sanctions. "We consider such attempts to be a misrepresentation of Congress 'intent, and we will consider additional legislation to limit this potential market if the government insists on ignoring Congress' intent."

If they refuse for Greece becaus of Greece descent senators, Turkey will upgrade every fighter they have in ther inventory. Even the block52+, you made a contract and if you don't want to honour it then we will take our own steps.

The big loser will be Americans because of Greece .

 

[Kaptan Reis]

Letter from US MPs to Blinken on Turkey: Sale and Upgrade of F-16s Unacceptable | ATHENS 9,84

US lawmakers in Congress are trying to curb the approval of the sale of new F-16 fighter jets to Turkey. In a cross-party letter, which is currently being collected, US lawmakers have expressed opposition to Secretary of State Anthony Blinken for both the acquisition of new F-16 fighter jets and...

www.athina984.gr

According to the letter, "earlier this month, it was reported that Turkey had requested the purchase of" 40 Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets and the modernization of almost 80 of its existing fighter jets ". On October 17, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters that the United States had "offered to sell a batch of F-16 fighter jets," but the alleged sale has not yet been confirmed. We note that the State Department declined to answer questions about the letter of interest, citing its policy of not commenting on letters of interest prior to briefing Congress. "We believe that the wide media coverage of Turkey's request, as well as the statements made by President Erdogan himself, provide us with a sufficient basis to state our opposition to this possible sale."

Continuing, US lawmakers warn the Secretary of State that a possible upgrade of Turkish F-16s carries risks due to the fact that Ankara continues to possess the Russian S-400 system. "One of the reasons why Congress insisted on rejecting Turkey from the F-35 program was the significant dangers associated with the S-400 and F-35 merger. Experts note that the upgrade to Block 70 poses similar risks if Ankara continues to own Russian S-400s. "Given that upgraded F-16s continue to play an important role for both us and our credible allies, this is a risk that we find unacceptable."



Finally, it is worth noting that US lawmakers warn the State Department not to attempt to resort to legal tricks in order to overcome the CAATSA sanctions reef. In fact, as they emphasize, they will not hesitate to take additional legislative action in order to prevent such a development.

"Given the CAATSA sanctions that have already been imposed, we expect that such a sale could only be finalized by trickery - for example, by trying to sell the aircraft to an entity other than the Turkish Defense Industry, which is under sanctions. "We consider such attempts to be a misrepresentation of Congress 'intent, and we will consider additional legislation to limit this potential market if the government insists on ignoring Congress' intent."

F-16 or money
either they return the billion dollars with the possibility of buying elsewhere or they sell, anyway the US needs the Turks to sell their F-16s to certain countries.
F-35 parts are still built in Turkey.

 

[War Eagle]

F-16 or money
either they return the billion dollars with the possibility of buying elsewhere or they sell, anyway the US needs the Turks to sell their F-16s to certain countries.
F-35 parts are still built in Turkey.

Or you know... you could get rid of the S-400. I don't really know what's up with the clinging so hard on to it especially since it's never even been deployed. Its an active burden on the Turkish military by keeping the sanctions on it. You think Turkey would get the memo and just drop the S-400, dozens of F-35s and upgraded F-16s are vastly superior and proven weapons compared to the untested and unusable S-400s. It's just truly shocking how much the Turkish Air Force is sacrificing just to keep some useless Russian weapons in storage. Just give it to Azerbaijan or Northern Cyprus.

 

[retaxis]

Or you know... you could get rid of the S-400. I don't really know what's up with the clinging so hard on to it especially since it's never even been deployed. Its an active burden on the Turkish military by keeping the sanctions on it. You think Turkey would get the memo and just drop the S-400, dozens of F-35s and upgraded F-16s are vastly superior and proven weapons compared to the untested and unusable S-400s. It's just truly shocking how much the Turkish Air Force is sacrificing just to keep some useless Russian weapons in storage. Just give it to Azerbaijan or Northern Cyprus.

American weapons are useless against Greece and Israel

 

[Dariush the Great]

Why make the American war companies more richer? Why not establish a regional project instead? Colonial slave mentality continues but in different form.

 

[Trango Towers]

American weapons are useless against Greece and Israel

Looool OK

 

[dBSPL]

TAI facilities were one of the most experienced and successful production lines outside the USA for the final production of F-16s. There are already decades of technical know-how, piloting and training, operational experience, and moreover, all ammunition groups are tessted and developing on these aircraft.

There is a huge difference between the production of a new F-16 for TR and the purchase of another new aircraft. As soon as the test and qualification processes are completed, the produced F-16s have an operative feature and could delivered to the relevant fleet.

If you look at the main strategy of Turkish aviation, there is a risk range of 10-20 years and it is natural to foresee a stop-gap solution for this process. Additional F-16s are the most cost-effective and feasible solution in the short term due to the technical infrastructure they have in Turkiye.

 

[Kaptan Reis]

Or you know... you could get rid of the S-400. I don't really know what's up with the clinging so hard on to it especially since it's never even been deployed. Its an active burden on the Turkish military by keeping the sanctions on it. You think Turkey would get the memo and just drop the S-400, dozens of F-35s and upgraded F-16s are vastly superior and proven weapons compared to the untested and unusable S-400s. It's just truly shocking how much the Turkish Air Force is sacrificing just to keep some useless Russian weapons in storage. Just give it to Azerbaijan or Northern Cyprus.

it's incredible not to understand the reason for the purchase of the S-400s by the Turks, you are blind to this point?, the Turks no longer want the F-35s, the American government knows it very well, it took an excuse. Like the F-16 request, Turkey hopes that the US government will respond with a negative response, this will allow Turkey to have an excuse to end NATO.
You sincerely believe that the Turks still want the F-35 while the US military no longer wants one. This plane would be a big loss for the Turkish army, it would force Turkey to be dependent on the US for another 20 years.

The alternatives exist, we are no longer in the 80s and air-to-air combat is a thing of the past.

 

[War Eagle]

the Turks no longer want the F-35s

That's simply not true. Turkey's F-16s are old, The F-35s were their planned replacements and considering that Turkey is still asking for them, it's pretty clear that Turkey still wants the F-35.

Turkey hopes that the US government will respond with a negative response, this will allow Turkey to have an excuse to end NATO.

Turkey isn't leaving NATO. NATO is simply too powerful and too influential of an institution for Turkey to leave.

ou sincerely believe that the Turks still want the F-35 while the US military no longer wants one.

That's wrong. The F-35 is still the planned replacement for U.S F-16s.

. This plane would be a big loss for the Turkish army, it would force Turkey to be dependent on the US for another 20 years.

Considering that The F-35 program has been of considerable benefit to the Turkish defense industry and Turkish defense companies who took part in lucrative multi-billion dollar supply contracts, I doubt that.

we are no longer in the 80s and air-to-air combat is a thing of the past.

The F-35 was not made for dog fighting. It was made to air to ground strikes. It's a stealth strike fighter. The type of aircraft that the Turkish air force needs since the majority of Turkish air operations are ground strikes especially considering that Russian air defenses have flooded your southern and northern neighbors in Syria and Ukraine.

The F-35 is what the Turkish air force needs.

 

[Kaptan Reis]

That's simply not true. Turkey's F-16s are old, The F-35s were their planned replacements and considering that Turkey is still asking for them, it's pretty clear that Turkey still wants the F-35.



Turkey isn't leaving NATO. NATO is simply too powerful and too influential of an institution for Turkey to leave.



That's wrong. The F-35 is still the planned replacement for U.S F-16s.



Considering that The F-35 program has been of considerable benefit to the Turkish defense industry and Turkish defense companies who took part in lucrative multi-billion dollar supply contracts, I doubt that.



The F-35 was not made for dog fighting. It was made to air to ground strikes. It's a stealth strike fighter. The type of aircraft that the Turkish air force needs since the majority of Turkish air operations are ground strikes especially considering that Russian air defenses have flooded your southern and northern neighbors in Syria and Ukraine.

The F-35 is what the Turkish air force needs.

the issue of the Fail35 is settled for Turkey, if the Turks really wanted this aircraft they would never have bought the S-400, there is a second batch of S-400 that should arrive.
An agreement provides for the construction of certain elements of the S-400 in Turkey.

The Hürjet will do the job to replace the Air Force's F-16s and T-38s.
This will allow you to wait for the arrival of the TF-X

As some Turkish officials acknowledge, the F-35 is no longer part of Turkish projects.
When the Turks learned that the F-35s intended for the Turks were an underdeveloped model and limited compared to other countries (israel) , they made sure that it was the US that ended the contract, on the one hand the Turks will recover their investments on the other hand, they continue to manufacture the 800 elements of the Fail35 in Turkey.

Turkey was more fortunate in this regard, which first took part in the F-35 project and was to buy a hundred fighter jets of this type. However, Erdogan's purchase of S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems from Russia led to the offended Washington excluding Ankara from the F-35 program and canceling the Turkish order.

If the Turks can now breathe easy, the rest of the US allies and satellites are forced to follow the high-level lobbyists of Lockheed Martin.

this aircraft product, which looks more like a semi-finished product, is being introduced extensively by Lockheed Martin Corporation in all countries controlled by the United States, and in large quantities. Taking into account that the cost of an aircraft is $ 120-130 million without taking into account operating costs, it can inflict truly irreparable damage to the military budget. A single hour of flight for an F-35 costs about $ 50,000. If in the United States such costs represent a very heavy burden on the military budget,

Thanks US for cooperation and bye.