lastofthepatriots
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I hope she was a girl otherwise the time she was talking about attractive guys was disturbing.
Turkey lifts ban on head scarf in Army for female soldiers.
- Thread starter Foxtrot Delta
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mike2000 is back
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Yes follow the Iranian islamic state mullah model.
Jokes aside, I don't think this move is something to be particularly alarmed about, allowing women serving in the Army to wear the full veil shouldn't be a concern. What should be worrying is Erdogan's support and harboring of some elements/members from Islamic extremist groups like Hamas ,Muslim brotherhood etc.
I don't think he needed to drastically change Turkey's political/religious policies when he assumed office. As they say why change a winning team or better still why fix something that isn't broken'?
Yes follow the Iranian islamic state mullah model.
Jokes aside, I don't think this move is something to be particularly alarmed about, allowing women serving in the Army to wear the full veil shouldn't be a concern. What should be worrying is Erdogan's support and harboring of some elements/members from Islamic extremist groups like Hamas ,Muslim brotherhood etc.
I don't think he needed to drastically change Turkey's political/religious policies when he assumed office. As they say why change a winning team or better still why fix something that isn't broken'?
It isn't a full veil - it's a headscarf.
No way would any professional army allow a woman to wear a full veil in battle
hussain0216
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Great News
Turkish muslims have had decades of oppressive laws like banning education for hijabed girls etc
Turkish muslims have had decades of oppressive laws like banning education for hijabed girls etc
The Eagle
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I hope, this will be the last time that I will repeat the trick to get-along yet expressing your opinions as well.
Rather than quoting back an offensive post and then reporting the same wouldn't change much because both will be treated as same. I repeat, do not quote such posts and report simply. I hope wouldn't be needed to pate same sentence that I have been saying couple of days for you and other members as well.
You are free and independent to express your views and there is no ban for specific mind until & unless, post(s) made do not cross the line or goes against Forum Rules.
Hopefully, I have been as simple as I can to clarify it being convenient for everyone to follow. Digging old posts and reporting them for revenge is also not a wise thing to do so against current scenario so, have a nice discussion, don't go off-topic or act against the forum rules which are to be followed by everyone only to maintain the decorum and mannered discussion.
If any member is accusing you or anyone else or is posting offensive remarks etc, report immediately and do not quote back. Any member banned from specific thread/section is only because of continuous violation so the offender shows progress, gets back the access.
Regards,
Bubblegum Crisis
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Quote 1:
Coming Soon to the U.S. Army: Turbans, Beards, Hijabs, and Dreadlocks
In the final days of the Obama administration, the military has issued new guidelines for religious accommodations and dress.
Emma Green
Jan 4, 2017
Updated 6:01 p.m. EST
The Army has issued a new regulation: Effective immediately, brigade-level commanders will be able to grant accommodations to servicemen and women who wear beards, turbans, or hijabs for religious reasons—the three most common requests for waivers to current guidelines on grooming and dress, according to a letter from the Secretary of the Army, Eric Fanning. The new guidelines also revise hairstyle standards for female soldiers: They can now wear dreadlocks in addition to cornrows and twists, which were allowed in a revision made in 2014. Like other hairstyles, locks must be relatively small, uniform, neat, and tied off inconspicuously, and women don’t have to request an accommodation to wear them.
This might seem like an odd choice for a policy directive in the final days of the Obama administration. It came about largely in response to litigation and advocacy from Sikh servicemen who wear beards and turbans for religious reasons, and who wanted to be able to keep them while actively serving. While this ruling will make a big difference for those soldiers, there are very few of them. Eric Baxter, an attorney at the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, one of the firms that has been advocating on behalf of the Sikh soldiers, attributed the timing to fear of continued litigation. “The pressure of the lawsuit was a significant factor in deciding this needs to be finished,” he said. “The time had just come when it was no longer possible to make excuses for why Sikhs need to be excluded.”
It’s possible that the Army felt it had no options and wanted to put the issue to rest, but also possible the directive reflects some other unstated motive. Regardless of the intent, though, this regulation sends a signal: It makes the Army more inclusive of minority religions and cultures, right as Donald Trump prepares to take office.
The new regulations are a response to a long-standing issue within the military. In the 1986, the Supreme Court heard a case brought by an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, Simcha Goldman, who had been forbidden by the Air Force to wear a yarmulke while on duty and in uniform. The Court deferred to the military. In response, Congress passed a rule stating that servicemen should be able to wear religious apparel. “When you look at the legislative history for that law, Congress spoke openly about the need to accommodate Sikhs and Jews,” said Baxter. “But the military has always construed it as only applying to the yarmulke.”
Over the years, military officers have regularly dealt with requests for religious exemptions to various rules. Douglas Carver, a Southern Baptist minister who is the former chief chaplain for the Army, said he faced his first religious exemption requests almost as soon as he became a chaplain. When he retired from service in 2011, the conversation about a possible dress-code revision had already been happening for years, he said. “The military is strong on tradition and order. When you’re going to have someone who looks different in the ranks, it takes a lot of discussion and exploration and advisement.”
Recently, Sikhs have taken up the cause. Within the last year, several serviceman have sued the Army to be able to keep their turbans and beards. Until now, the Army has responded with temporary fixes—exemptions granted on a limited, case-by-case basis. The military expressed safety concerns about the way beards or other headwear might undermine the effectiveness of gear, and began conducting studies about the feasibility of broader exemptions.
Over time, these exemptions provided evidence that soldiers could successfully serve while wearing non-standard dress, according to Fanning’s letter. Now, officers across the military will be able to address requests for religious exemptions with the guidance of the Chaplain Corps, which is responsible for training service units on the new rules. Once an accommodation has been granted, it can only be permanently revoked by the secretary of the Army or his designee. The military will also continue testing for safety hazards; for now, soldiers with religious accommodations are restricted from serving in positions involving toxic chemicals and other potentially dangerous substances.
Carver sees the new regulation as an accomplishment for the Army. Faith is a major part of many service members’ lives; religious affiliation is even listed on soldiers’ dog tags, he pointed out. “You are prepared to go into harm’s way, even to die, and practice of your religious belief brings courage and calmness,” he said. “A soldier should not have to feel that he’s about to give his life for his country, but that he doesn’t want to compromise his individual faith or practices.”
The new policy seems to be in keeping with other military policies set during the Obama administration. In June, Secretary of Defense Ash Carter announced a new policy allowing transgender service members to serve openly. “We can’t allow barriers unrelated to a person’s qualifications prevent us from recruiting and retaining those who can best accomplish the mission,” he said. The new regulations on religious dress and hairstyles address a different issue, but they still accomplish the same basic goal: They make the largest branch of the military more inclusive, and allow more Americans to serve their country.
The Atlantic.com
...
Quote 2 :
U.S. Army eases rules on beards, turbans for Muslim, Sikh troops
U.S. | Thu Jan 5, 2017 | 2:17pm EST
By David Alexander | WASHINGTON
The U.S. Army has taken new steps to make it easier for Sikhs, Muslims and other religious minorities to obtain approval to dress and groom themselves according to their religious customs while serving in the military, a spokesman said on Thursday.
Army Secretary Eric Fanning, in a memorandum signed this week, revised the uniform policy to set appearance standards for people seeking religious accommodations to wear beards, turbans and head scarfs.
The new rules also enable brigade-level commanders to approve the religious accommodations, an authority that previously rested with the Army secretary. Denial of a religious accommodation may be appealed as high as the Army secretary.
An approved religious accommodation will continue throughout the soldier's career and may not be revoked or modified without approval of the Army secretary, the memo says. The accommodation will not affect job specialties or duty locations, except in a few limited cases, the memo says.
"Our goal is to balance soldier readiness and safety with the accommodation of our soldiers' faith practices, and this latest directive allows us to do that," Lieutenant Colonel Randy Taylor said in a statement.
The new rules were welcomed by the Sikh Coalition.
"We are pleased with the progress that this new policy represents for religious tolerance and diversity," said coalition Legal Director Harsimran Kaur.
Sikhs have a long tradition of military service in India and elsewhere and have served in the United States as far back as World War One. But uniform reforms after the Vietnam War made it difficult for them to serve without violating the tenets of their faith.
The new rules permit religious accommodations for beards, but they may not be longer than 2 inches unless rolled or tied up. Soldiers with a religious accommodation may wear a turban or under-turban known as a patka.
Soldiers with religious accommodations still must be able to wear combat helmets and other protective headgear and must modify their hairstyles to achieve a proper fit.
The new rules allow head scarfs, or hijabs, for Muslim women. They must be of a similar color to the uniform and be free of designs or markings, unless they are camouflage and worn with a camouflage uniform.
Hair grooming rules have been amended to allow for braids, cornrows, twists or locks, the memo said.
(Reporting by David Alexander; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn)
Reuters
...
Quote 1:
Coming Soon to the U.S. Army: Turbans, Beards, Hijabs, and Dreadlocks
In the final days of the Obama administration, the military has issued new guidelines for religious accommodations and dress.
Emma Green
Jan 4, 2017
Updated 6:01 p.m. EST
The Army has issued a new regulation: Effective immediately, brigade-level commanders will be able to grant accommodations to servicemen and women who wear beards, turbans, or hijabs for religious reasons—the three most common requests for waivers to current guidelines on grooming and dress, according to a letter from the Secretary of the Army, Eric Fanning. The new guidelines also revise hairstyle standards for female soldiers: They can now wear dreadlocks in addition to cornrows and twists, which were allowed in a revision made in 2014. Like other hairstyles, locks must be relatively small, uniform, neat, and tied off inconspicuously, and women don’t have to request an accommodation to wear them.
This might seem like an odd choice for a policy directive in the final days of the Obama administration. It came about largely in response to litigation and advocacy from Sikh servicemen who wear beards and turbans for religious reasons, and who wanted to be able to keep them while actively serving. While this ruling will make a big difference for those soldiers, there are very few of them. Eric Baxter, an attorney at the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, one of the firms that has been advocating on behalf of the Sikh soldiers, attributed the timing to fear of continued litigation. “The pressure of the lawsuit was a significant factor in deciding this needs to be finished,” he said. “The time had just come when it was no longer possible to make excuses for why Sikhs need to be excluded.”
It’s possible that the Army felt it had no options and wanted to put the issue to rest, but also possible the directive reflects some other unstated motive. Regardless of the intent, though, this regulation sends a signal: It makes the Army more inclusive of minority religions and cultures, right as Donald Trump prepares to take office.
The new regulations are a response to a long-standing issue within the military. In the 1986, the Supreme Court heard a case brought by an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, Simcha Goldman, who had been forbidden by the Air Force to wear a yarmulke while on duty and in uniform. The Court deferred to the military. In response, Congress passed a rule stating that servicemen should be able to wear religious apparel. “When you look at the legislative history for that law, Congress spoke openly about the need to accommodate Sikhs and Jews,” said Baxter. “But the military has always construed it as only applying to the yarmulke.”
Over the years, military officers have regularly dealt with requests for religious exemptions to various rules. Douglas Carver, a Southern Baptist minister who is the former chief chaplain for the Army, said he faced his first religious exemption requests almost as soon as he became a chaplain. When he retired from service in 2011, the conversation about a possible dress-code revision had already been happening for years, he said. “The military is strong on tradition and order. When you’re going to have someone who looks different in the ranks, it takes a lot of discussion and exploration and advisement.”
Recently, Sikhs have taken up the cause. Within the last year, several serviceman have sued the Army to be able to keep their turbans and beards. Until now, the Army has responded with temporary fixes—exemptions granted on a limited, case-by-case basis. The military expressed safety concerns about the way beards or other headwear might undermine the effectiveness of gear, and began conducting studies about the feasibility of broader exemptions.
Over time, these exemptions provided evidence that soldiers could successfully serve while wearing non-standard dress, according to Fanning’s letter. Now, officers across the military will be able to address requests for religious exemptions with the guidance of the Chaplain Corps, which is responsible for training service units on the new rules. Once an accommodation has been granted, it can only be permanently revoked by the secretary of the Army or his designee. The military will also continue testing for safety hazards; for now, soldiers with religious accommodations are restricted from serving in positions involving toxic chemicals and other potentially dangerous substances.
Carver sees the new regulation as an accomplishment for the Army. Faith is a major part of many service members’ lives; religious affiliation is even listed on soldiers’ dog tags, he pointed out. “You are prepared to go into harm’s way, even to die, and practice of your religious belief brings courage and calmness,” he said. “A soldier should not have to feel that he’s about to give his life for his country, but that he doesn’t want to compromise his individual faith or practices.”
The new policy seems to be in keeping with other military policies set during the Obama administration. In June, Secretary of Defense Ash Carter announced a new policy allowing transgender service members to serve openly. “We can’t allow barriers unrelated to a person’s qualifications prevent us from recruiting and retaining those who can best accomplish the mission,” he said. The new regulations on religious dress and hairstyles address a different issue, but they still accomplish the same basic goal: They make the largest branch of the military more inclusive, and allow more Americans to serve their country.
The Atlantic.com
...
Quote 2 :
U.S. Army eases rules on beards, turbans for Muslim, Sikh troops
U.S. | Thu Jan 5, 2017 | 2:17pm EST
By David Alexander | WASHINGTON
The U.S. Army has taken new steps to make it easier for Sikhs, Muslims and other religious minorities to obtain approval to dress and groom themselves according to their religious customs while serving in the military, a spokesman said on Thursday.
Army Secretary Eric Fanning, in a memorandum signed this week, revised the uniform policy to set appearance standards for people seeking religious accommodations to wear beards, turbans and head scarfs.
The new rules also enable brigade-level commanders to approve the religious accommodations, an authority that previously rested with the Army secretary. Denial of a religious accommodation may be appealed as high as the Army secretary.
An approved religious accommodation will continue throughout the soldier's career and may not be revoked or modified without approval of the Army secretary, the memo says. The accommodation will not affect job specialties or duty locations, except in a few limited cases, the memo says.
"Our goal is to balance soldier readiness and safety with the accommodation of our soldiers' faith practices, and this latest directive allows us to do that," Lieutenant Colonel Randy Taylor said in a statement.
The new rules were welcomed by the Sikh Coalition.
"We are pleased with the progress that this new policy represents for religious tolerance and diversity," said coalition Legal Director Harsimran Kaur.
Sikhs have a long tradition of military service in India and elsewhere and have served in the United States as far back as World War One. But uniform reforms after the Vietnam War made it difficult for them to serve without violating the tenets of their faith.
The new rules permit religious accommodations for beards, but they may not be longer than 2 inches unless rolled or tied up. Soldiers with a religious accommodation may wear a turban or under-turban known as a patka.
Soldiers with religious accommodations still must be able to wear combat helmets and other protective headgear and must modify their hairstyles to achieve a proper fit.
The new rules allow head scarfs, or hijabs, for Muslim women. They must be of a similar color to the uniform and be free of designs or markings, unless they are camouflage and worn with a camouflage uniform.
Hair grooming rules have been amended to allow for braids, cornrows, twists or locks, the memo said.
(Reporting by David Alexander; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn)
Reuters
...
Last edited:
what i find astonishing is that majority of islamists. who hate secularism or secular life style are living in europe which is secular and kaffir a the same time.oh the irony. there should be a rule if you don't like or appreciate the secular life style of europe you should be depotred to wherever place you come from...
Don't you live in US ?
Anyways this move don't menace the secular state, allowing it and forcing it are two differnt thing.
Specialy when some western country already authorised the headscraft what do you complain for ?
Bubblegum Crisis
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Islamic faith&Secularism
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Secularism and laicism is what made the difference between Turkey and other muslim dominated countries like Pakistan,Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc.
However, you think otherwise.
What Secularism and laicism mean for you?
Neptune
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Dude (and for every other damn post that emphasizes the Western European armies on this) ..whatever the decision we or our politicians take, on issues like this let me make us clear: the Turkish Armed Forces does not give a fu*k or get affected by what other militaries do on issues like this (e.g headscarf).
So please everyone stop sharing pictures like that on this topic it won't help. Having secular military components has nothing to do with that of Europe or USA's; unlike your armies.
And for foreign members, we respect your contributions. I did my time close to 4 years at the Navy and one year as a commando in Gendarmerie. Sinan did his time as Artillery and like him, every other Turk here has done his military service. Even for those that contradict with my opinion, they don't talk nonsense, they speak by experience. But in this topic please guys stop acting like you're a pro on the internal matters of Turkish Armed Forces which even being a Turk doesn't necessarily make you understand the issue fully. It's not arrogant but also funny.
Pardon my harsh language but reading all those 5 pages long posts gave me no chance.
Last edited:
Sam.
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Only a guy in uniform will respect and understand your feelings.
On personal level i feel Ataturk is dying.
Oh stop with this....Nobody want to end the secularism but to adapt it to the society. A regid secularism will only make people hate it and don't understant it. Some people are convinced that secular means anti-religions rather than everybody is free with his religion because of kemalist extrem secularism.
In US the president, military officier, and even judge swear by the bible....I don't even imagine some kemalist reaction if Erdogan govt wanted to do the same thing...
Anyways no need to take exemple with SA, Iran, or other country....Turks has always diffrent than them, Ottoman Empire in 16 siecle was more liberal than any EU country, and even more liberal than SA today.
Islamic faith&Secularism
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I am waiting for the counter argument from @Kaptaan as role model for your kind, once he posts it, we will see who is who.
Be patient please.
Timur
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if you look at islamic perspective there is absolutly no secularism.. secularisim is antiislamic and batil.. no way for a sincere muslim to accept secularism.. dont fool yourself its like cutting pork helal way absolutly unimaginable
we could recite quran for an answer..
...Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater. We have certainly made clear to you the signs, if you will use reason....
Al imran 3 : 118
Oguzhan
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I will support veil in army only when woman give birth to daughters with veils
+
Veil got into Turkey after 70s as a "radicalism" symbol as a group of people, back then, there were no veils in any case, but we have full black veil indeed, actually turban but i dont wanna use it since it indicated an indian wear
+
Veil got into Turkey after 70s as a "radicalism" symbol as a group of people, back then, there were no veils in any case, but we have full black veil indeed, actually turban but i dont wanna use it since it indicated an indian wear
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