TTP will not attack Pakistan Army

[alibaz]

Sir the system is not according to Islam we have different system without any lawyers Sir first study Islam and please than come

Sir, you think all those practices which were not practiced during prophet's (PBUH) are not Islamic and what I think is, all those things which donot contradict spirit of Islam are very much Islamic. What presence or absence of lawyer has to do with Islam, in today's era of specialization, it's good to have someone who can guide or speak for you in disciplined manner. I also suggest you the same as you suggested me to first study Islam and then come. Better have some deliberations on Ijtihad and kayas, why Islam allows for a collective thought while keeping basic principles of Islam under consideration and even individual thoughts and decision in special situations.

there is a complete islamic system implemented in Saudia and Iran. As he says this is bullshit which version of Islam is to be implemented. Go live in those countries and see what Islam you want to implement here and dont give that crap again there is no Islamic system in both countries.

I have serious differences with both systems cause I believe they are there to support their regimes any ways I don't contest your thought about them being true Islamic. Just consider their sectarian composition and Pakistan's composition. I think we can't have any of the models we have to devise something of our own.

 

[Solomon2]

They killed our thousands of soldiers and now they are saying that they will not attack on Pak army. Don't trust those truculent people

Presumably the TTP is granting permission to the P.A. to rotate or resupply the troops based there that serve as hostages ensuring the Army's good behavior. It's a temporary thing.

 

[babajees]

If you are allergic to bullshit so please point in last 1000 years, Which dynasty or country has implemented islam word by word? if i remember correctly, last it was Umar bin Abdul Aziz reign of 3 years which saw a revival of khilafat e rashida system After that who did it?

You are suggesting us to cut the crap yet you are doing the same that we will bring islam by bloddy revolution or blah blah. Whenour ancestors were not able to do it in 1000 years, nor you or I can do it. Talk is cheap on internet.

What about the Taliban era in Afghanistan? Peace every where. No drugs. No fahashi. No crime. Yes, there is a difference of opinion regarding treatment of women, but they needed time to segregate the school and universities... it wasnt like khilafat e rashida but close..

Also, salahuddin ayubis era. Etc

 

[MadDog]

Presumably the TTP is granting permission to the P.A. to rotate or resupply the troops based there that serve as hostages ensuring the Army's good behavior. It's a temporary thing.

Mr Solomon, we are not NATO, we have crushed TTP in its hometown of South Waziristan..they escaped to NWA and mixed with other groups to save themselves from the wrath of PA. Look here even the Afghan Taliban fear Pakistani intelligence....lol and u r talking about PA being the hostage...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...hey-were-tortured-pakistani-intelligence.html

A talib commander after being released from prison in Pak, says “Pakistan and its secret service are the enemy No. 1 of Afghans and the Islamic movement,” says the commander, who was arrested at his house in Quetta in 2008. “Pakistan is not only breaking the backbone of the Taliban, it is also crushing the bones of the Islamic movement.”

Yet u and people like u with a hidden delusional agenda claim that Pakistan is in bed with them.

 

[Solomon2]

...we are not NATO, we have crushed TTP in its hometown...and u r talking about PA being the hostage...

Yes, I am.

Yet u and people like u with a hidden delusional agenda claim that Pakistan is in bed with them.

Mods delete my discussion threads on this matter so it isn't MY choice that it's "hidden", is it? As for "delusional" that may simply appear to be the case because the P.A. is intent on hiding the truth as reporters can't access the region (or interview soldiers stationed there, it seems) without P.A. permission.

 

[pakdefender]

Yes, I am.

Mods delete my discussion threads on this matter so it isn't MY choice that it's "hidden", is it? As for "delusional" that may simply appear to be the case because the P.A. is intent on hiding the truth as reporters can't access the region (or interview soldiers stationed there, it seems) without P.A. permission.

anyone who flys the banner of defending israel for the cause of humanity has got be one very big delusional bloody fool

 

[Zarvan]

Sir, you think all those practices which were not practiced during prophet's (PBUH) are not Islamic and what I think is, all those things which donot contradict spirit of Islam are very much Islamic. What presence or absence of lawyer has to do with Islam, in today's era of specialization, it's good to have someone who can guide or speak for you in disciplined manner. I also suggest you the same as you suggested me to first study Islam and then come. Better have some deliberations on Ijtihad and kayas, why Islam allows for a collective thought while keeping basic principles of Islam under consideration and even individual thoughts and decision in special situations.



I have serious differences with both systems cause I believe they are there to support their regimes any ways I don't contest your thought about them being true Islamic. Just consider their sectarian composition and Pakistan's composition. I think we can't have any of the models we have to devise something of our own.

Sir Judicial system was established by HAZRAT UMAR RA and we need to revive that system and and make police and evidence collection better and end lawyer system Sir No sir their is no chance of lawyer in Islamic system Sir I study Islam on daily bases Mr I have whole library of Islamic books and I keep reading them on daily bases Sir so please stop telling me and also take help of Ulemas and Ijtiahd and Kayas is not done on those matters which are clear from Quran and Sunnah and Sir individuals thoughts can't come in country matters or world wild and we need to implement Islam not anything else

 

[Solomon2]

anyone who flys the banner of defending israel for the cause of humanity has got be one very big delusional bloody fool

Which is precisely the sort of misinformed prejudice/deliberate self-delusion you need to overcome for the good of yourself and your nation, isn't it? Because this sort of thing is of itself a form of moral corruption, so from here it's no distance at all to cheating anybody for any reason.

 

[alibaz]

Sir Judicial system was established by HAZRAT UMAR RA and we need to revive that system and and make police and evidence collection better and end lawyer system Sir No sir their is no chance of lawyer in Islamic system Sir I study Islam on daily bases Mr I have whole library of Islamic books and I keep reading them on daily bases Sir so please stop telling me and also take help of Ulemas and Ijtiahd and Kayas is not done on those matters which are clear from Quran and Sunnah and Sir individuals thoughts can't come in country matters or world wild and we need to implement Islam not anything else

Sir, the system established by Hazrat Umar RA was on the basis of Islamic teachings and there is no doubt. Now the times have changed a we need to devise and update systems basing on the same principles according to present day needs. Lawer or no Lawer there is no issue but do you think that matters are so simple in present day world that matters pertaing to business, agriculture, interest and property can be addressed in simplest way as mentioned from page 737 to 752 of Minhaj ul Muslimeen. These are guide lines for individuals and state is responsible for making system while considering these guide lines. I didnot advise you to read instead I returned your advise now I again return your advise. Don't you think taking help of ulemas in explaining is same as hiring of a lawer in judicial matters. Actually I have a different perspective of looking at the thing than yours that is why door of Ijtihad have been kept open to update systems while remaining within the parameters defined by Quran and Sunnah.
There are many people who do not agree to the orders of Hazrat Umar RA during his caliphhood and don't be misled by my name for this statement.

 

[Zarvan]

Sir, the system established by Hazrat Umar RA was on the basis of Islamic teachings and there is no doubt. Now the times have changed a we need to devise and update systems basing on the same principles according to present day needs. Lawer or no Lawer there is no issue but do you think that matters are so simple in present day world that matters pertaing to business, agriculture, interest and property can be addressed in simplest way as mentioned from page 737 to 752 of Minhaj ul Muslimeen. These are guide lines for individuals and state is responsible for making system while considering these guide lines. I didnot advise you to read instead I returned your advise now I again return your advise. Don't you think taking help of ulemas in explaining is same as hiring of a lawer in judicial matters. Actually I have a different perspective of looking at the thing than yours that is why door of Ijtihad have been kept open to update systems while remaining within the parameters defined by Quran and Sunnah.
There are many people who do not agree to the orders of Hazrat Umar RA during his caliphhood and don't be misled by my name for this statement.

Sir first help of Ulemas is encouraged in Islam and Ulemas have very great status in Islam and I also read books Sir Islam has a complete system and governments have to implement them and if they will no do it than sooner or later people will rise up and do it even if they have go through a blood bath and Islam has a complete economic system and Ulemas will decide and tell government what to allow and and what to banned and which methods would be allowed Ijtiahd is not done on matters which are clear from Quran and Sunnah that is a decided matter Sir those things which are clear from Quran and Sunnah don't need to be updated Sir and no body disagreed with HAZRAT UMAR RA on economic policies Sir or orders of Islam because their is no chance of disagreeing Sir

 

[alibaz]

Sir first help of Ulemas is encouraged in Islam and Ulemas have very great status in Islam and I also read books Sir Islam has a complete system and governments have to implement them and if they will no do it than sooner or later people will rise up and do it even if they have go through a blood bath and Islam has a complete economic system and Ulemas will decide and tell government what to allow and and what to banned and which methods would be allowed Ijtiahd is not done on matters which are clear from Quran and Sunnah that is a decided matter Sir those things which are clear from Quran and Sunnah don't need to be updated Sir and no body disagreed with HAZRAT UMAR RA on economic policies Sir or orders of Islam because their is no chance of disagreeing Sir

Don't you think lawer is Alim of law, if it is right and desirable as you say for Ulema than whats wrong with lawer. Corrupt practice does not make a system faulty, its the individual and his deed which is wrong not the system. Constitution of Pakistan says there will be no legislation against Quran and Sunnah and people have right to contest their view point. If you think something wrong my learned sir can always approach Shariah court or Islamic idiolagical council to contest such laws. People will rise up only when someone putsup a plan or system to evaluate not just by saying as it was in the period of four Caliphs. You say nothing can be updated than why there was Ijtihad for timings of Rummy during Haj. Anyways I close my discussion cause we both are on very different wavelengths.

 

[Zarvan]

Don't you think lawer is Alim of law, if it is right and desirable as you say for Ulema than whats wrong with lawer. Corrupt practice does not make a system faulty, its the individual and his deed which is wrong not the system. Constitution of Pakistan says there will be no legislation against Quran and Sunnah and people have right to contest their view point. If you think something wrong my learned sir can always approach Shariah court or Islamic idiolagical council to contest such laws. People will rise up only when someone putsup a plan or system to evaluate not just by saying as it was in the period of four Caliphs. You say nothing can be updated than why there was Ijtihad for timings of Rummy during Haj. Anyways I close my discussion cause we both are on very different wavelengths.

Sir lawyer is not needed in Islamic Judicial system in Pakistan most legislation is against Quran and Sunnah both institutes you mentioned the most corrupt ones Sir those points which are clear from Quran and Sunnah no Ijtihad can be done if it is done its kufr that is and people will rise and up take out all those who stand against Islamic system and it will most bloody one

 

[Bratva]

Don't you think lawer is Alim of law, if it is right and desirable as you say for Ulema than whats wrong with lawer. Corrupt practice does not make a system faulty, its the individual and his deed which is wrong not the system. Constitution of Pakistan says there will be no legislation against Quran and Sunnah and people have right to contest their view point. If you think something wrong my learned sir can always approach Shariah court or Islamic idiolagical council to contest such laws. People will rise up only when someone putsup a plan or system to evaluate not just by saying as it was in the period of four Caliphs. You say nothing can be updated than why there was Ijtihad for timings of Rummy during Haj. Anyways I close my discussion cause we both are on very different wavelengths.

You see the narrow mindedness of Zarvan, that's why Islam is not being implemented. It's the 21st century and we are not the tribals of that 7th century. Zarvan wants to replicate the tribal culture on which islam was imposed same to same on an non tribal country.

No matter how bloody he talks, how he emotional he gets, he will not get what he wants. Why? Because People want Islamic system which reflects the 21st century.They want economical and social stability. Than they will consider about Islamic system. He will keep on parroting his rigid thoughts but nobody will pay heed to him. Because what he dictates is can not be imposed on Pakistan. That's why we have not seen any Bloody revolution or anything else that he so fondly talks about. If he can not adopt according the recent trends of society, than he will not get what he wants because All the muslim preachers who converted muslims in indian subcontinent and all over the world adopted their culture and their trends and live according to them then those locals were attracted to Islam. Not that they forced their selves onto them

This rigidity of minds has caused afghanistan a great deal of loss and who ever thinks like it, will be at loss to.

Talking about afghanistan, If their system was so close to Islam, than why did they kill so many Shia's? How much economy propsered due to their Islamic system? How much education and social uplift did we see? How much scientific advancements we see?

Last time i know, All the muslim scientists of ancient era became famous because they lived under the rulers who had moderate and progressive minds, Not under some rigid minds who would declare Astronomy and astrology and philosophy was against the teachings of Islam so they should not be taught or learned by anyone.

 

[babajees]

You see the narrow mindedness of Zarvan, that's why Islam is not being implemented. It's the 21st century and we are not the tribals of that 7th century.

Yes. Its all Zarvan's fault. SHAME on yiu Zarvan.
On a serious note, the laws of Islam dont change if its the 7th centruy or the 70th. Quran is for eternity now. Interest (sood) cannot just become legal because it is the norm nowadays etc etc. Pardah doesnt get eliminated because it was so old fashioned. These and other laws were not tribal but in quran.


Regarding Afghanistan, just answer one question. How much time did you give to the taliban? In the short time they had they eliminated drugs and crime (which no other country has been able to do, mind you) gave protection to women (read the UK chief of army staffs comment in this regard.. a woman could travel alone from kandhar to kabul laren eith jewellery)
Yes I agree they didn't make much headway in education esp regarding women because they didnt get time. They wanted to segregate the universities and schools first and make it safe for women to travel etc.. so that univ going girls dont get raped and thrown of buses.

Edit: Regarding shias. They only killed shias belonging to the northern alliance (along with sunnis) because thr NA was opposed to thr Islamic system. AND the proof you can see now. Who helped Americans ane established the corrupt govt in Afghanistan right now? NA

 

[Bratva]

Yes. Its all Zarvan's fault. SHAME on yiu Zarvan.
On a serious note, the laws of Islam dont change if its the 7th centruy or the 70th. Quran is for eternity now. Interest (sood) cannot just become legal because it is the norm nowadays etc etc. Pardah doesnt get eliminated because it was so old fashioned. These and other laws were not tribal but in quran.

That's the classic example of quoting out of context. I was talking about his stance that lawyers are not allowed in Islam. Nobody written anywhere in Quran or Sunnah that A person cannot represent another person in matter of religion or law if person he is representing is not knowledgeable or illetrate. Yet his rigidness cannot see beyond that it's not allowed in Islam. WTF? Does he forget the Ayyah of Surah Baqrah "There is no complusion in Islam"?

I presented my view earlier,,, Until islam became dominate, we can not eliminate Soodi nizam from our weak position. The major trade partners of Pakistan are Kafirs, not muslims. So get your priority sets before asking to implement Islam.So If you try to implement islam from your weak position, you will become KHARJI and will spread Fitnah.

Just a question to Zarvan, During the reign of Hazrat Ali (R.A) Why kharjis demanded to implement Islam when Islamic system was already being followed than?

And regarding Pardah. It's the individual's act, just like Prayers. Nobody forces you to pray everyday, It's your own choice weather to pray or not because everyone is answerable to his/her own deeds.