Threat to Pakistan emanates from " INDIA managed " Afghan soil ; generals told

[M. Sarmad]

Rejection, if there is any comes from the toxic theories from Deoband in India and Mullah in Qom. Cut that link.

And what makes you think that cutting those links (is that even possible ?) will make Pakistani Mullahs change their core beliefs, and it will turn them into patriotic Pakistanis all of a sudden ? You are missing the point. They reject the very idea of a nation state. They reject the very idea that is Pakistan.

 

[shhh]

The same baggae the likes of ANPs, the likes of Achkzais got. You know the history right?

I am asking specifically what you are pointing at. None of our politician are what they should be, this one isn't alone and a lot better than ANPs or Achakzais.

I dont have to repeat myself that Darul olom Deoband, India, is a compromised instituation with strong RAW penetration. Speak to the Indian muslims if you got the chance who are influced by Deoband in India and what they think of Pakistan. I know what I am talking about as I got extended family living in India.

Not sure of Deoband in India but the Indian muslims that I have talked to are very Pro-Pakistanis. But you have the family, you would know better.

But I cant find anything other than lal-topi and other anti-deoband's verbal diarrhea that Deoband are RAW backed all they can point to is history before 1947 or the dead bodies of terrorists.

Mullah are the tools, while who vieled the stick is the higher authority.

I wouldn't say that, Afghan Taliban are Mullahs (who have been an authority) are they have often refused our requests/demands, the only person who can convince a Mullah is a Mullah.

But this is an unnecessary debate with no beneficial outcome, so lets agree to disagree.

Mullah Umer was left high and dry in between Mahmood assurance and Mushy betrayal. This the crux of the issue

That is what I was trying to say, but you said it better, I dont know why would people say that deobands are the issue.

Rejection, if there is any comes from the toxic theories from Deoband in India and Mullah in Qom. Cut that link.

Although this is not about me but what is Mullah in Qom?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

And what makes you think that cutting those links (is that even possible ?) will make Pakistani Mullahs change their core beliefs, and it will turn them into patriotic Pakistanis all of a sudden ? You are missing the point. They reject the very idea of a nation state. They reject the very idea that is Pakistan.

They are getting constant feed of non sense supplied to them , cut the source, make them mainstream bring them under state supervision, it will happen with time. Patience is the key.

I am asking specifically what you are pointing at. None of our politician are what they should be, this one isn't alone and a lot better than ANPs or Achakzais.

Historical baggage is the rejection of Pakistan on the basis that Muslims of sub continent should stay together and be strong together. You know the history right? I am not talking about who is better out of the evil lot. Its about time to offload this baggage once and for all.

Not sure of Deoband in India but the Indian muslims that I have talked to are very Pro-Pakistanis. But you have the family, you would know better.

But I cant find anything other than lal-topi and other anti-deoband's verbal diarrhea that Deoband are RAW backed all they can point to is history before 1947 or the dead bodies of terrorists.

Turst me, the venom is astonishing and toxic. I dont want to go into details here but I do strongly beleive that the link between deoband India and their local, shall I say representatives, needs to be cut. Let the local deobandis create their own instutions under the supervision of state. Same goes for Shias.

Although this is not about me but what is Mullah in Qom?

This:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qom

 

[shhh]

Historical baggage is the rejection of Pakistan on the basis that Muslims of sub continent should stay together and be strong together. You know the history right? I am not talking about who is better out of the evil lot. Its about time to offload this baggage once and for all.

So that is what you are talking about. Well we have Mullahs that were against the idea of Pakistan and we have Mullahs that are in favor, both in deoband and other sects.

And both of them had strong points.

Obviously, we won.

I dont remember Fazalul Rehman opposing the idea of Pakistan, his father was very Pro Pakistani.

Turst me, the venom is astonishing and toxic. I dont want to go into details here but I do strongly beleive that the link between deoband India and their local, shall I say representatives, needs to be cut. Let the local deobandis create their own instutions under the supervision of state. Same goes for Shias.

Local deobands already run a local Madarassa, their links with Indian deobands does not mean anything more than symbolic links, they have links with Saudia and Ahl-e-Hadiths too. There are anti-Pakistan elements that happen to be deoband but that is a coincidence, the largest deoband madarassa in Karachi and Raiwand, is always under surveillance by agencies and they have found no clue against it (thats the reason it has not been closed down, agencies have closed 100s of Madarasas).

How do you define "supervision of state".

This:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qom

View attachment 324768

OK, as I dont know much about it, I wouldn't indulge in that discussion.

 

[The Eagle]

Agreed ... Research done by the Pakistan based Social Policy and Development Center (SPDC) revealed that only 6% of madrassa students cite religious reasons for attending madrassas, while 89% cited economic reasons (The State of education Report, 2002-03, SPDC, 2003, p.161).

The government can increase its Education budget and provide financial aid to these students and encourage them to join public schools instead ..

BUT

Madrassas are not under the control of govt. and they receive heavy foreign funding, They are independent and they don't have to rely on govt. for anything . Article 20 (concerning Fundamental Rights) of Pakistan's constitution states :

(b) Every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions.


Without amending the constitution, it is almost impossible for the government to bring Madrassas under "effective" control of the state ... And even a "talk" of amending any Islamic provision of the constitution draws a huge public outrage in Pakistan . (As we saw during Musharraf's era) ..



What do you suggest ?

We are almost close to come by mutual consent of Madressah under a governing body to look after their affairs while supervised by State body that may consist of them ulema as well. Hurdle or I would say a barrier for the time being to finalize these reforms, is that most of the or the heads of these institutions wanted to be referred under the provincial law and provincial government as per previous allocation of them and is not a big issue though we are moving in right direction in this area as well. Also, these reforms includes the clause as the students of these Madressah would be taught with school education as well, if I am not wrong, must up-to matric level. Ch. Nisar Ali Khan, Interior Minister, has played a major rule for these reforms and carried-on the proceedings after 2012 progress.

 

[M. Sarmad]

We are almost close to come by mutual consent of Madressah under a governing body to look after their affairs while supervised by State body that may consist of them ulema as well. Hurdle or I would say a barrier for the time being to finalize these reforms, is that most of the or the heads of these institutions wanted to be referred under the provincial law and provincial government as per previous allocation of them and is not a big issue though we are moving in right direction in this area as well. Also, these reforms includes the clause as the students of these Madressah would be taught with school education as well, if I am not wrong, must up-to matric level. Ch. Nisar Ali Khan, Interior Minister, has played a major rule for these reforms and carried-on the proceedings after 2012 progress.

Source please

 

[ebrahym]

Deoband Madrassahs (and their ideology), pose an existential threat to the state of Pakistan.

sir u do realize that targetting a particular sect is gonna make things worse
we are already at breaking point we can not afford it can we?

 

[The Eagle]

Source please

I using cell phone ATM however, got one here to share.

http://nation.com.pk/national/14-Jul-2016/accord-on-madrassa-reforms-struck

There would be or may be mistake in my previous post however you can go through the link and update yourself rightly while ignoring any misquote in my post. I viewed this news few days back and shared my views based upon my memory.

 

[M. Sarmad]

sir u do realize that targetting a particular sect is gonna make things worse
we are already at breaking point we can not afford it can we?

We must call a spade a spade

And I am not targeting a particular sect for their religious beliefs. Their political beliefs are extremely dangerous for the state of Pakistan. When 82 % of the Deoband Madrassa students see Taliban as their role model for Islamizing Pakistan, and when 70 % of our Madrassas are run by Deoband, don't you think that it DOES pose a very serious threat to our country; an existential one, ? especially when our establishment is patronizing Deoband militants for short-term gains .. We're headed for Self Destruction.

I using cell phone ATM however, got one here to share.

http://nation.com.pk/national/14-Jul-2016/accord-on-madrassa-reforms-struck

There would be or may be mistake in my previous post however you can go through the link and update yourself rightly while ignoring any misquote in my post. I viewed this news few days back and shared my views based upon my memory.

It says "The government will introduce an act of parliament for the purpose .. " ... Let's see. But I don't think this will happen ...... ever.... Well, not under PMLN government at least

 

[ebrahym]

We must call a spade a spade

And I am not targeting a particular sect for their religious beliefs. It's their political beliefs that are extremely dangerous for Pakistan. When 82 % of the Deoband Madrassa students see Taliban as their role model for Islamizing Pakistan, and when 70 % of our Madrassas are run by Deoband, don't you think it poses a grave threat to our country; an existential one, especially when our establishment does patronize Deoband militants for short-term gains .. We're headed for Self Destruction

sir whats true is true and can not be neglected
but pretty sure this is not what can work in this country
we know the reality of MQM and ANP but still they are in parliment
if we sack them riots start
the biggest threat we have is our political perties invaded by foreign agency not restricting to RAW only
the best defence we can have is an educated mindset and just poll

 

[The Eagle]

It says "The government will introduce an act of parliament for the purpose .. " ... Let's see. But I don't think this will happen ...... ever.... Well, not under PMLN government at least

An accord and consent was must before introducing such ACT hence progress.

As I said, we are almost there while on other hand not because of PMLn government but this was a long due since Zardari tenure and gained pace in last 1 1/2 year so thanks to the many other reasons described under NAP though Ch. Nisar (the only sane Pakistani among those leaguees) deserves appreciation.

 

[M. Sarmad]

sir whats true is true and can not be neglected
but pretty sure this is not what can work in this country
we know the reality of MQM and ANP but still they are in parliment
if we sack them riots start
the biggest threat we have is our political perties invaded by foreign agency not restricting to RAW only
the best defence we can have is an educated mindset and just poll

Bro, Extremism/Terrorism (and not India) is the greatest threat to Pakistan.


http://www.dawn.com/news/775781/pakistan-army-sees-internal-threats-as-greatest-security-risk

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...be-a-greater-threat-than-india-survey.353266/


Our internal fault lines run deep. Foreign enemies are only successfully and repeatedly exploiting our weaknesses..

An accord and consent was must before introducing such ACT hence progress.

As I said, we are almost there while on other hand not because of PMLn government but this was a long due since Zardari tenure and gained pace in last 1 1/2 year so thanks to the many other reasons described under NAP though Ch. Nisar (the only sane Pakistani among those leaguees) deserves appreciation.

I seriously doubt if the Accord on madrassa reforms was struck (as being claimed) . Anyway, as I said earlier, let's wait and see when (and if) this act of parliament is actually introduced by the government ...

 

[Crying wolf]

http://zalmayx.blogspot.com/2016/07/pakistan-ruined-afghanistan-myths-and.html?m=1
A good read

 

[Super Falcon]

Army has to clean traitors first if you close Nexus of Indian agents in Pak parliments u winning a war

Purify the top brass which is hurdle for peace

 

[M. Sarmad]

I dont remember Fazalul Rehman opposing the idea of Pakistan, his father was very Pro Pakistani.



.

Pro - Pakistani ??

But didn't Maulana Mufti Mahmud, the father of Maulana Fazlur Rehman, declare in 1971, “Thank God we were not part of the sin of making Pakistan." ??

So that is what you are talking about. Well we have Mullahs that were against the idea of Pakistan and we have Mullahs that are in favor, both in deoband and other sects.

And both of them had strong points.

The universal opposition of virtually every significant religious group in Undivided India, indeed the entire Muslim religious establishment to Jinnah`s Pakistan movement and the Muslim League cannot be reconciled with any idea of religious origins of Pakistan. This is just one of many paradoxes that anyone who thinks of that the true reason for the creation of Pakistan was to establish a religious 'Islamic state', must unravel.


https://defence.pk/threads/ulema-and-pakistan-movement.305745/