They Will Always Need Pakistan

[That Guy]

Sir, those are more claims than facts. Let's see what facts can you present to support your claim that "PA IS a superior military force.to anything the Arabs can offer".

Success in similar operations. Like I said, SWAT and NWA/SWA are similar to ones being conducted by the Arabs in Yemen, and we can clearly see the results (PA has been largely successful, the Arab coalition, so far has not). These aren't random claims, these are facts.

The Arab military forces have zero experience, and they're suffering for it. High casualty rates, hesitance to use ground forces in any meaningful operation, relying mainly on air operations to clear Opfor (which seems to be failing miserably). The coalition has failed to push back the houthis, and instead are basically stalemated at no man's zone, while the Houthis continue to take vast swaths of land in other areas of Yemen, expanding their operational efficiency.

Swat was a similar situation, where the enemy was on the door step to the capital, yet they were halted and pushed back in a very short amount of time. It was so successful, the ttp have not recovered fully to this very day, and have little presence in Swat.

This is history.

 

[VCheng]

Success in similar operations. Like I said, SWAT and NWA/SWA are similar to ones being conducted by the Arabs in Yemen, and we can clearly see the results (PA has been largely successful, the Arab coalition, so far has not). These aren't random claims, these are facts.

The Arab military forces have zero experience, and they're suffering for it. High casualty rates, hesitance to use ground forces in any meaningful operation, relying mainly on air operations to clear Opfor (which seems to be failing miserably). The coalition has failed to push back the houthis, and instead are basically stalemated at no man's zone, while the Houthis continue to take vast swaths of land in other areas of Yemen, expanding their operational efficiency.

Swat was a similar situation, where the enemy was on the door step to the capital, yet they were halted and pushed back in a very short amount of time. It was so successful, the ttp have not recovered fully to this very day, and have little presence in Swat.

This is history.

Sir, do you really think that Yemen is comparable to Swat and FATA? Let's establish that premise first before we can judge who is successful in doing what.

 

[I M Sikander]

Success in similar operations. Like I said, SWAT and NWA/SWA are similar to ones being conducted by the Arabs in Yemen, and we can clearly see the results (PA has been largely successful, the Arab coalition, so far has not). These aren't random claims, these are facts.

The Arab military forces have zero experience, and they're suffering for it. High casualty rates, hesitance to use ground forces in any meaningful operation, relying mainly on air operations to clear Opfor (which seems to be failing miserably). The coalition has failed to push back the houthis, and instead are basically stalemated at no man's zone, while the Houthis continue to take vast swaths of land in other areas of Yemen, expanding their operational efficiency.

Swat was a similar situation, where the enemy was on the door step to the capital, yet they were halted and pushed back in a very short amount of time. It was so successful, the ttp have not recovered fully to this very day, and have little presence in Swat.

This is history.

I agree with your point.
But yemen isnt like swat and NW and SW.

These are pakistani areas, whereas saudis are invaders in yemen. They have attacked yemen just like uncle sam.
Houtees didnt attack saudia arab. It was saudia who indulge in yemen internal matter.

 

[VCheng]

I agree with your point.
But yemen isnt like swat and NW and SW.

These are pakistani areas, whereas saudis are invaders in yemen. They have attacked yemen just like uncle sam.
Houtees didnt attack saudia arab. It was saudia who indulge in yemen internal matter.

A more suitable comparison would be if Pakistan invaded Afghanistan.

 

[I M Sikander]

Sir, those are more claims than facts. Let's see what facts can you present to support your claim that "PA IS a superior military force.to anything the Arabs can offer".

Begging by arabs for PA clearly shows which army is superior and why.
The arabs knows pakistan army and air force. We have trained arab armies for deacdes.

 

[That Guy]

Sir, do you really think that Yemen is comparable to Swat and FATA? Let's establish that premise first before we can judge who is successful in doing what.

Very similar. A mix of open rural and tight heavily populated urban areas, with enemy forces hidden among civilian population. I'd say that PA faced a tougher challenge than the Arab coalition is currently.

PA, with less sophisticated weapons, used what it had to completely decimate enemy forces. In Yemen, air strikes are used, but no follow up ground operation is conducted. The Arabs are falling for the same trap Israel did in Lebanon: Relying to heavily on air power, and using ground forces at a minimal. The difference here is that the Israelis quickly learned from their mistake (even if it wad too late), the coalition seems to be still hopeful that their air campaign will be successful at eliminating major Opfor CnC, without any sort of massive ground operation being needed.

 

[That Guy]

I agree with your point.
But yemen isnt like swat and NW and SW.

These are pakistani areas, whereas saudis are invaders in yemen. They have attacked yemen just like uncle sam.
Houtees didnt attack saudia arab. It was saudia who indulge in yemen internal matter.

I'm talking about in terms of operational capability, not geopolitical reality.

 

[VCheng]

Very similar. A mix of open rural and tight heavily populated urban areas, with enemy forces hidden among civilian population. I'd say that PA faced a tougher challenge than the Arab coalition is currently.

PA, with less sophisticated weapons, used what it had to completely decimate enemy forces. In Yemen, air strikes are used, but no follow up ground operation is conducted. The Arabs are falling for the same trap Israel did in Lebanon: Relying to heavily on air power, and using ground forces at a minimal. The difference here is that the Israelis quickly learned from their mistake (even if it wad too late), the coalition seems to be still hopeful that their air campaign will be successful at eliminating major Opfor CnC, without any sort of massive ground operation being needed.

The difference in tactics that you describe is due to the different goals of both campaigns. Given that, no conclusion can be made regarding comparative performance. Indeed, PA's casualties are far higher for this reason alone. It needs to clear and then hold on to territory, whereas the SA has no need for that, since it will probably rely on political maneuvering to secure its long term goals.

 

[I M Sikander]

Very similar. A mix of open rural and tight heavily populated urban areas, with enemy forces hidden among civilian population. I'd say that PA faced a tougher challenge than the Arab coalition is currently.

PA, with less sophisticated weapons, used what it had to completely decimate enemy forces. In Yemen, air strikes are used, but no follow up ground operation is conducted. The Arabs are falling for the same trap Israel did in Lebanon: Relying to heavily on air power, and using ground forces at a minimal. The difference here is that the Israelis quickly learned from their mistake (even if it wad too late), the coalition seems to be still hopeful that their air campaign will be successful at eliminating major Opfor CnC, without any sort of massive ground operation being needed.

Wars are win by troops on grounds.

Saudi and allied forces have insulted their reputation by showing reluctance in ground operation on fear on casualties.
They should fight like a soldier or better end this useless and unending war.

 

[sady]

I hope you can see the bitter irony in your own statement.



My point remains that it is incorrect to compare performance of Armies when the circumstances are so different. The OP fails in its basic premise, utterly.

So your point being no two armies can ever be compared? Tell me a comparison of two armies based on conflict they were in?

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Very similar. A mix of open rural and tight heavily populated urban areas, with enemy forces hidden among civilian population. I'd say that PA faced a tougher challenge than the Arab coalition is currently.

PA, with less sophisticated weapons, used what it had to completely decimate enemy forces. In Yemen, air strikes are used, but no follow up ground operation is conducted. The Arabs are falling for the same trap Israel did in Lebanon: Relying to heavily on air power, and using ground forces at a minimal. The difference here is that the Israelis quickly learned from their mistake (even if it wad too late), the coalition seems to be still hopeful that their air campaign will be successful at eliminating major Opfor CnC, without any sort of massive ground operation being needed.

Don't forget that it's just not Saudia but its multiple countries who are fighting together against a common enemy. By now they should had brought the Houthis to their knees.

 

[sady]

Well it is sad but it does not need a rocket scientist to know the fighting capabilities of Arabs these days, it will be actually blessing in disguise that now they willhave to fight their own war and may get some real time experience. The arabs who were once proud warriors, are now just a disappointment.

 

[That Guy]

The difference in tactics that you describe is due to the different goals of both campaigns. Given that, no conclusion can be made regarding comparative performance. Indeed, PA's casualties are far higher for this reason alone. It needs to clear and then hold on to territory, whereas the SA has no need for that, since it will probably rely on political maneuvering to secure its long term goals.

Except that PA had far fewer casualties than the Arabs have in the same time span, within these situations.

As for goals, the houthis are looking for a political end, as they don't want to actually rule Yemen, they want to be similar to hezbullah of Lebanon. The Saudis consider the Houthis as an illegitimate political and military force. Their lack of ground operations has nothing to do with political maneuvering, but a lack of confidence of success, and a fear of high casualties.

Wars are win by troops on grounds.

Saudi and allied forces have insulted their reputation by showing reluctance in ground operation on fear on casualties.
They should fight like a soldier or better end this useless and unending war.

Ending the war is no longer an option, as it would be considered a victory for Iran, and would decrease Gulf influence globally. It would also justify Pakistan's stance, and make the Arabs even more dependent on Pakistani security. They can't afford to quit.

Don't forget that it's just not Saudia but its multiple countries who are fighting together against a common enemy. By now they should had brought the Houthis to their knees.

Agreed. This entire conflict shows just how unprepared the coalition was, and how their own arrogance has probably cost them a complete decisive crushing victory. If anything, Pakistan will be the real winner at the end of the conflict.

 

[Hyperion]

It's our duty to protect the holy lands, not some regimes, mayors or self appointed kings.

Our role is to protect Makkah and Medina not Arabia / Saudi Arabia / Laden Arabia / Wahab Arabia / Bush Arabia / Obama Arabia / Nawaz Arabia / Imran Arabia / Zardari Arabia / Dajjal Arabia etc etc.

 

[Yousafzai_M]

I hope you can see the bitter irony in your own statement.



My point remains that it is incorrect to compare performance of Armies when the circumstances are so different. The OP fails in its basic premise, utterly.

I don't think he is comparing the armies to point out which one is better. Its about the experience in actual battle which Pakistan Army does have (fortunately or unfortunately) in abundance, compared to that of Saudi Arabia.

Second point is that of the will to fight, Saudi Arabia (fortunately) doesn't have a 10 times bigger and richer enemy on its border while we have had it right from the start. Pakistan Army because of that is more militarised, and so are the general public as you can see on the forum here.

Its comparable to the situation in US for example where they take pride in their troops but in Europe, the majority of people would go 'what army?'